72 posts in this topic

Unfortunately, stories like this only add to the "religion is bad" mentality that is all too prevalent today.

The foolish parents are not representative of religion as a whole, but I'm going beyond the scope of this topic.

Anyway, I wish they had the sense enough to believe that the being they worship would want what is best for their child (by taking him to the doctor), instead of letting him die.

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No one is saying all religion is bad, this religion is backwards when they wont even treat a suffering child and let it die. I think god would understand if the parents took the child to be treated, he is supposed to be forgiving, right?

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wasn't there also case about death becasue scientology 'medical' method ?

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A Northeast Philadelphia couple sentenced to probation for practicing faith healing after the 2009 death of their ill toddler son are again under criminal investigation in connection with the death of their 8-month-old son Thursday.

They didn't learn anything the first time?

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Not sure why these people are any different from $cientologists to be honest, they do the exact same thing.

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my religion says i can kill my kids too and i have 5 of them (used to have about 8 or 9 forgot how many)

don't be mad peopel we will be leaving spaceship earth when the mother ship comes back (Haley's comet)

then we will take our ritual drinks (purple koolaid + poison) and we rise uo to our ship (wearing our Nike's) to the mother ship

and can then go back to our home planet so you guys don't need to be concerned about our beliefs etc

This is about my church if some of you wanna join..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29

Wikipedia lists over 4,200 different religions world wide and that means ? anything ?

which one is the non contradicting correct one ? or am i being naive in thinking that they can not all be right ?

Anyone that believe is God please do feel free to answer that riddle for me. (and the other 4,199 people i will have to notify they are wrong lol)

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Whilst I feel sorry for the child in such a tragic case, the bigger question is should medical expertise be actively forced upon citizens whos guardians deny either the need or the relevance of such practises.In doing so are the interventionists not denying those people the faith they believe in?

the child should be givewn medical treatment ...untill it becomes of age and can refuse it them selves

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No belief should trump the health & safety of people. period.

Anyone that believes otherwise should be removed from society so they can't harm anyone.

The world would be a much better place if we all held this view.

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PHILADELPHIA (AP) ? A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."

A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.

A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.

The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.

At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.

"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.

"He feels they are a danger to their children ? not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.

Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing ? From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.

A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.

The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.

"Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

source

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How on Earth are they allowed to have a child? Where was DHS after the first child died?

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This is so very sad, but the first thing I thought of was Metallica's song 'The God That Failed'.

Nobody should have to bury their own children. :(

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This is so very sad, but the first thing I thought of was Metallica's song 'The God That Failed'.

Nobody should have to bury their own children. :(

Superb song!

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Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

You cannot be a good parent and let your child suffer for a week and die without seeing a doctor.

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So they believe in faith healing which has now failed twice... yet i'm guessing they still believe?

Shame the children had to suffer for their parents ridiculous beliefs.

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I really can't see how these people got away with murder the first time. Extreme neglect that leads to death is, or at least should be, considered murder. The fact that they got off on the charges the first time due to religious reasons is the epitome of why this country's legal system is broken and worthless.

And what makes me even angrier is that they probably won't be punished again.

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Now everyone will be saying stuff how faith is this and that. They are just idiots who had to make up an excuse. I believe in God but if Im sick I dont just sit and hope I go to the doctor. This is the most stupid excuse ever.

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This didn't happen because they are bad parents, it happened because they are foolish and mistaken.

If you completely believe that the doctor can heal your child, you will keep taking them to the doctor even as you watch them die. If your child dies in the doctor's care, that doesn't make you a bad parent.

They (mistakenly, obviously) completely believe that if they pray hard enough they can heal their child, and they are likely more distraught over the death because they will blame themselves for not managing to pray sufficiently for healing.

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sadly there are some people in the religious forum section that will claim that the parents just didn't pray hard enough.

because they will blame themselves for not managing to pray sufficiently for healing.

I call that bad parenting

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This is really sad.. I am not religious, but have no problem with people that are. I give them props for being dedicated to something. However, maybe it was their gods plan to take them to a hospital or something.. I don't understand stories like this. this is where religion interferes with others and I don't like it.

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Not that I don't think they are fools, but here is an interesting point: If they have 7/9 children that survive, they are actually beating the pre-1970 child mortality rate in America.

This means that most people alive today were born to parents that did a worse job of helping their children survive than these ones have.

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This didn't happen because they are bad parents, it happened because they are foolish and mistaken.

If you completely believe that the doctor can heal your child, you will keep taking them to the doctor even as you watch them die. If your child dies in the doctor's care, that doesn't make you a bad parent.

The thing is if the doctors can't save your child nobody will. So if you bring your child to the hospital then you are a good parent.

Prayers wont save your child. Everyone should know that. There's simply no excuse. If you don't bring your suffering child to the hospital then i think you are a bad parent. Not necessarily a bad person but a bad parent yes.

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This didn't happen because they are bad parents, it happened because they are foolish and mistaken.

If you completely believe that the doctor can heal your child, you will keep taking them to the doctor even as you watch them die. If your child dies in the doctor's care, that doesn't make you a bad parent.

They (mistakenly, obviously) completely believe that if they pray hard enough they can heal their child, and they are likely more distraught over the death because they will blame themselves for not managing to pray sufficiently for healing.

Are you trying to justify this? :huh: They ARE bad parents - there is no other way to put it.

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Now everyone will be saying stuff how faith is this and that. They are just idiots who had to make up an excuse. I believe in God but if Im sick I dont just sit and hope I go to the doctor. This is the most stupid excuse ever.

Yeah, I wonder why these people believe in an all-powerful God, yet can't grasp the idea that he could work through doctors and etc. Doesn't he work through people and circumstances? "mysterious ways" and all?

Sounds like both of these deaths were completely preventable. Bacterial infections, diarrhea, these are fairly common problems that we've all had and recovered from. The symptoms were allowed to get way more serious than they should have and it killed these innocent kids. That's really sad :(

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This means that most people alive today were born to parents that did a worse job of helping their children survive than these ones have.

No the parents back then did what they could with the technology and knowledge of the time.

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