drm Gears of War designer:

[George P Global Moderator]

All I expect is that some features will require you be online, that's got nothing to do with playing games offline. But the fact you can have it stay connected even when "off" means that games like what bungee is making are now possible and work better.

[Skin]

Yup they are going to quickly rearchitect their entire next gen console software just because somebody leaked news about it. It perfectly makes sense because they have "delayed" the announcement by a whopping month.

Were you being sarcastic with that post. If so, please think for a moment... in no universe anywhere does the need to be online hinge on a re-architecture of the entire console software. It would be a tiny tweak to change things like that. Also, in no world does the fact someone leaked it mean anything in them having to do so. It is the fact that nearly everyone 'polled' hates it.

The point being made was that it speaks loudly that they fired the person, but didn't confirm or deny when the crap-storm and backlash (not just about the attitude, which was a smokescreen, but the always on feature). If a company was not going to do always on, they would ease fears as the fact of anti-marketing is eating this up, and killing their image already.

If you weren't being sarcastic, then OK, but you still took the wrong points out.

No, in fact in that case it only says that MS doesn't accept people speaking like jerks in a way that could be construed as official. he wasn't fired for what he said, but how he said it.

I think we have to disagree here. They had an opportunity to limit bad press, and they went with keeping their bad image out there, silly for a large company banking on the next big thing... hence, it speaks loudly about what they have cooking, and how they can spin it moving forward.

[HawkMan]

No they didn't the only opportunity they had was to fire a person that had no respect for the company he worked for and how he presented himself as an employee of that company.

[BajiRav]

The point being made was that it speaks loudly that they fired the person, but didn't confirm or deny when the crap-storm and backlash (not just about the attitude, which was a smokescreen, but the always on feature). If a company was not going to do always on, they would ease fears as the fact of anti-marketing is eating this up, and killing their image already.

I would get fired for speculating about my company's future products(forget unannounced) too, that's not an indicator of anything.

[Skin]

I would get fired for speculating about my company's future products(forget unannounced) too, that's not an indicator of anything.

:rolleyes:

[chrisj1968]

The title of this thread itself is alarming. the "deal with it" aspect begs me to ask.. why are people with this attitude even in business? just like a poster in a anti windows 8 thread said awhile ago.. windows 8 is the future.. deal with it... people are ludicrous

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I'm having a hard time seeing the next Xbox as requiring a persistent Internet connection. Microsoft isn't a U.S.-only company, and even though it may be possible in the U.S., it wouldn't be possible in many countries where the Xbox sells well.

it wouldn't even be possible in all places here in the US. my internet isn't the fastest and it goes out at least once a month (I have cox btw)

(this is actually faster then I usually get [especially the ping]usually i have a 40 to 70 ping)

[WelshBluebird]

Two reasons why always online is a bad thing:

1 - In many parts of even well connected cities, Internet connections are unreliable.

2 - As someone else posted in this thread, today / yesterday saw an Xbox live outage. These things are not that uncommon.

[BajiRav]

:rolleyes:

?

[spenser.d]

While it may not be the greatest idea at the moment, he's right you know. Our society is moving more and more towards completely connected homes, and we're not just talking about the obvious things like consoles, but that's what will come next because they're pretty much already there.

[soniqstylz]

Meh.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Yes, it does. :| They (Microsoft) won't address the issue at all. If it was something they had zero intention of doing they would have said so by now. People are judging the system by this rumour before the console has even been announced. Not a good thing for consumers to already be disliking your product.

I'm not sure where you get this from but since you're so confident please refer me to where Microsoft has commented on rumors in the last 5 years.

[Athernar]

"Always online" is just another one of the many ephemeral fads in the history of Triple-A development, and it's already dead and buried. It goes to show how irrelevant and out of touch CliffyB is these days.

Developers are waking up to the reality that you can add value to titles in the form of online services that do not require an active connection. Always online doesn't stop piracy, online-augmented however reduces it.

[spaceelf]

The title of this thread itself is alarming. the "deal with it" aspect begs me to ask.. why are people with this attitude even in business?

Cliff has been out of the business for about half a year now.

[compl3x]

I'm not sure where you get this from but since you're so confident please refer me to where Microsoft has commented on rumors in the last 5 years.

When a rumour has this much of a negative impact on your brand you'd think they'd want to settle it quickly, not allow it to gain momentum.

What is it that people don't understand about this point?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I'm having a hard time seeing the next Xbox as requiring a persistent Internet connection. Microsoft isn't a U.S.-only company, and even though it may be possible in the U.S., it wouldn't be possible in many countries where the Xbox sells well.

That said, I don't think it's a good idea even in the U.S. There are too many potential issues. It's not just if a person's Internet connection goes out, it's about what happens when Xbox Live goes down. No, it doesn't go down frequently, but it does go down at times, and yes, it's annoying. It will be even more annoying if you can't even play games when that happens.

But I still don't think Microsoft will do it for yet another reason: It doesn't make sense. It makes sense that it would have major features that require a persistent connection (see: the recent rumor about set-top box integration), but not the entire device. How many household or personal devices require an Internet connection to function? Almost none. I would never buy a PC if it required an Internet connection to function, for instance.

I just don't see it happening. If the idea is DRM, it's a horrible idea. Companies have to stop punishing paying customers for the actions of those who pirate content.

Agreed. The reliability of someone's Internet connection isn't necessarily determined by the country they're from. It's determined by where they live, which company they're subscribed to, and the type of connection they have. Some are more reliable than others but it's a dangerous thing to assume that everyone's Internet connection will be "reliable enough". I've gone a week without Internet once. Normally, I wouldn't touch my console but after the 3rd or 4th day, I decided to play a singleplayer game that I haven't played in a very long time. If it refused to let me play because it couldn't connect to a server, then I'd be very angry with Microsoft.

We're just not there yet in terms of connection reliability. Maybe we'll be there in the generation after the next one... but not now. I have a feeling Microsoft will get a lot of flak for this once they officially announce it. And when they do, they better consider adding an offline mode for singleplayer games.

[Torolol]

since the games are need to be installed in XBox 'HDD', its quite possible to modify the binaries within said HDD to crack it up.

but who exactly need the 'always ONline'? the games or the XBox it self, or ?

[dead.cell]

Pointless thread is pointless, just gives one more opportunity to usual trolls.

You say all of that as if there is no DRM on current-gen consoles or PS4.

I never said there wasn't, now did I? Also, I'm not against DRM. I'm against DRM that goes too far. Steam has been a great example of something I am happy with. Internet don't work? Run in offline mode...

[HawkMan]

since the games are need to be installed in XBox 'HDD', its quite possible to modify the binaries within said HDD to crack it up.

oh really... you mean like how it has been done so much on the existing generation. You're forgetting a few levels of encryptions and verification and such here.

[George P Global Moderator]

"Always online" is just another one of the many ephemeral fads in the history of Triple-A development, and it's already dead and buried. It goes to show how irrelevant and out of touch CliffyB is these days.

Developers are waking up to the reality that you can add value to titles in the form of online services that do not require an active connection. Always online doesn't stop piracy, online-augmented however reduces it.

I agree as far as the piracy an drm aspect but I don't think the always online part has anything to do with that. I'm betting there are specific services/features that require a connection to a online service to work thus it has to be and can be set to "always on" mode. I also think games that will still have a SP element but take place in a ever changing online world will start to be the norm, merging SP and MP together in a sense, depending on how deeply tied to a story they want to make it of course.

[Athernar]

I agree as far as the piracy an drm aspect but I don't think the always online part has anything to do with that. I'm betting there are specific services/features that require a connection to a online service to work thus it has to be and can be set to "always on" mode. I also think games that will still have a SP element but take place in a ever changing online world will start to be the norm, merging SP and MP together in a sense, depending on how deeply tied to a story they want to make it of course.

If there are, then it's a case of those services having been wilfully (maliciously) designed to be dependant on an active connection for the purpose of justifying always-online DRM. I.E. SimCity.

[lexp]

We can enjoy playing Super Mario from 80s. Our grand-children won't be able to play current games because game companies will be out of business or stop supporting current games. We'll lose our history and cultural background.

[Boxster17]

Have a really hard time believing that they'll lock you out from single player games if you're not connected. I live in a major city yet I still suffer from internet outages here and there where if something like this was implemented I wouldn't even think of buying the console, no matter the manufacturer (exception being if they all did this). Not to mention the size of games in the near future and the already limited download caps that some have to deal with (luckily I don't, but a lot throughout Canada, can't speak for other countries). While I certainly see things being always online at some point, speaking globally, we're clearly not ready yet.

[compl3x]

Pointless thread is pointless, just gives one more opportunity to usual trolls.

And MS/Xbox fanboys an opportunity to whine about trolling.

Cliffy developed/designed two of the most popular and highest selling exclusive games on the 360 (and like it or not two of the highest rated). Love him or loathe him he is a pretty well known figure in the gaming industry. His opinions about stuff like always on aren't irrelevant or "pointless".

[BajiRav]

And MS/Xbox fanboys an opportunity to whine about trolling.

Cliffy developed/designed two of the most popular and highest selling exclusive games on the 360 (and like it or not two of the highest rated). Love him or loathe him he is a pretty well known figure in the gaming industry. His opinions about stuff like always on aren't irrelevant or "pointless".

I am not discounting him(rather loved playing first two gears) just tired of usual trolls spamming this forum with every opportunity.