Jump to content

96 posts in this topic

Posted

[quote name='Growled' timestamp='1366423032' post='595648670']
Same here. If they do bring it back then they'll have to admit that the start screen was a failure. I don't see that happening.
[/quote]

The Start Screen isn't a failure. The button would still take user to the Start Screen.

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1366418143' post='595648518']
Explain yourself? There's still the Charms, Keyboard, and hardware start button. It may also be optional and may not appear on tablets. But assuming it does, how will it break down? It will only be available in Desktop Environment so I don't know how it would break down for Metro. The Taskbar then, breaks down when people start using Metro apps?????
[/quote]

On the desktop, I would have a start button on the taskbar like before, in Metro apps, users still have the Start Tip. You want to talk about a disjointed UX, there you go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1366424666' post='595648718']On the desktop, I would have a start button on the taskbar like before, in Metro apps, users still have the Start Tip. You want to talk about a disjointed UX, there you go.
[/quote]

So the level of disjointedness was OK up until this announcement? The Start Button is the last straw?

I don't know why anyone would be using the tip in a fullscreen Modern UI app anyway, they should be using the keyboard Win key, or the Charms Bar, or the App Bar to switch apps. That's a lot of options in Modern UI to do the same thing, why not a Start button.

You know what, if it comes back, don't whine and cry about it, I'm getting sick of all the whining and crying on Neowin. Just accept the change! :p /s

[quote name='TPreston' timestamp='1366422476' post='595648662']
As everyone said I hope its optional otherwise they're just going to **** off people who were happy with the way things are now.
[/quote]

Don't be resistant to change.

[quote name='Brando212' timestamp='1366421100' post='595648638']
now THAT is the dumbest thing i've heard. it's exactly the same either way. you move your mouse to bottom left corner and click (you don't have to wait for the pop up before clicking the same as you don't have to wait for the word "start" to appear when you hover over the start button)
[/quote]

That's true, but the power menu is faster than both. Slam low left and right click, no waiting.
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='lctb51' timestamp='1366415017' post='595648368']
Paul Thurrot from the Winsupersite, confirms Microsoft is in fact adding a boot to desktop and a start button to Windows 8.1!
Here is the link
[url="http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/maybe-they-should-just-call-it-windows-78"]http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/maybe-they-should-just-call-it-windows-78[/url]
[/quote]

Paul irritates me with this article though I like a little confirmation of these welcome changes. To say this will make it more like Windows 7 that 8 is ridiculous. The Start Page and Modern UI are still there as are the charms and app bars and power menu. And the Start Button will just take you to the Start Page. You can boot to the desktop with Start8 and other tools now. But giving boot to desktop, MS will kickstart enterprise adoption and save consumers $5, and show some goodwill and common sense. And return to their ways of listening to the customer. The Microsoft that released Win 8.0 is not the Microsoft we all know and love. Let's hope Sinofsky really was the problem. I'm sure some of those who worked under him need time to readjust to being customer driven instead of internal corporate power and control driven.

I can promise you, if Windows 8.1 boots to desktop with a GPO setting to enable this as well, we will stop rolling out Windows 7 (provided we are not done yet, and we won't be by Fall), I will switch all of our agencies to skip 7 and go to 8. I'm sure I'm not alone. If we can skip booting to the Start Page, and boot to the desktop, it will be easier to train to click on the start Button and think of Start Page just as a launcher. Would be nice to have some MS tools to automate Start Page configuration including groups and naming.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If I was the Windows Team, I'd be fighting this. When upper management makes design decisions, things never go right.

Then again, Paul Thurrott has been wrong - many times - before. I've honestly stopped reading his blog because of it. He has no more of a clue what's coming, than you or I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1366427127' post='595648794']
If I was the Windows Team, I'd be fighting this.[/quote]

Fighting this? They're lucky they weren't fired en masse for the Windows 8 debacle.
9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Windows Nashville' timestamp='1366427628' post='595648802']


Fighting this? They're lucky they weren't fired en masse for the Windows 8 debacle.
[/quote]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Windows Nashville' timestamp='1366427628' post='595648802']
Fighting this? They're lucky they weren't fired en masse for the Windows 8 debacle.
[/quote]

There is no debacle. The Start Button is still there, 2 on the desktop, with your usual third hardware key. That's some debacle.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1366427983' post='595648812']


There is no debacle. The Start Button is still there, 2 on the desktop, with your usual third hardware key. That's some debacle.
[/quote]

I'm guessing he's generalizing about the polarizing response to the hybrid UI, the number of disgruntled customers and not having a choice to boot to desktop and bring back Start Menu (compromising users accept at least a button to got to Start Page), the state of core apps and dearth of Modern UI apps.

I love Mary Jo in the vid, "I mostly use Metro apps, but I want to be in the desktop when I do real work ...", no kidding.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='lctb51' timestamp='1366416108' post='595648422']
This is not an official picture from Microsoft, it is a concept of it I created! This is what the Windows 8 start screen button may look like!

[attachment=331892:start button.png]
[/quote]

:huh:
NO. Even if Microsoft decides to bring it back, it will "definitely" not look anything like this!
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

a button is not good enough. either put the start menu back or make metro start support folders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Growled' timestamp='1366423032' post='595648670']
Same here. If they do bring it back then they'll have to admit that the start screen was a failure. I don't see that happening.
[/quote]

To the end user, it doesn't really matter. He will get the Start Button back. Microsoft will get its sales back. Board members will be happy again.

It's not like Microsoft will have to call a very public press conference for the matter where they will admit to their mistake and they will be made to hang their heads in shame. They might implement it again and say that they did it due to popular opinion. That will be it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Very logical decision.

Maybe I don't need the Start Button. Maybe even all of you doesn't want it.

But Microsoft finally notice that there's one BILLION people, using one BILLION personal computers, around the world, or even the UNIVERSE, that MAYBE will still want it to use. And if they can't find it, they will CRY, SCREAM and SHOUT.

Is like the FILE menu, removed in Office 2007 and restored in Office 2010 and Office 2013. Common sense excecutives that finally stops non-global vision developers.

Jolo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Has the world gone mad and everyone completely forgotten the "windows key" on the keyboard?? I seriously don't understand the fuss about the Start button....
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Xerxes' timestamp='1366433491' post='595648864']
Has the world gone mad and everyone completely forgotten the "windows key" on the keyboard?? I seriously don't understand the fuss about the Start button....
[/quote]

it's not about the start button. Microsoft thinks that by adding a button to go to the start screen will fix the problem... people are still going to be ****ed off without the start menu. I just hope that classic shell can alter it's behavior to give a more natural looking start button.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[img]http://www.winbeta.org/sites/default/files/newsimages/win8_tp_0016.jpg[/img]

Windows 8 Developer Preview was ahead of it's time ;)
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='seta-san' timestamp='1366433650' post='595648868']
it's not about the start button. Microsoft thinks that buy adding a button to go to the start screen will fix the problem... people are still going to be ****ed off without the start menu. I just hope that classic shell can alter it's behavior to give a more natural looking start button.
[/quote]

People are always ****ed off about something though, if MS had decided to play it safe and leave the start button/menu in place and never did the start screen/modern UI people would be complaining MS is stagnant and don't innovate. They cannot win nor can they please everyone. I think we should wait and see what happens with 8.1, for all we know the full start menu might make a return. Anyway, I'm happy for more functionality to added to Win8, always room for improvement (Y)
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Windows Nashville' timestamp='1366427628' post='595648802']
Fighting this? They're lucky they weren't fired en masse for the Windows 8 debacle.
[/quote]

Sinofsky took one for the team, but you're right, Microsoft management needs to get in there and get rid of those defending the new Metro screen, to the detriment of a properly functional desktop/start button/mouse/ NO TOUCH etc.

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1366427127' post='595648794']
If I was the Windows Team, I'd be fighting this.[/quote]

everyone expects you to say this DM.

No one take you seriously any more.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Xerxes' timestamp='1366434176' post='595648878']


People are always ****ed off about something though, if MS had decided to play it safe and leave the start button/menu in place and never did the start screen/modern UI people would be complaining MS is stagnant and don't innovate. They cannot win nor can they please everyone. I think we should wait and see what happens with 8.1, for all we know the full start menu might make a return. Anyway, I'm happy for more functionality to added to Win8, always room for improvement (Y)
[/quote]

You're right. In either case, they would have lost. But in this case, they have come out as winners. Some of what was lost was so bad, that the Modern UI couldn't replace, that the only way for them to win with the many they ****ed off, is to give the button back. Not the full menu, just the button and the habit of going there to get to Start. This still brings up Metro and those who say they didn't need it, shouldn't care. It's one icon on a taskbar most of them say they don't need.

Consumers love nothing better than being listened to, and catered to. And America (I know it's a global product) is the land of second chances, we love a tale of redemption. The 800 lb. gorilla that actually walked all over a huge portion of it's loyal base is actually going to come out of this smelling like a rose and being a champion of listening to customers and giving them what they want within reason.

Well ****ing played Microsoft. Well played.

Edit: Even those of us who mandated no Windows 8 upgrades in the enterprise until Windows 8.2 or even 9, will find it difficult to resist now with these two particular concessions. But for me, they also have to carry through with the Modern UI search improvements. That is critical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1366416967' post='595648464']
I'll believe it when I see it. Having a start button breaks down when users start menu using Metro apps.
[/quote]

Metro apps..... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Rickkins' timestamp='1366436485' post='595648904']


Metro apps..... :rolleyes:
[/quote]

I think you meant Metro tapplets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='trek' timestamp='1366429621' post='595648840']
a button is not good enough. either put the start menu back or make metro start support folders.
[/quote]

Wait...what...?? They wanna bring back the button, but not the menu.... geez-a-loo wtf is wrong with these people...???

Maybe we're gonna need to start a collection, so they might buy a brain....
Oh well... more flop-zilla. Sucks to be them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Can someone clearly articulate what is so vital about the old Start Menu?

I don't miss it at all and have barely used it since Vista. Why? Tap WinKey and type the name of the app I'm after. That same behavior has held true through Vista, 7 and now 8. Is this a case of MS failing to promote and showcase features they implemented in Vista and refined with 7? I've found it to be faster at finding rarely used apps and great for finding documents and other files.

I'll probably get tarred and feathered for this question, but I'm curious about what is so vital in the old Start Menu that it makes Win8 a failure in some peoples eyes because it is gone.

[b]EDIT[/b]
I should add that I've been trying to get people at work to understand that we should release some job aides showing users how to use the features and functions of Windows 7 that could save them some time and aid in a transition to Windows 8. Progress is slow at this point.

The other day I was talking to a Director who was ranting about Windows 8 and how hard it was to find an application. I mentioned to do the WinKey tap and start typing, just like you could in Windows 7, the response was... you could do that in Windows 7?

Personally, I'm torn on the Start button. As I said above, at home I don't miss it at all. But I cringe when I think of rolling this out at work, but the Start button might make it easier. No third party solutions, a native offering from MS due to licensing and maintenance concerns.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Rickkins' timestamp='1366436824' post='595648912']
Wait...what...?? They wanna bring back the button, but not the menu.... geez-a-loo wtf is wrong with these people...???
[/quote]

I'd count my blessings if I were you. Judging by their previous attitude, I think we're lucky to be getting anything like this at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='zeke009' timestamp='1366437348' post='595648920']
Can someone clearly articulate what is so vital about the old Start Menu?

Tap WinKey and type the name of the app I'm after.
[/quote]

Simple. Performing the procedure you mention in your post can be done under Vista and 7 without taking up the entire screen, in 8 it cannot.

Why waste time waiting and screen real-estate for a oversized UI when you're not going to look at it anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

My latest tweet to the Windows team.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/anarkii/status/325491887706357761[/tweet]
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.