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Pardon my excellent pbrush skills...

[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZaJrNPd.png[/img]
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The last thing I'd want would be for Microsoft to reintroduce the Start Menu. I'd much rather see it work on improving the usability issues with the Start Screen and Metro apps, which could be easily addressed by a) making the taskbar always visible and displaying running Metro apps, and b) allowing Metro apps to run in a window.
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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1365328871' post='595622064']
The last thing I'd want would be for Microsoft to reintroduce the Start Menu. I'd much rather see it work on improving the usability issues with the Start Screen and Metro apps, which could be easily addressed by a) making the taskbar always visible and displaying running Metro apps, and b) allowing Metro apps to run in a window.
[/quote]

I respect your choice but many of us prefer the non-metro UI for practical reasons. Metro UI has proven to be an annoyance to those who enjoy working out of the box. Now with Metro rumored as being the only choice we will have in Windows Blue, I can imagine that Microsoft is basically telling its userbase: "If you don't like this, f-off". This is especially bad when Metro did not go as well as expected, Windows 7's OS support won't last forever, Ubuntu is finally beginning to be supported by AAA tech companies such as Valve, AMD and Dell.

Top technology CEOs share my opinion. Windows 8 is a failure and there is no going back unless some big changes are made from the inside.

Windows is trying to create a unified platform but will fail so miserably. I hope they see this because the day those arrogant executives get laid-off, they will remember how they thought they could tell us what to do, just like Apple (watch them die a slow death).
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Posted

[color=#2f4f4f][b]Moved to Windows Discussion.[/b][/color]

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Posted

"Let Microsoft know what we want"
Too bad that, as every programmer knows, users don't actually know what they want. Listening directly to any user feedback that isn't regarding some very specific issue is the key to the biggest failures.
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Comon Neowin guys! Can't you see that this post is intended to start another flame war? If the OP wanted to post this, he could have in any one of the numerous Windows 8 bashing posts, but to give it a thread of its own is just inciting the same old flame war over and over again.
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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1365330310' post='595622086']
"Let Microsoft know what we want"
Too bad that, as every programmer knows, users don't actually know what they want. Listening directly to any user feedback that isn't regarding some very specific issue is the key to the biggest failures.
[/quote]

Apple didn't listen directly to user feedback. Look at it now. Arrogantly losing millions every minute. $423? haha

[quote name='Mikeffer' timestamp='1365330394' post='595622090']
Comon Neowin guys! Can't you see that this post is intended to start another flame war? If the OP wanted to post this, he could have in any one of the numerous Windows 8 bashing posts, but to give it a thread of its own is just inciting the same old flame war over and over again.
[/quote]

So thread about an opinion is inciting a flame war? Welcome to the internet, where people share opinions. You also have to choice to click on links or not.
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Posted

[quote name='yo popcaan' timestamp='1365330760' post='595622094']
Apple didn't listen directly to user feedback. Look at it now. Arrogantly losing millions every minute. $423? haha
[/quote]
Not listening directly to user feedback doesn't mean not listening to user feedbacks at all. There are market researches, designers, consultants and analysts to filter the user input. Here's a [url="http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/108160"]nice related comic[/url]. And [url="http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell"]another one[/url].
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Posted

I'd argue that AAPL isn't losing their millions because of not listening but due to economics being some bubble chain reaction phantom pyramid bullcrap that somebody just made up.
If St. Jobs didn't have to visit the Old Hob, it would keep growing.

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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1365331111' post='595622098']
Not listening directly to user feedback doesn't mean not listening to user feedbacks at all. There are market researches, designers, consultants and analysts to filter the user input. Here's a [url="http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/108160"]nice related comic[/url]. And [url="http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell"]another one[/url].
[/quote]

Well, looks like Google knows how to do stuff. At least they don't come up with excuses. I still think Apple is arrogant like Steve Jobs, no question there.

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Posted

Awkward moment when 99% "classic UI" is still in Windows 8 so I don't really see the point?
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Posted

[quote name='yo popcaan' timestamp='1365331653' post='595622106']
Well, looks like Google knows how to do stuff. At least they don't come up with excuses. I still think Apple is arrogant like Steve Jobs, no question there.
[/quote]
Stock Android has been horrible for a long while, it was mostly the manufacturers that knew what they were doing before Google started getting things right. Microsoft had their hands tied on Windows 8 because tablets keep eating away PC market and since the trend didn't seem to slow down they had to release W8 in a rush to let the PC manufacturer put on sale similar products. The reason people are forced to Metro is to push the adoption of the W8 Marketplace and therefore push developers to release more Windows 8 metro apps that can be used on tablet-form PCs. Microsoft probably knows better than any else what they did and why users are extremely angry with how bad the Metro interface is on desktop/laptops, but it was either screwing the users or losing even more market/manufacturers due to tablets.

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I think that ubuntu is really taking advantage of all this Windows 8 bad implementation, and that's wonderful, if linux could unite all their forces primarily onto that OS... is almost as if the infrastructure is already set, steam is there, amd is really helping and the gaming community always like to stay onto the latest of the latest, which currently is win8 or win7, direct x crumbling (a bit) opengl rising... it seems the days of one OS suppressing others are counted.

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Microsoft needs to move on and evolve from the classic Windows. Technology isn't evolving backwards, it moves forwards, and that's what needs to happen with Windows and Office. Adding back all the legacy junk that has been removed wouldn't fix anything, and only add a billion and one more problems.

The desktop is still present and accounted for, in Windows 8, and it will be in Windows 9 as well. No one is forcing you to use Metro apps, but you can't argue that the Start Screen isn't beneficial to all PC users, because it finally breaks free of the cramped menu system that should have been killed after XP. Pin your desktop apps to it, and carry on. It's quite simple, really.
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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1365332762' post='595622140']
Microsoft needs to move on and evolve from the classic Windows. Technology isn't evolving backwards, it moves forwards, and that's what needs to happen with Windows and Office. Adding back all the legacy junk that has been removed wouldn't fix anything, and only add a billion and one more problems.

The desktop is still present and accounted for, in Windows 8, and it will be in Windows 9 as well. No one is forcing you to use Metro apps, but you can't argue that the Start Screen isn't beneficial to all PC users, because it finally breaks free of the cramped menu system that should have been killed after XP. Pin your desktop apps to it, and carry on. It's quite simple, really.
[/quote]

You don't actually know Microsoft's plans, so don't talk as if anything is set in stone. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Start Menu return in Windows 9. The opening poster's point is a good one and plenty of us would like to see it happen.
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The Metro UI should only be an option when someone has a touchscreen-enabled device/monitor. Otherwise the Desktop UI is what should automatically load. The Start screen in Windows 8 is useless to me and the UI itself is an extreme waste of space (big blocky "tiles").
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[quote name='Windows Nashville' timestamp='1365333303' post='595622146']
You don't actually know Microsoft's plans, so don't talk as if anything is set in stone. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Start Menu return in Windows 9. The opening poster's point is a good one and plenty of us would like to see it happen.
[/quote]

If the Start Menu isn't coming back in Windows 8.1, it certainly isn't coming back in Windows 9.

[quote name='Elessar' timestamp='1365333597' post='595622156']
The Metro UI should only be an option when someone has a touchscreen-enabled device/monitor. Otherwise the Desktop UI is what should automatically load.
[/quote]

That would be quite a poor UX, as it's fairly clear in Windows 8.1 that Microsoft wants to move forward with the Metro UI/UX. I personally expect little development on the desktop going forward. There would be many consumers that would be missing out on the latest features, and not even know about it. Give it a few years, and touchscreens will be the norm.


Metro is the new norm, you can see it in every design coming out of Redmond. Expect it to be around for a bit.
[attachment=331214:Screenshot (5754).png]

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1365334262' post='595622168']
That would be quite a poor UX, as it's fairly clear in Windows 8.1 that Microsoft wants to move forward with the Metro UI/UX. I personally expect little development on the desktop going forward. There would be many consumers that would be missing out on the latest features, and not even know about it. Give it a few years, and touchscreens will be the norm.
[/quote]
Err, not on desktops. Cripes I'm three feet away from my monitor, I'm not going to reach just to pick an option. I could get a Logitech T650 but I don't see the point since I have no issues with the SS on kb+m.

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[quote name='yo popcaan' timestamp='1365329437' post='595622078']I respect your choice but many of us prefer the non-metro UI for practical reasons. Metro UI has proven to be an annoyance to those who enjoy working out of the box. Now with Metro rumored as being the only choice we will have in Windows Blue, I can imagine that Microsoft is basically telling its userbase: "If you don't like this, f-off".[/quote]

The desktop [i]won't[/i] be removed in Windows Blue, as it's merely an update to Windows 8 - core features cannot simply be removed. Even in Windows 9 we won't see the desktop disappear because that would seriously damage Microsoft's position in the market place, though it may become more Metro-fied. There [i]are[/i] many issues with the implementation of Metro in Windows 8 but they can be addressed - the entire Start Screen doesn't have to be thrown away.

People seem to forget that the Start Menu was actually terrible. especially since Vista constrained it to a tiny fraction of the screen. As someone with a 30" 2560x1600 monitor it was [b]horrible[/b]: it didn't make use of the available real-estate; menus were truncated; icons were small; the included Windows applications dominated the most valuable part of menu (the top); the most-used space was unpredictable, as icons would appear and disappear without any user control. It was horribly outdated and didn't do what the user needed it to. Now the Start Screen definitely has its issues but it's a better starting point.

[quote name='yo popcaan' timestamp='1365329437' post='595622078']Ubuntu is finally beginning to be supported by AAA tech companies such as Valve, AMD and Dell.[/quote]

Yeah, but without gaming it's irrelevant. Valve [i]might[/i] be able to change that with Steam but that remains to be seen and will take the best part of a decade.

[quote name='yo popcaan' timestamp='1365329437' post='595622078']Windows is trying to create a unified platform but will fail so miserably. I hope they see this because the day those arrogant executives get laid-off, they will remember how they thought they could tell us what to do, just like Apple (watch them die a slow death).[/quote]

Well hello Mr Schadenfreude.
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Posted

[quote name='Windows Nashville' timestamp='1365333303' post='595622146']
You don't actually know Microsoft's plans, so don't talk as if anything is set in stone. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Start Menu return in Windows 9. The opening poster's point is a good one and plenty of us would like to see it happen.
[/quote]

You're also forgetting some of Microsoft's most powerful tools still remain on the desktop. Office and Visual Studio, among others. The desktop will still be present in Windows 9, just as it is in Windows 8.


[quote name='Deranged' timestamp='1365334581' post='595622172']
Err, not on desktops. Cripes I'm three feet away from my monitor, I'm not going to reach just to pick an option. I could get a Logitech T650 but I don't see the point since I have no issues with the SS on kb+m.
[/quote]

I think that trend will disappear with time. As the kids of today become older, they're going to expect to be able to interact with their devices, like they do now with their parent's cell phones and tablets. It'll become impossible to sit x feet away from your screens anymore. Like it or not, this kind of interactivity is unavoidable as these kids grow older, and re-shape the market trends, and even develop new devices themselves, based on their childhood experiences.

Personally, I run two non touch monitors on my main machine, and even they're just a reach away.
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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1365335423' post='595622188']
I think that trend will disappear with time. As the kids of today become older, they're going to expect to be able to interact with their devices, like they do now with their parent's cell phones and tablets. Like it or not, this kind of interactivity is unavoidable as these kids grow older, and re-shape the market trends, and even develop new devices themselves, based on their childhood experiences.
[/quote]
I agree that change is inevitable, but if we're talking short term I don't see the traditional setup going away for at least three years. Even when you can fit a work/gaming machine into a tablet you'd still want a decent screen and kb+m for it for any heavy usage. Probably better speakers too heh.

Tech will keep shrinking, but usage patterns tend to change slowly.

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[quote name='ingramator' timestamp='1365331736' post='595622110']
Awkward moment when 99% "classic UI" is still in Windows 8 so I don't really see the point?
[/quote]
I don't agree with 99% but a true power user who knows windows well will know how to work around issues like no start menu. I agree that the start screen is not the start menu, but it wasn't intended to be. Learn your windows combination keys, many of them have been unchanged from version to version. Learn your basic commands to bring up control panel items, many of them have not changed from version to version.

Winkey + tab switches between metro apps

Winkey + r brings up the run prompt

Winkey + f brings up search

Ctrl + alt + esc brings up task manager

Winkey + l locks your computer

There are many more, this is just a short list of my commonly used shortcuts that take less time than clicking through menus to bring things up.

Get to the run prompt and type in control to get to the control panel

Ctrl + f4 in a metro app closes the metro app.

I could go on quite a bit.
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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1365335423' post='595622188']
I think that trend will disappear with time. As the kids of today become older, they're going to expect to be able to interact with their devices, like they do now with their parent's cell phones and tablets. It'll become impossible to sit x feet away from your screens anymore. Like it or not, this kind of interactivity is unavoidable as these kids grow older, and re-shape the market trends, and even develop new devices themselves, based on their childhood experiences.

Personally, I run two non touch monitors on my main machine, and even they're just a reach away.
[/quote]

So you are expecting people to sit within an easy arms reach away from their monitors? Optometrist love the idea. Big difference between smart phones/tablets and 22-27 inch monitors.

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[quote name='Deranged' timestamp='1365336012' post='595622200']
I agree that change is inevitable, but if we're talking short term I don't see the traditional setup going away for at least three years. Even when you can fit a work/gaming machine into a tablet you'd still want a decent screen and kb+m for it for any heavy usage. Probably better speakers too heh.

Tech will keep shrinking, but usage patterns tend to change slowly.
[/quote]

Agreed, it certainly isn't going to disappear overnight, but the shift is already beginning. Consumers are moving to new devices in droves, leaving behind many traditional setups that were common 10-15 years ago.

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[quote name='jjkusaf' timestamp='1365336578' post='595622212']
So you are expecting people to sit within an easy arms reach away from their monitors? Optometrist love the idea. Big difference between smart phones/tablets and 22-27 inch monitors.
[/quote]

Many people already do that. Why do you think this is a new thing?

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