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[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1365263265' post='595620848']
There is no inherit benefit to being always online [b]on a console[/b], it should be the users choice if they wish to play connected to the internet or not. People move houses, people have internet outages, people have unreliable connections (even satellite broadband), people travel on holiday/army service/to visit relatives who do not have internet access, people have dialup, people live in developing countries, people live under broadband monopolies (australia with high prices/low caps?) and the people's list goes on.

Mix those occurrences with the majority of adults working in full time jobs, 9-5 or more each week, and yeah missing out on your small daily/weekly 30 minute window of gaming due to 1~3 of the internet outages you get a year IS going to **** you off if all you planned to do was play a SP game. It was unnecessary for you to miss out, you've been playing single player games for 20 years with or without your internet access, and now you can't? For what good?

It is one further step closer to completely removing ownership of a product you've bought by enforcing draconian DRM. It's fine saying you cannot use PSN/XBL without agreeing to conditions, but you cannot use your console at all unless you have internet access?

It's an increasingly grim time to be a gamer [b]if[/b] this goes through/becomes standard. You are a very ignorant person if you believe the world revolves around you, your home and your internet connection. Gaming was brought about to try and involve gamers of all ages and locations, not you and your United States of America (not a dig at America, it just seems as if large amounts OF Americans forget about the rest of the world).

Lastly if this all turns out to be untrue, it was not simply a waste of time, this gives these companies a clear indication of how annoyed they will make lots of customers if they turn to such anti-consumerist approaches.
[/quote]

This is a waste of time. For all the reasons you mention and then some, people can and will speak with their wallets should a company choose to go this route. Spending this amount of time bantering on about a rumor is a waste because they've already made up their mind. When they actually say "your console needs to be always on", that's a more appropriate time to spend all this time discussing it. And you're absolutely right that there's no vast benefit to implementing this, which is why I believe the rumor isn't true.

Wait until they actually say something, then come out and say whatever you want. Or better yet, just don't buy the console. Until then, this is just fanning unnecessary flames.
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[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1365275782' post='595621168']
This is a waste of time. For all the reasons you mention and then some, people can and will speak with their wallets should a company choose to go this route. [b]Spending this amount of time bantering on about a rumor is a waste because they've already made up their mind[/b]. When they actually say "your console needs to be always on", that's a more appropriate time to spend all this time discussing it. And you're absolutely right that there's no vast benefit to implementing this, which is why I believe the rumor isn't true.

Wait until they actually say something, then come out and say whatever you want. Or better yet, just don't buy the console. Until then, this is just fanning unnecessary flames.
[/quote]

A lot can change in 6 months. If not completely changing, being modified in some way or another. The better decision is to not enforce always-online for everything, and leave it up to publishers to decide on their own. That way if EA pull another SimCity it's EA that get the flak, not Microsoft, as Microsoft didn't enforce always-online on a hardware or software level, it's EA's choosing.

As I finished with earlier, even if untrue, such a ruckus like this cannot be created without either a rumour, or something being true. It's far too hard to gather such a crowd and media attention on this level without some flames. It would be good if we could get massive anti-DRM campaigns out of sheer determination of pro-consumerists rallying together, but that doesn't grab the journalists attention. Therefore whether it's true or not it's good we've had such a blow up as you cannot argue our games industry isn't being pushed further into DRM, and if not now, someone will have full on hardware based DRM in their plans at some point.

It is better to scare pre-launch of something like this, rather than it being implemented and the backlash coming afterwards. It's always harder to backpedal than it is pre-emptively change a potentially precarious decision.

Voting with your wallet is ever becoming a "scapegoat", gamers invest heavily in their favourite platforms and it is simply not easy to give up a brand or platform all your friends and favourite franchises are on. You could argue it's easier to boycott a franchise, or even a whole developer/publisher, but boycotting one of the three console makers, it's not a decision that's easy, especially if most of your eggs are in the basket you're telling someone not to continue on with.
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Posted

Microsoft also has not denied that next Xbox will require you to sacrifice kittens to start a game, what's everyone's opinion on that?
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[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1365286389' post='595621364']
Microsoft also has not denied that next Xbox will require you to sacrifice kittens to start a game, what's everyone's opinion on that?
[/quote]

I'd like to think people can separate the rational and possible from the completely ridiculous. The rumours have come about from what most people will agree to be perfectly reasonable rumour fodder - Many sources, developers, multiple mentions over the past year, the MS employee's behaviour, other publishers/developers forcing always online on us, etc.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1365286389' post='595621364']
Microsoft also has not denied that next Xbox will require you to sacrifice kittens to start a game, what's everyone's opinion on that?
[/quote]

Not my kitten they ain't. :p
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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1365286389' post='595621364']
Microsoft also has not denied that next Xbox will require you to sacrifice kittens to start a game, what's everyone's opinion on that?
[/quote]

At least 2 game publishers have discussed the rumor and what it might mean to gaming, also suggesting it would be for DRM, in interviews. The nature of the tweet out of MS didn't help nor does their non-denial. This has been rumored for over a year. So it has traction and is definitely worth discussing.

My guess is Microsoft is trying to gauge the acceptance level, much like I believe they often leak their own internal builds over the years.

[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1365275782' post='595621168']
Spending this amount of time bantering on about a rumor is a waste because they've already made up their mind.
[/quote]

Not a waste of time. People with common interests enjoy discussing things, including hypotheticals, what-ifs, and rumors.

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Posted

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1365301509' post='595621764']


At least 2 game publishers have discussed the rumor and what it might mean to gaming, also suggesting it would be for DRM, in interviews. The nature of the tweet out of MS didn't help nor does their non-denial. This has been rumored for over a year. So it has traction and is definitely worth discussing.

My guess is Microsoft is trying to gauge the acceptance level, much like I believe they often leak their own internal builds over the years.



Not a waste of time. People with common interests enjoy discussing things, including hypotheticals, what-ifs, and rumors.
[/quote]
Show me at least one clear source which says games won't work without an Internet connection. Here is a hint, there is none.
And you know what, I will trust Major Nelson over any rumors and especially one started by kotaku.
[quote]
[

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1365111741' post='595617416']
Source: [url="http://kotaku.com/the-next-xbox-will-require-an-internet-connection-to-st-470062456"]http://kotaku.com/th...to-st-470062456[/url]
[/quote]

Kotaku is the worst gaming news site on the planet even though this is a big new story in the future do not listen to a single word they type .

they are also avaid haters of anything nintendo - and even CEO of EA has had issues with this site in the past just a heads up

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Posted

I remember that I played Nintendo wii like Mario Kart Wii, when I played it over the internet, but it get kicked off while I played it sometimes. I can imagine that internet will kick people's server often on next xbox and PS4 when you play it over the internet.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1365309722' post='595621884']
As I said, let's wait until Microsoft says it clearly because AFAIK even Sony hasn't made it clear yet with used games.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games"]Sony tells Eurogamer: PlayStation 4 will not block used games[/url]

[url="http://uk.gamespot.com/news/playstation-4-will-play-used-games-6404263"]PlayStation 4 will play used games[/url]

[url="http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sony-ps4-won-t-require-always-on-internet-connection/0111247"]Sony: PS4 won't require 'always-on' internet connection[/url]

[quote name='TurboShrimp' timestamp='1365309990' post='595621894']
Kotaku is the worst gaming news site on the planet even though this is a big new story in the future do not listen to a single word they type .

they are also avaid haters of anything nintendo - and even CEO of EA has had issues with this site in the past just a heads up
[/quote]

Edge were actually the breakers on this story - [url="http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/"]http://www.edge-onli...and-new-kinect/[/url]

They were right on everything pre-PS4 announcement, except the 8GB.

There's also this

[quote]
[color=#000000][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]Xbox 720 rumours are flying thick and fast, and it seems the always-online rumour is getting more credibility.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]Adam Orth, a Microsoft creative director, was found Tweeting about how [url="http://www.gamechup.com/xbox-720-always-online-requirement-defended-by-microsoft-creative-director/"]always-online requirement isn

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Posted

Andagain, those Sony/PS4 announcements mean nothing. nothing how they dance around the issue.

they merely say it "won't block" used games, not that "it won't have used games blocking". basically applying the same logic you guys are applying to the MS rumor I can categorically say that all evidence points to the PS4 having non mandatory used games blocking service, that while not mandatory will be used by virtually all of them.

same thing with their online statement. but hey some people will read rumors with those horse blinder shades on walking down a one way street.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1365338646' post='595622252']


[url="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games"]Sony tells Eurogamer: PlayStation 4 will not block used games[/url]

[url="http://uk.gamespot.com/news/playstation-4-will-play-used-games-6404263"]PlayStation 4 will play used games[/url]

[url="http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sony-ps4-won-t-require-always-on-internet-connection/0111247"]Sony: PS4 won't require 'always-on' internet connection[/url]



Edge were actually the breakers on this story - [url="http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/"]http://www.edge-onli...and-new-kinect/[/url]

They were right on everything pre-PS4 announcement, except the 8GB.

There's also this




[url="http://www.gamechup.com/developer-on-xbox-720-always-online-all-i-can-say-is-be-sure-to-pay-your-isp-bills/"]http://www.gamechup....your-isp-bills/[/url]
[/quote]
Yeah, none of those links refute what I said.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1365309722' post='595621884']

Show me at least one clear source which says games won't work without an Internet connection.
[/quote]

Then it wouldn't be a rumor would it. And I have no idea who actually started it over a year ago. The point is, the rumor has enough traction to be discussion worthy. Trust me, all this negative publicity, if it was not something MS was considering, they would have clearly denied it. Instead, their staff actually makes insulting remarks towards customers saying basically if we do, deal with it.

If you don't believe it, fine. But constantly telling others not to discuss it or it's not worth discussion is kind of silly especially given where we are, an online tech forum where speculation and hypothetical is what gives the forum life. There are pessimist, and optimists, and then there are those whose contribution is to tell others not to voice their opinion.

You're a smart guy, why don't you voice an opinion on what if MS did this? Or Sony for that matter. I personally do believe it is something MS is considering, and I also believe based on the negative feedback across the world from resellers, to publishers, to of course, gamers, that they will not go forward with it this generation. If they do, I would think MS wants to actually exit the console gaming business. Despite well crafted annual financial reports, it's not secret Shareholders have not been pleased with this particular unit over the last few years. With the growth of free-to-play and so many pretty cool games needing Kickstarter programs, I'm not so sure it's the most lucrative business to be in at this time.

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1365338951' post='595622258']
Andagain, those Sony/PS4 announcements mean nothing. nothing how they dance around the issue.

they merely say it "won't block" used games, not that "it won't have used games blocking". basically applying the same logic you guys are applying to the MS rumor I can categorically say that all evidence points to the PS4 having non mandatory used games blocking service, that while not mandatory will be used by virtually all of them.

same thing with their online statement. but hey some people will read rumors with those horse blinder shades on walking down a one way street.
[/quote]

That's a stretch in reasoning, even for a rumor. But, the only way for any blocking to work is for both major consoles to include it. If only one does, the one that does will lose this generation of consoles, and that means they will cease to exist. At this point, neither can afford to lose a generation by a significant margin.

And you can kill a rumor with this much traction, with publishers and resellers chiming in. Only Microsoft can do that, and they have actually chosen not to. Not only that, but what they have said through employees, would actually tend to suggest they are testing the waters to see how such a move would be received.

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Posted

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1365339284' post='595622280']


Then it wouldn't be a rumor would it. And I have no idea who actually started it over a year ago. The point is, the rumor has enough traction to be discussion worthy. Trust me, all this negative publicity, if it was not something MS was considering, they would have clearly denied it. Instead, their staff actually makes insulting remarks towards customers saying basically if we do, deal with it.

If you don't believe it, fine. But constantly telling others not to discuss it or it's not worth discussion is kind of silly especially given where we are, an online tech forum where speculation and hypothetical is what gives the forum life. There are pessimist, and optimists, and then there are those whose contribution is to tell others not to voice their opinion.

You're a smart guy, why don't you voice an opinion on what if MS did this? Or Sony for that matter. I personally do believe it is something MS is considering, and I also believe based on the negative feedback across the world from resellers, to publishers, to of course, gamers, that they will not go forward with it this generation. If they do, I would think MS wants to actually exit the console gaming business. Despite well crafted annual financial reports, it's not secret Shareholders have not been pleased with this particular unit over the last few years. With the growth of free-to-play and so many pretty cool games needing Kickstarter programs, I'm not so sure it's the most lucrative business to be in at this time.
[/quote]
I have voiced my opinion that I don't really care and in any case I am not likely to buy next Xbox at launch (I didn't get a 360 until early 2007).
About the topic at hand, I don't mind it being discussed but as of now it is being discussed in absolutes which is rather strange given that rumors are based on dev kits, which rarely represent retail hardware at this stage.
The guy who tweeted like a moron, I think he was just being dumb and given he works for Studios, should have very little to do with hardware and design. I'd take Major Nelson's reddit posts over any of these rumors. I know that in the end he is just a PR guy but still more trustworthy.
Tl,dr; I don't think MS will do a 3min check but I think they might go for a more steam like model. It has worked well with XBLA and GOD.

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Posted

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1365339574' post='595622280']
That's a stretch in reasoning, even for a rumor. But, the only way for any blocking to work is for both major consoles to include it. If only one does, the one that does will lose this generation of consoles, and that means they will cease to exist. At this point, neither can afford to lose a generation by a significant margin.

And you can kill a rumor with this much traction, with publishers and resellers chiming in. Only Microsoft can do that, and they have actually chosen not to. Not only that, but what they have said through employees, would actually tend to suggest they are testing the waters to see how such a move would be received.
[/quote]

That's what I've been saying since the start, MS will only block used games if Sony also does it, OR if EA (and eventually a few other major publishers) give them exclusives or timed exclusives while they're the only ones blocking used games.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1365338646' post='595622252']
There's also this




[url="http://www.gamechup.com/developer-on-xbox-720-always-online-all-i-can-say-is-be-sure-to-pay-your-isp-bills/"]http://www.gamechup....your-isp-bills/[/url]
[/quote]

By your logic I could say the rumor has less credibility because Major Nelson, the figurehead of Xbox, said yesterday that spending all this time talking about this rumor is a waste of time.
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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1365338951' post='595622258']
Andagain, those Sony/PS4 announcements mean nothing. nothing how they dance around the issue.

[b]they merely say it "won't block" used games, not that "it won't have used games blocking". basically applying the same logic you guys are applying to the MS rumor I can categorically say that all evidence points to the PS4 having non mandatory used games blocking service, that while not mandatory will be used by virtually all of them.[/b]

same thing with their online statement. but hey some people will read rumors with those horse blinder shades on walking down a one way street.
[/quote]

While there might be truth in that, there is a difference between not enforcing and enforcing on a system wide level.

If you do a bit of research on how the used games market in Japan works, you'll see exactly why Sony aren't implementing a universal used games block. MS don't really care about Japan, so if they do it won't matter to them that performance in Japan will sink even more.

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Posted

Paul Thurrot

[quote][color=#000000]1) Always-on connectivity is indeed part of the next Xbox, and it was interesting to see this guy confirm that unofficially.[/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]2) He could have been more tactful, but let

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1365351826' post='595622534']
Paul Thurrot



[/color][/size][/font][/color]

Lots more here - [url="http://winsupersite.com/xbox/xbox-vnext-and-always?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter"]http://winsupersite...._medium=twitter[/url]
[/quote]
The only important point as I said previously,

[quote]Folks, the next Xbox is going to require an always-on Internet connection.[b] I don

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Posted

If it's allowing you to install 3rd party apps from a store like on windows and windows phone then having a internet connection is needed or you'll be missing out on apps, but also other services that could tie into it also. That's got nothing to do with needing to be on in order to do anything at all. So in the end connections are being made without enough info.

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Posted

I still can't believe how many people are willing to make decisions about consoles based on rumors. Wait till they officially tell you what it is then make a decision. Changing your mind 500 times before its release is pointless as is using stupid crap like this as flak to hate on a console.

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Posted

So basically if the rumors are right the next xbox will suck, and if they aren't then those rumors will be irrelevant and the next xbox will turn out to be a nice device, am I right?

Not sure why the couple of threads about this thing are so long.
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Posted

I still don't see how the next xbox will suck if it's true..

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Posted

I've just been made aware apparently XBLIG's require you to be online at all times? Just some food for thought for those who won't even discuss this as a rumour as it's somehow [i]completely[/i] unthinkable.

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Posted

and ?

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