(Honest) Personal thoughts about windows 8 and MS in general

[Dot Matrix]

and some of us have said we like it. but another point being, MS calling out OEM builders because sales of THEIR product are dismal isn't an OEM's fault. It shows MS has taken notice, something is wrong and heads are turning since investors want their dividends when they are due at money time

OEMs making mediocre, no name hardware aren't to blame? :huh:

Why do you think Microsoft developed the Surface? If OEMs can't bother to make great hardware, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[chrisj1968]

OEMs making mediocre, no name hardware aren't to blame? :huh:

Why do you think Microsoft developed the Surface? If OEMs can't bother to make great hardware, they have no one to blame but themselves.

because it isn't cost effective if you being MS tell me Toshiba to build touchscreens and ask me to "EAT" thousands on systems that are killing me. I could never stay in business if I lost money on every system... not all OEM's make cheap systems. you get what you pay for.

I think you expect everyone to make top of the line systems.. in this global market.. profit margins are pretty darn thin for you to ask that..

[freak180]

and some of us have said we like it. but another point being, MS calling out OEM builders because sales of THEIR product are dismal isn't an OEM's fault. It shows MS has taken notice, something is wrong and heads are turning since investors want their dividends when they are due at money time

To be honest most OEM hardware suck. With that said, explains why I build my own workstations. So far the only ones that put effort in their hardware is Surface, Lenovo and asus imo.

[chrisj1968]

To be honest most OEM hardware suck. With that said, explains why I build my own workstations. So far the only ones that put effort in their hardware is Surface, Lenovo and asus imo.

I use to build my own until laptops started being powerful alternatives for my use. But some OEM's have lousy systems. but that doesn't answer as to the issue of how expensive touchscreen systems would cost them.. you probably bankrupted a majority if we went by your idea

Microsoft needed a quick band-aid to put something out there to keep the windows 8 train rolling.. hence Surface RT and PRO. But they might have had that planned before release of 8.But now they need surface to prop up the market

[Dot Matrix]

because it isn't cost effective if you being MS tell me Toshiba to build touchscreens and ask me to "EAT" thousands on systems that are killing me. I could never stay in business if I lost money on every system... not all OEM's make cheap systems. you get what you pay for.

I think you expect everyone to make top of the line systems.. in this global market.. profit margins are pretty darn thin for you to ask that..

But take a look at Nokia, they make great hardware at various price ranges and markets. They took the time to actually develop a line of products that have become a brand name, and it's paying off.

Now why can't others do that? Just because a low end system has to be affordable, doesn't mean it has to be complete junk.

[chrisj1968]

But take a look at Nokia, they make great hardware at various price ranges and markets. They took the time to actually develop a line of products that have become a brand name, and it's paying off.

Now why can't others do that? Just because a low end system has to be affordable, doesn't mean it has to be complete junk.

I like Nokia. Nokia might be the exception... they might have found it possible to fund R&D and develop such a system. But in the bigger picture... I think most weren't hip to the OS.

[ToneKnee]

Do we really need another topic?

[chrisj1968]

Do we really need another topic?

This isn't a windows 8 sucks or is great thread... so relax..... this is about windows8, surface and MS in the bigger sense

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

I think the Start Screen is the dumbest GUI ever created from Microsoft since Bob. Microsoft SHOULD have created two seperate operating systems, one for a tablet and one for a regular PC that uses a keyboard and mouse. There have been 1 OS for all devices in the past have not been sucessful! Windows 8 works fine, but the GUI is the big killer!

[chrisj1968]

MS has made a program to test if your system is compatible with 8. I have always said, they should have a part of the install whereby the install determines if you are a touchscreen system or not and install the right windows UI accordingly or even by choice...

anyway, MS can only blame themselves, it is their product, their responsibility.. can't blame you or I.

[Dot Matrix]

I think the Start Screen is the dumbest GUI ever created from Microsoft since Bob. Microsoft SHOULD have created two seperate operating systems, one for a tablet and one for a regular PC that uses a keyboard and mouse. There have been 1 OS for all devices in the past have not been sucessful! Windows 8 works fine, but the GUI is the big killer!

Dumbest? I think it's long overdue that PCs have an attractive dashboard to run off of. As resolutions get higher, the Start Menu become less useful.

[ViperAFK]

Dumbest? I think it's long overdue that PCs have an attractive dashboard to run off of. As resolutions get higher, the Start Menu become less useful.

could be argued that a fullscreen dashboard has even more diminishing returns than the start menu at higher resolutions.

[BajiRav]

In fact if WP8 OS was on a tablet, that would be pretty sweet. I would probably buy one.

I know you wouldn't. :p

[+Warwagon MVC]

I know you wouldn't. :p

Yes I actually would.

[BajiRav]

do we really need one more thread on this? :/

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

If Microsoft's customers don't want a particular food, Microsoft shouldn't force it dont their throats like this.

[fusi0n]

Dumbest? I think it's long overdue that PCs have an attractive dashboard to run off of. As resolutions get higher, the Start Menu become less useful.

I agree, I just prefer OSX's dock (easily resize) or Ubuntus Unitiy.

[chrisj1968]

do we really need one more thread on this? :/

look BajiRav. this thread isn't about if windows 8 is wonderful or sucks.. it is about what i was viewing as to what has happened with the whole thing from a marketing perspective. MS and OEM's aren't on the same page or same sheet of music as we say where I'm from... but I'm not talking specifically about whether 8 is good or bad either way.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Dumbest? I think it's long overdue that PCs have an attractive dashboard to run off of. As resolutions get higher, the Start Menu become less useful.

Of course you would disagree with him, you've shown that you can't be objective about Windows 8 in the slightest. Windows 8 can do no wrong.

In my case of hating on Windows 8, I can still find good things to say about it.

The start screen is great on tablets.

I love the new Explorer UI.

I like the new new check mark box to show hidden items right there on the ribbon.

I like the file copy dialog box.

[Emon]

You don't have to port it, unless it's a WP7 app, as WP8 and W8 share the same kernel. You can move apps to either platform by changing just a few lines of code.

That "few lines of code" change is what I am calling as porting. Why would you even have to do that? Why not write once and it works on all devices?

They came in late and had the chance to make the experience seamless for both users and devs which is not there yet. I know they are working on it but currently the experience does feel disjointed.

[+Warwagon MVC]

That "few lines of code" change is what I am calling as porting. Why would you even have to do that? Why not write once and it works on all devices?

They came in late and had the chance to make the experience seamless for both users and devs which is not there yet. I know they are working on it but currently the experience does feel disjointed.

If they had used WP8 on both tablet and phone it probably would work like that.

[BajiRav]

That "few lines of code" change is what I am calling as porting. Why would you even have to do that? Why not write once and it works on all devices?

They came in late and had the chance to make the experience seamless for both users and devs which is not there yet. I know they are working on it but currently the experience does feel disjointed.

That's not true even between iPad and iPhone. You do have to code for separate UIs and here we are talking about essentially different OS.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I think the Start Screen is the dumbest GUI ever created from Microsoft since Bob. Microsoft SHOULD have created two seperate operating systems, one for a tablet and one for a regular PC that uses a keyboard and mouse. There have been 1 OS for all devices in the past have not been sucessful! Windows 8 works fine, but the GUI is the big killer!

I disagree. The Start Menu was a very poor UI element, with its restricted horizontal area, nested hierarchy, truncated text, small icons, lack of customisation options, inability to display dynamic information, etc. It was poorly suited to those with high-resolution displays or touch-screens (not all of which are tablet users). In fact one of the reasons Windows 7 was so successful was because the superbar meant you no longer had to rely on the Start Menu - you could simply pin your most used items on the taskbar. The Start Screen addressed most of the aforementioned limitations; unfortunately in doing so it introduced limitations and frustrations of its own. One of the biggest issues with the Start Screen is the inability to access the taskbar to quickly switch between applications, as the Start Screen takes over.

The Start Menu is a dated UI element that isn't suited to modern computing. The Start Screen is far from a perfect replacement but it's a decent starting point. Going back to the past isn't the answer. Microsoft should work to unify the Metro and desktop experiences (e.g. displaying apps from both environments on the taskbar) and improve multi-tasking (e.g. making the taskbar always visible). It also needs a better solution than the Charm Bar, which is rather inelegant on the desktop and outright annoying with multi-monitor setups.

Some of the changes in Windows Blue will be welcomed by those who already use Windows 8 but they're not enough to win over ardent critics. I think the key is to increase the amount of flexibility that users have. Restoring the Start Menu isn't a viable solution but that doesn't mean that Microsoft couldn't allow the Start Screen to run in a limited mode (i.e. side-snapped or that only occupies a third of the screen). It would also be nice to see the right-click menu developed, particularly with power options (shutdown, restart, hibernate) - that would negate the need to use the Charm Bar on the desktop.

[chrisj1968]

That's not true even between iPad and iPhone. You do have to code for separate UIs and here we are talking about essentially different OS.

But you could even code xbox to work with Windows over all. I see MS converging their platforms. maybe not the same code but they can get the base of each to work with each other.

About windows blue. it is an entirely different OS all together. a whole different release

Windows Blue (Windows 8.1 and Windows RT 8.1) are to Windows 8 the way Mountain Lion (andthe other cat releases) are to Apple's OS X. Whether it's about colors or cats, these are new operating system releases.

link

interesting. an entirely different Os all together

article about Windows8 might make PC's less attractive..not me the article..http://www.neowin.ne...-shipment-drops

but this ties in with my OP..

So basically, Gartner believes it's not Windows 8 itself that's the problem but rather the price of touchscreen-based PCs that are too high, along with the fact that a limited number of those PCs have been shipped so far. PC makers who come out with cheaper touchscreen PCs with Windows 8 will do better in the second half of 2013, based on Gartner's forecast.

So OEM's saw it was too expensive and the bottom line wasn't there

[justmike]

I can't believe MS has lasted this long. The "need" for almost anything being placed on a local machine and not being streamed, should have been changed already. Eventually, there will only be the need for updating the OS as a cached browser in itself. Sharing any kind of media will eventually be a subscribed connection, because easy and cheap always wins when there are existing choices that do the same things for most buyers. Companies could gain in the past when they were not forced to replace computers as often as they must now. Cost and connectivity will drive everything, and MS knows it.