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Apple likey to take on debt


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#16 Growled

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:13

It still doesn't make sense to me. Why go into debt when you still will half at least half of all that money left.


#17 Sandor

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:43

Analyst were thinking it would go over $1000 a share this past year. I think Apples value is over estimated and it shows with the price of their shares falling. With their sales falling and their earnings decreasing I think it is a bad idea to pay out half of their cash. If things get won't they need that money?


The analysts obviously missed that apple is neither the leader in cell phones or desktop computers.

#18 OP vetneufuse

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:21

Version numbers really mean nothing.


once again..... read what I wrote.... something that is a major change to the OS that would be of enough value to warrant a major version change..... why do we keep trying to get out of the idea by nit picking on the fact that some companies ala google have made version numbers meaningless now days... between Mac OS9 and Mac OS 10 there was a MAJOR OS overhaul, this is what I am talking about... something big, going to BSD was a big change... not saying ditch it now, saying make a big change to the OS

#19 Shadrack

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:10

once again..... read what I wrote.... something that is a major change to the OS that would be of enough value to warrant a major version change..... why do we keep trying to get out of the idea by nit picking on the fact that some companies ala google have made version numbers meaningless now days... between Mac OS9 and Mac OS 10 there was a MAJOR OS overhaul, this is what I am talking about... something big, going to BSD was a big change... not saying ditch it now, saying make a big change to the OS


And? When was Windows "overhauled"? Even in Windows 7 there are dialog boxes with old 16-bit graphic animations...lol. So if Windows is your ruler to judge Mac OS X then one would have to conclude that both Windows and Mac OS are due for some kind of "major overhaul" (I love your vagueness btw...).

OS X is just a brand name. Get over it. There have been a lot of major overhauls in OS X. Christ, the whole thing started on a completely different processor with a completely different instruction set architecture. You seem really confused by the fact that the brand of the OS has been Mac OS X for so long. Would it make more sense to you if every year they came out with Mac OS 2010, Mac OS 2012, etc.?

Anyway, I completely disagree that Mac OS X needs any kind of major overhaul. More features would be nice but it is pretty lean, mean, efficient, and intuitive. What would you overhaul other than the branding :)?

If you have major complaints about the OS, then fine. But it seems like you are just complaining about a brand name. I can think of LOTS and LOTS of brand names to complain about. What do you want exactly? For the terminal to have all new function names, the dock to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (omg! that would be killer, huh?) and the menu bar to have a hide feature? What kind of from the ground up are you talking about? Apple is notorious for reworking entire APIs that break old software (as in: major overhaul, what you seem to want and they have but you just won't acknowledge).

Microsoft, on the other hand, bows down to backwards compatibility. What they have done with Windows is a complete opposite of "major overhaul" IMO (which completely has its own set of merits and I admire them for that). More like staple fixing things and tacking things on with relentless patch-after-patch-after-patch-after-please-reboot-again-because-your-time-isn't-important-patch. What's your measure?

#20 Boxster17

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:20

And? When was Windows "overhauled"? Even in Windows 7 there are dialog boxes with old 16-bit graphic animations...lol. So if Windows is your ruler to judge Mac OS X then one would have to conclude that both Windows and Mac OS are due for some kind of "major overhaul" (I love your vagueness btw...).

OS X is just a brand name. Get over it. There have been a lot of major overhauls in OS X. Christ, the whole thing started on a completely different processor with a completely different instruction set architecture. You seem really confused by the fact that the brand of the OS has been Mac OS X for so long. Would it make more sense to you if every year they came out with Mac OS 2010, Mac OS 2012, etc.?

Anyway, I completely disagree that Mac OS X needs any kind of major overhaul. More features would be nice but it is pretty lean, mean, efficient, and intuitive. What would you overhaul other than the branding :)?


At what point did he even mention Windows at all? You seem to insist he's using Windows as a standard but was curious where you drew that conclusion?

#21 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:21

The analysts obviously missed that apple is neither the leader in cell phones or desktop computers.

Neither one of which are needed for its share price to go up. Do people still believe that share prices are based on magic or something? I remember when those numbers came out and based on P/E and EPS $1000 was the correct valuation without considering other factors. Believe it or not, most current prices on the market make sense, including when Apples were extremely high.

#22 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:39

It still doesn't make sense to me. Why go into debt when you still will half at least half of all that money left.

It's possible that they expect to take on debt in the new few years and they want to take advantage of the lower interest rates we have now. Those are expected to rise. When they issue the bonds, if they are very long term, 20 years or more, that is likely the reasoning.

#23 moloko

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 13:38

I find this fascinating that they can get a loan to pay off people and get lower taxes in return. The tax system rocks if you are rich as all ****.

#24 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 13:52

I find this fascinating that they can get a loan to pay off people and get lower taxes in return. The tax system rocks if you are rich as all ****.

Makes sense if you consider not all of its money is in US dollars. They would be heavily taxed if they converted it to US and then paid it out. It would be taxed more than the interest rate on bonds. Apple could pick up a bond for 5-7% or it can convert the cash and be forced into taxes 10% or more.

#25 OP vetneufuse

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:03

And? When was Windows "overhauled"? Even in Windows 7 there are dialog boxes with old 16-bit graphic animations...lol. So if Windows is your ruler to judge Mac OS X then one would have to conclude that both Windows and Mac OS are due for some kind of "major overhaul" (I love your vagueness btw...).

OS X is just a brand name. Get over it. There have been a lot of major overhauls in OS X. Christ, the whole thing started on a completely different processor with a completely different instruction set architecture. You seem really confused by the fact that the brand of the OS has been Mac OS X for so long. Would it make more sense to you if every year they came out with Mac OS 2010, Mac OS 2012, etc.?

Anyway, I completely disagree that Mac OS X needs any kind of major overhaul. More features would be nice but it is pretty lean, mean, efficient, and intuitive. What would you overhaul other than the branding :)?

If you have major complaints about the OS, then fine. But it seems like you are just complaining about a brand name. I can think of LOTS and LOTS of brand names to complain about. What do you want exactly? For the terminal to have all new function names, the dock to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (omg! that would be killer, huh?) and the menu bar to have a hide feature? What kind of from the ground up are you talking about? Apple is notorious for reworking entire APIs that break old software (as in: major overhaul, what you seem to want and they have but you just won't acknowledge).

Microsoft, on the other hand, bows down to backwards compatibility. What they have done with Windows is a complete opposite of "major overhaul" IMO (which completely has its own set of merits and I admire them for that). More like staple fixing things and tacking things on with relentless patch-after-patch-after-patch-after-please-reboot-again-because-your-time-isn't-important-patch. What's your measure?


good gawd, who ever brought up windows? I am talking about OSX geez, not comparing to ANYTHING I am just saying Apple needs to take it to the next level sheesh

#26 M_Lyons10

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 14:12

Debt right now is very cheap, makes sense.


It's quite different for business. Though I'm sure Apple will be able to negotiate a pretty good rate, financing for business is far from what it is for individuals at the moment it's sad to say...

#27 Shadrack

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 15:04

At what point did he even mention Windows at all? You seem to insist he's using Windows as a standard but was curious where you drew that conclusion?


I'm just asking what "overhaul" even means? We are talking about OSes right? His unsaid implication is that Mac OS X is falling behind Windows in some vague way and needs to be overhauled to catch up or he may just mean that he thinks they need to rebrand OS X to OS 11 and that would mean an overhaul of the OS (or some combination of both). Naturally the competition for Mac OS X is Windows, so that is where I get Windows from unless his measure is Linux or Android or Something else...? That is what I'm asking for. What is his grounds for comparison? Since he won't specify and leave things vague the reader has to assume.

good gawd, who ever brought up windows? I am talking about OSX geez, not comparing to ANYTHING I am just saying Apple needs to take it to the next level sheesh


Next level like what? Holodecks? Your vagueness is both hilarious and very frusterating for anyone trying to understand what it is you think Apple should do.

#28 Sandor

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:04

Neither one of which are needed for its share price to go up. Do people still believe that share prices are based on magic or something? I remember when those numbers came out and based on P/E and EPS $1000 was the correct valuation without considering other factors. Believe it or not, most current prices on the market make sense, including when Apples were extremely high.


But you would expect it to have some bearing on people saying it's the most valuable company on the planet when it's a leader in zero sectors in which it operates.

#29 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 16:26

But you would expect it to have some bearing on people saying it's the most valuable company on the planet when it's a leader in zero sectors in which it operates.

That is a common misconception. Apple operates on a profit margin that is rarely seen. A dollar made by Apple is worth more than the same dollar made by one of its competitors. When it comes to stocks, that is what decides what company is the most valuable. Apple has a 24.94% ROA compared to 13.88% from Samsung which is the only company above Apple in the smartphone market. That means a dollar earned by Apple is twice as valuable to an investor as a dollar earned by Samsung.

#30 OP vetneufuse

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 18:27

Next level like what? Holodecks? Your vagueness is both hilarious and very frusterating for anyone trying to understand what it is you think Apple should do.


are you really that dense? or are you just trying to make me mad? either way all it's doing is making you look out of touch... you are literally grasping at straws to try to counter anything I say... how hard is it to figure out that "the next level" could be any major change to the operating system..... metro/modern UI for windows was a major change to how the OS worked, Apple could easily do something similar or something better / different.. heck they could make OS 11 all iOS style, how the heck should I know, I'm not at R&D at Apple... just saying these little updates every 10.x build hasn't done anything "major" the OS as a whole in how it is used