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Posted

[quote name='techbeck' timestamp='1366657753' post='595652674']
ST Microelectronics sounds more to blame here. They had a NDA that they apparently didnt abide by.
[/quote]

Thomson is to blame for sure, but HTC is also at fault. In north America,if I buy stolen property, I will be charged with possession of stolen property,even if I didn't know I bought stolen goods. HTC has a duty to do their DD before sourcing components to make sure whatever they're buying is compliant with the law,and doesn't infringe on the intellectual properly of third parties.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1366660554' post='595652772']
I don't understand how you can dismiss the unique design, CPU, display, RAM, GPU, battery, UI and weight, yet make a distinction for the microphone and camera. Does anybody really buy a phone for the microphone? And while the Lumia 920 has a great camera, so too does the HTC One - [url="http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/04/08/htc-one-vs-nokia-lumia-920-camera-comparison/"]this comparison[/url] shows the Lumia 920 excelling in some areas and the HTC One excelling in others. Even if we accept your premise that the Lumia 920 has a significantly better camera
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Posted

[quote name='-Razorfold' timestamp='1366658268' post='595652698']
HD2, Desire, Touch Pro 2, Diamond, Touch HD?

Yeah most of those are WinMo phones like you said but they also were really nice phones (regardless of the OS). There were often quite different to what the competition had and in terms of build quality they were still pretty good. They started to lose all that when they saturated the market with 600 copies of the same phone.
[/quote]

the diamond models where admittedly good. but the Desire... seriously...

and all of the above suffered from production quality issues or design quality issues.

[quote name='jakem1' timestamp='1366663558' post='595652864']
You just typed the same thing all over again. Let me make it clear - HTC are primarily promoting this phone based on the camera and the microphones and those are features that have been copied from Nokia. The rest of the stuff in your post is just a laundry list of the latest smartphone components. There's nothing innovative about this phone.


[/quote]

Never mind the fact that HTC had to put all that increased CPU, GPU and RAM in there to try to match the performance of the lumia, and the Lumie 610 with WP7.0 still outperforms it.

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Posted

HTC is pratically boasting about it: [url="http://blog.htc.com/2013/03/htc-one-distortion-free-recording/"]http://blog.htc.com/2013/03/htc-one-distortion-free-recording/[/url]

Nokia said the technology in question is "high amplitude audio capture" and enables high-quality recording of music from mobile phones. Nokia said it took apart the HTC One to confirm the microphone, which HTC called "dual membrane HDR", was the same as its own.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1366658815' post='595652716']
Yeah you are off topic. Nokia is not after HTC for making phones. RTFA.
[/quote]I did read the fu**ing article as you mentioned, I'm replying on my phone, which is why I didn't delete it and put up my usual 'statement withdrawn' post instead, but seeing as you have nothing better to do than be rude to an honest mistake, to you sir, I say GFY!

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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1366665125' post='595652916']
Never mind the fact that HTC had to put all that increased CPU, GPU and RAM in there to try to match the performance of the lumia, and the Lumie 610 with WP7.0 still outperforms it.
[/quote]

Your comparison is irrelevant unless they both run the same OS. The One running WP7.0 would smoke the Lumia 610.

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Posted

[quote name='adrynalyne' timestamp='1366666260' post='595652962']
Your comparison is irrelevant unless they both run the same OS. IThe One running WP7.0 would smoke the Lumia 610.
[/quote]
I got lost, the lumia 610 is equivalent to the HTC one?

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/normal_CocaineRickJames-300x240.jpg[/img]
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Posted

[quote name='Draconian Guppy' timestamp='1366666552' post='595652970']
I got lost, the lumia 610 is equivalent to the HTC one?

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/normal_CocaineRickJames-300x240.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


I dunno, ask HawkMan. I built off his example.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366661179' post='595652786']
Exactly.. but god forbid Microsoft/Nokia apologists to actually read the point.



Right.. it's super easy.. engineering piece of equipment around new processors, heat requirements and many other things is super easy.. jesus
[/quote]

[url="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm"]http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm[/url]

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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1366655934' post='595652624']
HTC never made the best phones. well during the WinMo era they sort of did, mostly by being the only major OEM. but their phones never had good build quality or industrial design as for as quality went. their cameras have universally sucked their screens have been mediocre at best...
[/quote]

The HD2 was a frankly awesome phone for when it was released.

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Posted

[quote name='illegaloperation' timestamp='1366665137' post='595652920']HTC is pratically boasting about it: [url="http://blog.htc.com/2013/03/htc-one-distortion-free-recording/"]http://blog.htc.com/...free-recording/[/url]

Nokia said the technology in question is "high amplitude audio capture" and enables high-quality recording of music from mobile phones. Nokia said it took apart the HTC One to confirm the microphone, which HTC called "dual membrane HDR", was the same as its own.[/quote]

Reading the article apparently STE was unauthorised to sell the microphone to HTC, as it was developed by Nokia. It would seem HTC believed STE was authorised to sell the microphones, hence why the promotional material openly advertised the technology - there was no deceit. The recent trend of using injunctions to prevent the sale of infringing products is particularly concerning, as it has a much greater economic impact than simply requiring a company to pay the appropriate licencing fee for the patented technology. It is being used to stifle the competition rather than to protect innovation, which is what patents were designed for.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1366668501' post='595653022']


Reading the article apparently STE was unauthorised to sell the microphone to HTC, as it was developed by Nokia. It would seem HTC believed STE was authorised to sell the microphones, hence why the promotional material openly advertised the technology - there was no deceit. The recent trend of using injunctions to prevent the sale of infringing products is particularly concerning, as it has a much greater economic impact than simply requiring a company to pay the appropriate licencing fee for the patented technology. It is being used to stifle the competition rather than to protect innovation, which is what patents were designed for.
[/quote]

I don't understand - who said Nokia are even interested in licensing the tech? Hence an injunction seems entirely appropriate here. Or am I missing something?
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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1366668501' post='595653022']
[b] It is being used to stifle the competition rather than to protect innovation, which is what patents were designed for.[/b]
[/quote]

wait what? How do you "protect innovation" if in doing so, its labeled as "stifling competition"? I think some of you sure are drinking that google koolaid. What the hell is the point of a patent then?

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Posted

[quote name='vcfan' timestamp='1366669475' post='595653052']
wait what? How do you "protect innovation" if in doing so, its labeled as "stifling competition"? I think some of you sure are drinking that google koolaid. What the hell is the point of a patent then?
[/quote]
[quote name='.fahim' timestamp='1366668929' post='595653036']I don't understand - who said Nokia are even interested in licensing the tech? Hence an injunction seems entirely appropriate here. Or am I missing something?[/quote]

The issue is whether HTC acted in good faith in its decision to include the microphone in the HTC One. If that's the case and STE is to blame then it is a disproportionate response to prevent HTC from shipping the phone, as that would create a significant delay and the cost to replace the microphones used would be considerable. The more appropriate remedy would be for Nokia to sue STE for the breach of contract and the economic damage it caused (or to simply licence the technology to HTC). This would only apply to the phones already manufactured, as any future phones would use a non-offending part.

As I said, patents are designed to protect innovation. If STE is at fault then [i]it[/i] should be the company held to account. HTC shouldn't have to incur a substantial cost and significant delay for something it wasn't responsible for, as that would vastly exceed the harm to Nokia. It's about proportionality. Nokia has every right to protect its intellectual property but it shouldn't be able to abuse the system to disproportionately disadvantage one of its major competitors. However, if HTC knowingly designed a phone that infringed on Nokia's patents then the injunction is completely justified.

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Posted

[quote name='.fahim' timestamp='1366668929' post='595653036']
I don't understand - who said Nokia are even interested in licensing the tech? Hence an injunction seems entirely appropriate here. Or am I missing something?
[/quote]

Injuction is not warranted because HTC didn't infringe on anything... they bought it from STE.. Nokia can sue STE and ask for money they lost because of them selling it..

Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366671138' post='595653088']
Injuction is not warranted because HTC didn't infringe on anything... they bought it from STE.. Nokia can sue STE and ask for money they lost because of them selling it..

Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.
[/quote]That's a lot of ridiculousness in one post. No company should be allowed to sell a product that contains components that they do not have a license for. Insert any name in place of Nokia here because any company in their situation would do the exact same thing.

HTC and Nokia could very well team up to beat STE senseless here for their major part in the whole thing, but that doesn't change the fact that HTC has a product on the market with proprietary Nokia components they are not licensed to use. Expect a licensing deal so they can shift their focus to beating STE.
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Posted

Naughty Naughty..

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366671138' post='595653088']
Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.
[/quote]
Actively trying to prevent HTC? They asked for an injunction to stop the supply of microphones to HTC NOT to stop HTC selling the One.

So essentially what Nokia did was correct, and as usual you're just full of ****. I'm sure if someone stole your work and then claimed it as their own you'll be totally happy with it and not do anything about it.

And as for can't compete? LOL. Sorry HTC hasn't been able to compete in the Android marketplace for quite a while now, Samsung has completely destroyed them.
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Posted

[quote name='techbeck' timestamp='1366661550' post='595652808']
Well, if HTC has no knowledge of what STM did, then HTC should sue STM.
[/quote]
I believe that Nokia is within its rights to sue HTC over this infraction, just as I could sue another company for accidentally stealing the code that I write through a middleman. None of this is to say that you disagree.

Additionally, I think that Nokia should also sue STM for breach of contract, and HTC should sue STM for losses as a result of STM's breach of contract. Of course that assumes that HTC had no knowledge that the chip was Nokia's.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366671138' post='595653088']
Injuction is not warranted because HTC didn't infringe on anything... they bought it from STE.. Nokia can sue STE and ask for money they lost because of them selling it..

Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.
[/quote]

This is clearly all part of a Google-funded plan to extinguish all competition, and create an Android monopoly.

The infringement was wilful and should be fined.

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366671138' post='595653088']
Injuction is not warranted because HTC didn't infringe on anything... they bought it from STE.. Nokia can sue STE and ask for money they lost because of them selling it..

Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.
[/quote]

They're stopping the supply of microphones... isn't that exactly what they should do? If it inconveniences HTC, then HTC should sue STE for breach of contract (no delivery) and other associated costs and losses.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1366670709' post='595653080']
The issue is whether HTC acted in good faith in its decision to include the microphone in the HTC One. If that's the case and STE is to blame then it is a disproportionate response to prevent HTC from shipping the phone, as that would create a significant delay and the cost to replace the microphones used would be considerable. The more appropriate remedy would be for Nokia to sue STE for the breach of contract and the economic damage it caused (or to simply licence the technology to HTC). This would only apply to the phones already manufactured, as any future phones would use a non-offending part


As I said, patents are designed to protect innovation. If STE is at fault then [i]it[/i] should be the company held to account. HTC shouldn't have to incur a substantial cost and significant delay for something it wasn't responsible for, as that would vastly exceed the harm to Nokia. It's about proportionality. Nokia has every right to protect its intellectual property but it shouldn't be able to abuse the system to disproportionately disadvantage one of its major competitors. However, if HTC knowingly designed a phone that infringed on Nokia's patents then the injunction is completely justified.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter if HTC didn't know, they are using a Nokia component in their product without consent or license. If police found a stolen computer in my home, should they continue to let me use it until its convenient for me to go out and buy a replacement? See how ridiculous that is.I cant believe I'm even wasting my time trying to explain how completely ludicrous your comments And,this has nothing to do with patents. This has to do with a nokia component in an HTC device. If Samsung unloaded a bunch of A6 chips in LGs lap,should LG be able to continue selling A6 LG phones because it wasn't their fault?

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Posted

[quote name='Athernar' timestamp='1366671767' post='595653114']
This is clearly all part of a Google-funded plan to extinguish all competition, and create an Android monopoly.

The infringement was wilful and should be fined.
[/quote]


Of course it is.

/s

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Posted

[quote name='Boz' timestamp='1366671138' post='595653088']
Injuction is not warranted because HTC didn't infringe on anything... they bought it from STE.. Nokia can sue STE and ask for money they lost because of them selling it..

Nokia is actively trying to prevent HTC because HTC makes better phones and sells more phones than Nokia's pathetic attempts in selling that Windows Phone failure. They are sad.. When you can't compete try everything you can to prevent competitors.
[/quote]
Unlike [url="http://www.gsmarena.com/q4_comes_up_short_for_htc_not_enough_hotselling_phones-news-5296.php"]HTC[/url], [url="http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2013/01/24/nokias-q4-2012-754-million-operating-loss-9-49-billion-in-net-sales-2-9-million-lumia-phones-sold/"]Nokia[/url] actually began turning things around this past quarter with $584 million in operating profit, compared to the $34 million made by HTC (or 10% of the previous year's profit). Nokia is also the dominant Windows Phone player, and--like them or not--they are trying to innovate in both parts of the market: the high end and the low end.

I guess Nokia should stick with their pathetic attempts at selling that Windows Phone failure because half a billion dollars is a lot better than 34 million dollars.

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Posted

[quote name='Athernar' timestamp='1366671767' post='595653114']
This is clearly all part of a Google-funded plan to extinguish all competition, and create an Android monopoly.
[/quote]

ARe you serious? If so, can I have what you are smoking?
[quote]
The infringement was wilful and should be fined.
[/quote]

According to who?

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