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Just how many people hate Windows 8?

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#721 Rickkins

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  • Joined: 04-April 07
  • OS: Windows 8, Desktop Mode
  • Phone: Galaxy S3

Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:44

Guess the rules don't apply to some. :|

 

 

If you disagree with Windows 8 being the best you are wrong and fool because you are stuck in a rut and dont try new things therefore you dont know what is best.



#722 PGHammer

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  • Location: Accokeek, MD
  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:12

I have less than 40 apps installed at this time(I have had many more in the past, but I have streamlined...)

 

Thing is, everything is alphabetized.... how can ya possibly go wrong...???

And how can that possibly be considered "broken"...??

 

As long as one can read, and knows the alphabet, one should be ok...

Then the StartScreen (and its keyboard-driven search) should, if anything, be easier - not harder; its triggered by the Windows logo key (present on pretty much any keyboard that is twelve years old or less unless it's from Apple) - if you know the name of the application, you can drill down directly to that individual *twig* entirely via the keyboard, using your mouse ONLY to click on the result.  Fewer mouse movements and a lot faster than relying on the Mark 1 Mod 0 eyeball-driven search on a Start menu.  It's the sort of thing that Index Server (and the Indexing service that replaced it) was supposed to bring to the Start menu (and it DID bring it to Explorer and the command line - CHKDSK, among other command-line executables, ties into it).  That is easily THE biggest benefit the StartScreen brings - and touch has nothing to do with it.



#723 Orange Battery

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  • Joined: 09-March 04
  • Location: London

Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:27

Win 8.1 has made some good progress in making the OS functional again, but it is no where near as useful as it used to be, 

 

I know this is a stupid example but today someone at work told me how much she hated her new laptop because it couldn't do the basics.  It turned out that she was a former XP user that had got a Win 8 laptop.  She couldn't reduce her windows to the taskbar by clicking on the open item in the taskbar anymore and she couldn't view her photos without opening a modern UI app which she felt was lacking in any function,

 

I'm not fan of 8, 8.1 is still a pain but omg MS are foolish. 

 

As much as I like to innovate the spreadsheets and apps that I produce at work, I know that you have to keep some of the basics, and then add to them, not just change them for changes sake.

 

MS pay their staff so much more than I get - how do their team not realise this????

 



#724 +warwagon

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    Only you can prevent forest fires.

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:33

and causes a less stressful computing experience. 

926.gif



#725 moeburn

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  • Location: Toronto, Ontario

Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:02

Within the "nerd" set, there a few vocal types that don't like change, it's best if we ignore them instead of making them feel like their antiquated views matter when they don't

 

Why is it that if it's good for you, and not good for other people, its because they don't like change?  I love change.  hate Windows 8 (except for the speed improvements).  I'm the kind of guy that will upgrade my OS not because I need to, or because it's better, but because I love tinkering around with all the new changes they've made, learning how to use the different UI and features, and this is the first time I have ever not enjoyed it.  

 

Windows 8 doesn't just change features, it removes them.  And when you remove things that people have grown to love and use for years, and replace them with things that no one ever asked for or wanted, people are going to be upset.  And if that's all it were, we would just stick with Windows 7, but its faster, and we want the speed improvements without the reduction in the UI features!



#726 Enron

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    Windows for Workgroups

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  • OS: Windows 8.1 U1
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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:07

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics



#727 moeburn

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:09

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.



#728 Auditor

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  • Joined: 16-May 10
  • Location: Alberta, Canada

Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:13

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics

Is that what they hypothetically teach in your stats class.



#729 moeburn

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:15

370,000 people like Windows 8.

46 million hate it.

 

Source: Better Statistics



#730 +warwagon

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    Only you can prevent forest fires.

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  • Location: Iowa

Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:16

370,000 people hate Windows 8.

46 million like it.

 

Source: Statistics

 

I think it's the other way around.



#731 PGHammer

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  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:18

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?



#732 f0rk_b0mb

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:35

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?

 

 

You want a list of stuff MSFT removed from 8 that was in 7? Here you go: http://www.msfn.org/...d-in-windows-8/



#733 moeburn

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:48

moeburn, exactly what OTHER than the Start menu and Aero did you lose from Windows 7?

 

That is as plain a question as can be asked.  It is, in fact, a question I asked ALL the critics as far back as the Consumer Preview of Windows 8.  Not one of you has, however, answered it yet!

 

Aero itself is an aesthetics issue.  QuickLaunch and Taskbar pinning remain.  (Both are in Windows 8.1 as well - neither is going anywhere.)  Windows Virtual PC has been replaced with Hyper-V (which it, to put it bluntly, MUCH better in terms of usability than even VPC was in the pre-Microsoft days).  Other than the two items I noted, what's gone?

 

This is what's gone:

 

● Start Menu.
● Built-in (Microsoft provided) DVD playback in Windows Media Player will not be available on the Windows 8 platform, even with addition of the Media Center Pack.
● Device Manager no longer shows Non-Plug and Play Drivers or hidden devices. The "Devmgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices=1' environment variable has no effectImage
● Applications can no longer programmatically configure, change or query file associations or set themselves during installation as the default for a file type or protocol!
● Many commands are missing on the Ribbon which were there on Explorer command bar like Compatibility Files, View Remote Printers etc and others for special folders and namespace extensions. They just forgot to add these to these commands!
● The "Compatibility" tab for an application's properties no longer includes 'Windows 2000' and 'Windows NT 4.0' modes. You will be forced to use Application Compatibility Toolkit to set these OS modes.
● The menu bar and command bar (toolbar) in Windows Explorer have been removed and replaced with the Ribbon interface. Keyboard usability IMHO of the Ribbon is poor because in a menu, the first letter of any menu command or Alt+keyboard combination key is easier to read sequentially as it is placed in a row either horizontally or vertically. Mouse usability of the Ribbon and discoverability of commands is also poor, because unlike in a menu, where you can switch from one menu to another without clicking again, the Ribbon tabs do not activate unless you click again. The File menu also showed context menu commands but the File button on the Ribbon does not show these. Commands in the menu can be static (always available) irrespective of the location you are at in Explorer or they can be dynamic like the File menu. In contrast, commands on the Ribbon are all contextual meaning you have to navigate to a certain location to use that Ribbon command. The Ribbon is not customizable, only the Quick Access Toolbar is customizable but its usability is poor because it uses tiny 16 x 16 icons! (So much for a touch-friendly OS).
● The ability to boot directly to the desktop and not load the Metro components in memory is not there. Items in various startup locations (Registry, startup folder etc) are all loaded with a delay of few seconds with no way to load them instantly.
● The Lock screen is the place where you can now display custom background instead of the Logon screen, but unlike the Logon screen, there seems to be no way to programmatically change or cycle through a group of images for the Lock screen background. It must be set manually by the user from PC settings on the Start screen.
● Running Internet Explorer purely in 64-bit mode is not possible unless Enhanced Protected Mode is enabled which disables all addons not compatible with EPM. Otherwise, 64-bit IE10 opens 32-bit tabs.
● Search option to use natural language search has been removed.
● File operations like Rename, Delete can no longer be undone for UAC-protected locations
● Security Essentials settings for configuring default actions or real-time protection have been removed. (Security Essentials is now built-in as Windows Defender)
● In a dual boot scenario, the ability to directly boot into another OS besides Windows 8 is slowed down because the new Windows 8 boot shell/loader reboots to load the other operating system.
● Windows Update settings for showing notifications and allowing all users to install updates have been removed. Windows Update no longer notifies with a balloon notification that there are new updates available.
● Sound events for 'Exit Windows', 'Windows Logon' and 'Windows Logoff' are removed
● People Near Me P2P API is removed
● WinHelp has been completely discontinued. No download will be available.
● MSConfig's Startup tab has been killed and replaced by the Task Manager's Startup tab that doesn't have the 'Location' column which was useful for example to know if the process started from HKCU or HKLM.
● Previous Versions for Shadow Copies is removed. The half-baked replacement is the File History feature which is only for certain file types (documents, music, videos and pictures) in Libraries, desktop and browser favorites. Previous Versions worked for any generic file type in any folder. File History does not even support EFS-encrypted files! File History is supposed to replace both "Previous Versions for Shadow Copies" as well as "Windows Backup and Restore" and it doesn't do 100% of either of the features it replaces!
● Advanced Appearance settings which let you adjust colors, sizes and fonts are removed
● Explorer status bar removes the ability to show important details. It is now a private undocumented control (DirectUI) so it also doesn't allow Explorer addons like Classic Shell to show information like free disk space, total size of items without selection, computer zone, infotip information as it could on a standard status bar control.
● Explorer: Ability to enable both Details pane and Preview pane simultaneously in Explorer for display of file metadata as well as preview, or, Details pane to be always shown and only the Preview pane toggled is gone
● Flip 3D is gone
● Chkdsk when run at startup does not display any information about file system repairs besides % complete. This screen with scanning and correction details is gone when Chkdsk runs at startup and replaced by just a % complete.
● Pen, Ink and Touch Input Desktop features, including the The Tablet Input Panel (TIP) are no longer included. Some buttons ('num', 'sym' and 'web) are removed from the Handwriting input panel and UI changes to it require more clicks for example to switch from handwriting to keyboard, or access the editing commands (join, split, delete). It is now touch-friendly but no longer stylus-friendly. Desktop tablet features are replaced by a "simplified" touch keyboard.
● Network Map feature and some network profile management UI (setting a network as Private, Public, customizing the network name and icon etc) from Network and Sharing Center is missing
● Memory addresses and other technical information has been removed from the Windows 8 bug check screen (BSOD)
● The new Task Manager is missing many features of the old one: http://social.techne...c8-c39833aff90e
● View Available Networks (VAN) UI has been crippled with access to the most important dialog: the Network's Status window removed. The VAN UI now covers the notification area icons unnecessarily and the Metro look is out of place on the Aero desktop.
● The AutoPlay dialog removes the option to always open a particular program based on the file type
● The Open With dialog breaks the NoInternetOpenWith and NoFileAssociate Group Policies and browsing for a program with the redesigned Open With dialog requires three clicks instead of just one.
● The Windows Error Reporting dialog for reporting/debugging crashes does not save the state of "View details"
● Windows CardSpace is not installed even after installing .NET 3.0/3.5
● The keyboard shortcut for Windows Mobility Center has been removed. Previously, Win+X brought it up, now it brings up the power user context menu.
● Some remoting apps that use mirror drivers or some features of mirror drivers for remoting scenarios, accessibility, or desktop duplication may no longer be supported due to the changes required to be made to Desktop Window Manager.
● Some Audio Compression Manager (ACM) components are broken resulting in Sound Recorder being unable to do format conversion.
● Subsystem for UNIX-based applications is completely removed



#734 PGHammer

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  • Joined: 31-August 03
  • Location: Accokeek, MD
  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:59

You want a list of stuff MSFT removed from 8 that was in 7? Here you go: http://www.msfn.org/...d-in-windows-8/

And other than DVD playback, how much does the removal of any of it, let alone all of it, matter to everyday users?  (In fact, the question can even be asked of DVD playback, since even Windows 7 required third-party software, such as Cyberlink PowerDVD or even VLC, to playback DVDs properly.)  Features three and four to get their chop called are gone due to Device Manager *itself* being better at device detection than was the case previously, along with improvements to the underpinnings on which Computer Management (and Device Manager) relies on.  (Here's an example - my desktop motherboard is the ASUS P5G41-M LX2/GB; in addition to the various SATA and USB ports, it also has a single two-channel ATAPI (read - IDE) port.  However, because I have that port switched *off* in the motherboard's BIOS (due to non-use), why would (or should) Computer Management (or Device Manager) show it?  If I turn that port back in in the BIOS, both Computer Management, and Device Manager, will show it, and anything connected to it.  Otherwise, what is the point?)

Lack of Windows 200/NT4 compatibility features - that is throughout the entire common codebase;  those same features had their chop called in Server 2012.  Possibly important to niche users - everyday users could care less.

The menubar is merely hidden - not gone; hitting the Alt key unhides the menu (identical to what has been the case with Internet Explorer since version 8).

The vast majority (if not the entire list) of features your link refers to are far from important to most users - in fact, most aren't even important to outlier users.



#735 OP Dot Matrix

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  • OS: Windows 8.1
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Posted 05 July 2013 - 21:19

We just want our Windows 7 features back, without having to go back to it's slower speed.  That's all.  Then we'll shut our mouths and leave you all alone.

 

Windows 8 has all the features of Windows 7, then some. If you can't get used to a freakin Start Screen, well then, that's your issue, not Microsoft's. Perhaps you could ask them how removing the Program Manager went, and see how much they care.

 

 

This is what's gone:

 

● Start Menu.
● Built-in (Microsoft provided) DVD playback in Windows Media Player will not be available on the Windows 8 platform, even with addition of the Media Center Pack.
● Device Manager no longer shows Non-Plug and Play Drivers or hidden devices. The "Devmgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices=1' environment variable has no effectImage
● Applications can no longer programmatically configure, change or query file associations or set themselves during installation as the default for a file type or protocol!
● Many commands are missing on the Ribbon which were there on Explorer command bar like Compatibility Files, View Remote Printers etc and others for special folders and namespace extensions. They just forgot to add these to these commands!
● The "Compatibility" tab for an application's properties no longer includes 'Windows 2000' and 'Windows NT 4.0' modes. You will be forced to use Application Compatibility Toolkit to set these OS modes.
● The menu bar and command bar (toolbar) in Windows Explorer have been removed and replaced with the Ribbon interface. Keyboard usability IMHO of the Ribbon is poor because in a menu, the first letter of any menu command or Alt+keyboard combination key is easier to read sequentially as it is placed in a row either horizontally or vertically. Mouse usability of the Ribbon and discoverability of commands is also poor, because unlike in a menu, where you can switch from one menu to another without clicking again, the Ribbon tabs do not activate unless you click again. The File menu also showed context menu commands but the File button on the Ribbon does not show these. Commands in the menu can be static (always available) irrespective of the location you are at in Explorer or they can be dynamic like the File menu. In contrast, commands on the Ribbon are all contextual meaning you have to navigate to a certain location to use that Ribbon command. The Ribbon is not customizable, only the Quick Access Toolbar is customizable but its usability is poor because it uses tiny 16 x 16 icons! (So much for a touch-friendly OS).
● The ability to boot directly to the desktop and not load the Metro components in memory is not there. Items in various startup locations (Registry, startup folder etc) are all loaded with a delay of few seconds with no way to load them instantly.
● The Lock screen is the place where you can now display custom background instead of the Logon screen, but unlike the Logon screen, there seems to be no way to programmatically change or cycle through a group of images for the Lock screen background. It must be set manually by the user from PC settings on the Start screen.
● Running Internet Explorer purely in 64-bit mode is not possible unless Enhanced Protected Mode is enabled which disables all addons not compatible with EPM. Otherwise, 64-bit IE10 opens 32-bit tabs.
● Search option to use natural language search has been removed.
● File operations like Rename, Delete can no longer be undone for UAC-protected locations
● Security Essentials settings for configuring default actions or real-time protection have been removed. (Security Essentials is now built-in as Windows Defender)
● In a dual boot scenario, the ability to directly boot into another OS besides Windows 8 is slowed down because the new Windows 8 boot shell/loader reboots to load the other operating system.
● Windows Update settings for showing notifications and allowing all users to install updates have been removed. Windows Update no longer notifies with a balloon notification that there are new updates available.
● Sound events for 'Exit Windows', 'Windows Logon' and 'Windows Logoff' are removed
● People Near Me P2P API is removed
● WinHelp has been completely discontinued. No download will be available.
● MSConfig's Startup tab has been killed and replaced by the Task Manager's Startup tab that doesn't have the 'Location' column which was useful for example to know if the process started from HKCU or HKLM.
● Previous Versions for Shadow Copies is removed. The half-baked replacement is the File History feature which is only for certain file types (documents, music, videos and pictures) in Libraries, desktop and browser favorites. Previous Versions worked for any generic file type in any folder. File History does not even support EFS-encrypted files! File History is supposed to replace both "Previous Versions for Shadow Copies" as well as "Windows Backup and Restore" and it doesn't do 100% of either of the features it replaces!
● Advanced Appearance settings which let you adjust colors, sizes and fonts are removed
● Explorer status bar removes the ability to show important details. It is now a private undocumented control (DirectUI) so it also doesn't allow Explorer addons like Classic Shell to show information like free disk space, total size of items without selection, computer zone, infotip information as it could on a standard status bar control.
● Explorer: Ability to enable both Details pane and Preview pane simultaneously in Explorer for display of file metadata as well as preview, or, Details pane to be always shown and only the Preview pane toggled is gone
● Flip 3D is gone
● Chkdsk when run at startup does not display any information about file system repairs besides % complete. This screen with scanning and correction details is gone when Chkdsk runs at startup and replaced by just a % complete.
● Pen, Ink and Touch Input Desktop features, including the The Tablet Input Panel (TIP) are no longer included. Some buttons ('num', 'sym' and 'web) are removed from the Handwriting input panel and UI changes to it require more clicks for example to switch from handwriting to keyboard, or access the editing commands (join, split, delete). It is now touch-friendly but no longer stylus-friendly. Desktop tablet features are replaced by a "simplified" touch keyboard.
● Network Map feature and some network profile management UI (setting a network as Private, Public, customizing the network name and icon etc) from Network and Sharing Center is missing
● Memory addresses and other technical information has been removed from the Windows 8 bug check screen (BSOD)
● The new Task Manager is missing many features of the old one: http://social.techne...c8-c39833aff90e
● View Available Networks (VAN) UI has been crippled with access to the most important dialog: the Network's Status window removed. The VAN UI now covers the notification area icons unnecessarily and the Metro look is out of place on the Aero desktop.
● The AutoPlay dialog removes the option to always open a particular program based on the file type
● The Open With dialog breaks the NoInternetOpenWith and NoFileAssociate Group Policies and browsing for a program with the redesigned Open With dialog requires three clicks instead of just one.
● The Windows Error Reporting dialog for reporting/debugging crashes does not save the state of "View details"
● Windows CardSpace is not installed even after installing .NET 3.0/3.5
● The keyboard shortcut for Windows Mobility Center has been removed. Previously, Win+X brought it up, now it brings up the power user context menu.
● Some remoting apps that use mirror drivers or some features of mirror drivers for remoting scenarios, accessibility, or desktop duplication may no longer be supported due to the changes required to be made to Desktop Window Manager.
● Some Audio Compression Manager (ACM) components are broken resulting in Sound Recorder being unable to do format conversion.
● Subsystem for UNIX-based applications is completely removed

 

And how much are you missing all this stuff? Probably slim to none.

 

 

Microsoft is ready to move on with new things. They're not going to shoot themselves in the foot, or weigh themselves down with baggage just for a crying few.