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Kotaku: Next Xbox will require online connection to start games


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#121 shakey

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 19:18

WAH???????

I think you have that backwards there, sport. Blu-ray disks are FAR more susceptible to scratches than DVDs.


We would all benifit more if you would keep your opinions to yourself, and not hurt those who wish to actually learn something.
There is a special coating applied to blurays that make them more durable than DVD's. It makes it so that if they do somehow even get scratched, it doesn't mess up the data as well.


#122 jerzdawg

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 19:44

WAH???????

I think you have that backwards there, sport. Blu-ray disks are FAR more susceptible to scratches than DVDs.

this statement is about as valid as this always on rumor

#123 HawkMan

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:10

We would all benifit more if you would keep your opinions to yourself, and not hurt those who wish to actually learn something.
There is a special coating applied to blurays that make them more durable than DVD's. It makes it so that if they do somehow even get scratched, it doesn't mess up the data as well.


Tha social coating is plain ceramic. And when you scratch a DVD you don't damage the data either. On a DVD the data foil is sandwiched between to thick layers of plastic. They had to put the ceramic layer on BDs because the data foil was unprotected and very easily damaged.

Both are pretty equally resilient. While the ceramic is tougher,it's also a lot thinner and once you damage it, the disk is pretty much dead. DVD while they scratch easier, it generally doesn't matter, and you have to go REALLY hard at it to damage the data foil.

#124 OP +Audioboxer

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:34

Blu Rays are more durable than DVDs, its not up for debate, and it has NOTHING to do with PS3 vs 360.......

Also this story on always online has caught on like wildfire, all over the internet and you can easily see what consumers think about the idea. No spinning that.

#125 shakey

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:34

If you think DVD's are on the same level as Blurays in terms of scratch resistance, you are very misinformed.

#126 MorganX

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:41

I hope this is not one of those moments where consumers would be angry at this but when the console launches they'll cave in and buy it anyway


I don't think so. Those type of consumers would be clueless, until they have it and get disconnected and can't even start a game. They still won't associate it with DRM.

Those who know, and the console gaming community is a little more savvy than you average consumer, really won't. These guys will blackball a publisher into bankruptcy if they feel the publisher screwed up a franchise man.

#127 MorganX

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:51

Here is what Francis thinks of this nonsense...


Hilarious ... Doritos Ads ... hahahaha

#128 HawkMan

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:53

If you think DVD's are on the same level as Blurays in terms of scratch resistance, you are very misinformed.


That's not what I said, I said their total resiliance is about the same. the ceramic surface holds up to a lot more damage, but when it goes it fails totally, a DVD can be scratched to hell and back and still be read and never have the data layer damaged.

#129 MorganX

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 20:54

What noone wants is the always online crap.


Not exactly, what no one wants, is to be required to be online at all times or the console will cease to function until you re-establish a connection to big brother.

#130 spenser.d

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 21:32

Blu Rays are more durable than DVDs, its not up for debate, and it has NOTHING to do with PS3 vs 360.......

Also this story on always online has caught on like wildfire, all over the internet and you can easily see what consumers think about the idea. No spinning that.


Still just a rumor.

#131 ozzy76

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 21:33

Still just a rumor.

We're aware.

#132 spenser.d

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 21:36

We're aware.


You wouldn't think it given how people are attacking this.

#133 ozzy76

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 21:40

You wouldn't think it given how people are attacking this.

I think people are just getting antsy to hear from MS about what their next console will be like now that Sony has partially revealed their hand. Waiting sucks.

#134 giantpotato

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 22:50

Tha social coating is plain ceramic. And when you scratch a DVD you don't damage the data either. On a DVD the data foil is sandwiched between to thick layers of plastic. They had to put the ceramic layer on BDs because the data foil was unprotected and very easily damaged.

Both are pretty equally resilient. While the ceramic is tougher,it's also a lot thinner and once you damage it, the disk is pretty much dead. DVD while they scratch easier, it generally doesn't matter, and you have to go REALLY hard at it to damage the data foil.


The coating has nothing to do with physically protecting the data layer. Both discs have error-correcting bits built-in. Let's say you scratch a DVD, and 100KB become unreadable. There are going to be some bits that are still readable adjacent to the scratch, so the error-correcting algorithms can still calculate what data is under the scratch. Because Blu-Ray is much more dense, a scratch of the same size would wipe out ~500KB of data with a much higher chance of also wiping out the error-correcting bits, so there's no way to calculate what's under the scratch. Because of this they invented a coating to stop scratches on Blu-Rays.

#135 HawkMan

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 23:17

in the early days, before the PS3 and before BD was really public and there wasn't really any BD movies. but you could buy insanely overpriced BD readers and players. 3-4+ thousand dollar range. The BD disks didn't have the ceramic layer, and the BD disks didn't handle scratches AT ALL due to the extremely thin protection over the data layer. it was only marginally better than CD's which have the data foil unprotected on top of the plastic.

and of course they have error correction built in. error correction doesn't do you much good when you get a scratch in the data layer. a hair thing scratch on a BD disks, would cover hundreds of tracks with of it's scratched circularly. That means you can't read from advacent tracks, and depending on the length of the scratch, anythign from tens to hundreds megabytes of data could be gone. and if you scratch the data layer, there's not buffing or polishing, there's no data under the scratch, you scratched the data away. it's not there anymore.

So, yes, the coating was added to protect the data layer. and it's very effective at it's job, it's very hard to scratch or damage a bluray disk. DVD have a 50/50 sandwich with the data layer in the middle, BD is more like 90-95/10-5. And this was a big problem with the early prototypes. and one of the big concerns in the BD vs HD-DVD wars until the ceramic was added. granted there was also a lot more concerns like the fact BD wasn't finished, was fare more expensive to make and so on... but Sony had to much power.