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#46 MorganX

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:24

There's no denying that Microsoft's strategy for the current-gen has been incredibly successful and the Sony has had to work hard to get to where it has. However, Microsoft's policies have become increasingly arrogant - from its steadfast policy of charging developers to issue patches, to its poor treatment of indie developers, to the refusal to release games planned for PC on PC (Halo 3, Halo Wars, Gears Of War 2/3, etc) or timed exclusives (Alan Wake, GTAIV, etc) and now with strong rumours that it will require gamers to connect online before playing games on the X720. Meanwhile Sony has worked hard to mend its relationships with developers.

Personally I don't have any interest in consoles but I'd like to see Sony do better in this coming generation, as I think that would be better for gamers.


MS has done well. And IMO, PSN doesn't compare to XBL. But despite a one year lead and overwhelming lead in US, PS3 has outsold it worldwide. MS doesn't have a lot of room for mistakes that might cause any slip in US popularity next gen.


#47 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:32

MS has done well. And IMO, PSN doesn't compare to XBL. But despite a one year lead and overwhelming lead in US, PS3 has outsold it worldwide. MS doesn't have a lot of room for mistakes that might cause any slip in US popularity next gen.


While the PS3 has outsold the X360 worldwide that is primarily due to Japan, as Sony is a Japanese company. In western countries the X360 has been the stronger seller, especially in the US. Technically the Wii is the winner of this generation but sales numbers aren't everything.

#48 MorganX

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:44

While the PS3 has outsold the X360 worldwide that is primarily due to Japan, as Sony is a Japanese company. In western countries the X360 has been the stronger seller, especially in the US. Technically the Wii is the winner of this generation but sales numbers aren't everything.


I understand the Japan factor, but regardless, even with the significant US lead, PS3 still outsold with a year less of life. Sony will be in very good shape next generation if they make any meaningful gains in the US.

#49 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:59

I understand the Japan factor, but regardless, even with the significant US lead, PS3 still outsold with a year less of life. Sony will be in very good shape next generation if they make any meaningful gains in the US.


Everything I've seen so far suggests that Sony has a better chance at the next-gen, particularly if Microsoft is going to require online connectivity and bundle the Kinect with every SKU. The bundling of the Kinect takes away from the computing power and is a risky move, though it does open up some compelling gameplay advantages. But it's really Microsoft's lead to lose, rather than Sony's advantage to make.

#50 SnowMizer

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 23:21

Hey Audio, when are you going to post a story that is not "anti-MS" or "pro-Sony"? I've been waiting for years. You are like an internet crawler that is hunting for stories that put MS in bad light even if slightly. It figures why would you post the "always on" story from Paul Thurrot but conveniently omit his remarks against Sony because it put Sony in bad light.


He posted the same kind of crap last gen and has zero credibility to those who have been around for a while.

#51 spenser.d

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 23:31

That's a pretty sensationalist headline for what little evidence is actually there to back it up.

On a general level I doubt indie gaming makes much more of a dent this next generation on consoles than it did the last. What this article doesn't mention that others out of GDC do is that most of the 53% of those developers are developing for tablets and smartphones, not consoles. In any case, indie games aren't going to be a large impact on the bottom line for Sony or Microsoft, so while it's cool to get indie games and I'd expect to see more of them this next generation, I wouldn't expect any sort of indie explosion or expect that indie games sways sales much one way or the other.

#52 helios01

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 23:37

PlayStation isn't a closed platform to selected developers at all, check out this link on who can develop and publish games:
https://en-support.p...il/a_id/41/c/14

If you read my entire post, I do mention Sony's initiative to open up Vita and their mobile platforms which I thought of as a great idea but still under-developed. I'm referring to their consoles, which are still closed platforms.

#53 Defcon

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 23:44

Live is a huge platform, the promo ads on the dashboard alone are worth billions in revenue. MS sees nothing from advertising an XBLA game when it could sell the same space for an ad and get $$. So this is not surprising at all.

When XBLA came out, they had to court the developers and it was a win-win for everyone. Now Live is an established money maker and the situation is very different - MS can effectively tell a developer to go to hell and still have them crawling back, because it will make them money.

The simple fact is the indie devs need MS a lot more than they need indie games taking up valuable real estate on the dashboard. MS has been quite clear that Xbox is not just for gaming anymore.

#54 Growled

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 00:53

There is no proof of any of it but anyone who has been around for awhile knows how Microsoft is. They are sometimes not a nice company to deal with. If they do manage to **** off enough developers, they may be in for a rough haul.

#55 Andre S.

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:43

That's a pretty sensationalist headline for what little evidence is actually there to back it up.

On a general level I doubt indie gaming makes much more of a dent this next generation on consoles than it did the last. What this article doesn't mention that others out of GDC do is that most of the 53% of those developers are developing for tablets and smartphones, not consoles.

Independent studios don't develop for consoles in part because of the massive financial barrier of entry, and also in part because the development environment is so complex (especially PS3). With the right tools and licensing terms, there's no reason independent developers should continue to ignore consoles, it's just a matter of vision and execution on the part of Sony and Microsoft. So far what we've heard from Sony is very encouraging in that regard.

#56 +Anarkii

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:03

SO wheres the proof? all I see is 1 or 2 disgruntled developers who don't like the big bad Microsoft because they weren't treated like rockstars for their irrelevant product. That's far from "Developers Flocking". And xbox is a brand that makes Microsoft billions. Of course there is going to be a process before you can put your stuff on there. AND last I checked, Microsoft xbox 360 destroys the competition in software sales. Which developer wants to put his product on something that doesn't have the level of sales as xbox360?


As someone studying game design and who has contacts already in the game industry; both big developers and indie, I can confirm that the small studios and independent people are indeed no longer making titles for XBOX live. (At least here in Australia anyway).

OPs post pretty much summed it up. Microsoft makes it near impossible for indie dev's to get their stuff on Xbox Live. Sony on the other hand, have free software dev kits (note: SOFTWARE, not HARDWARE) so anyone can make games for their devices. Of course, big studios pay to get more complete versions of these software developer kits, but students like myself can easily download it and play with the tools to make a simple game.

#57 vcfan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:36

As someone studying game design and who has contacts already in the game industry; both big developers and indie, I can confirm that the small studios and independent people are indeed no longer making titles for XBOX live. (At least here in Australia anyway)


name them so we can verify this information. its easy to make unsubstantiated claims.

#58 Emn1ty

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 17:14

OPs post pretty much summed it up. Microsoft makes it near impossible for indie dev's to get their stuff on Xbox Live. Sony on the other hand, have free software dev kits (note: SOFTWARE, not HARDWARE) so anyone can make games for their devices. Of course, big studios pay to get more complete versions of these software developer kits, but students like myself can easily download it and play with the tools to make a simple game.

Iirc, you can do the same with XNA. You don't need a 360 kit to develop for it, especially since porting it is very easy from PC.

#59 HawkMan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 17:38

Clicking compile for Xbox in visual studio is hard stuff you know ;)

#60 Emn1ty

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 18:49

I have one more thing to add to this thread.

It doesn't matter what the development process is for a console or how good/bad the relationship between the hardware's company and the developer. Those things are definitely a factor, but the biggest factors are, plain and simple:
  • Can I make my game on their platform?
  • How many people will be able to get my game on their platform?
I'm sure number one will be possible and fairly simple for both consoles. So that leaves how many people OWN the console. That will come down to exclusives/AAA titles and UI /Software experience, not indie games. Its the big guys that move mountains, spend millions on advertising and hold huge launch events.