Jump to content

Question

Posted

Been designing this website for almost a year. Was about to finish it. Just need to get the content and everything would be done, just some minor changes. Now they higher a editor or something. But someone who just don't know how website designing. First she thinks a major change can be done in an hour. Told her that it does not work that. I can design something in illustrator in an hour and code it out an a few hours. Just does nt work that way. She has finally word one everything now and my input had become secondary.

what should I do? I have 8 years of website making and more people who loom at my work love it. Just feel like this is not worth doing it anymore.

A simple website has become a major pain in the ass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

92 answers to this question

  • 0

Posted

Well, I don't have a ton of web design experience, but in the past when I've dealt with this, I've made valid arguments as to why their ideas were bad. Are there reasons that their designs wouldn't be functional or would drive down usability? Would the changes greatly delay a much needed website launch? I would make these arguments if valid and go from there. You might win, or you might meet in the middle somewhere. And it depends as well what their responsibility is as it pertains to the website. Are they supposed to have some say in the redesign?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='M_Lyons10' timestamp='1366913911' post='595657936']
Well, I don't have a ton of web design experience, but in the past when I've dealt with this, I've made valid arguments as to why their ideas were bad. Are there reasons that their designs wouldn't be functional or would drive down usability? Would the changes greatly delay a much needed website launch? I would make these arguments if valid and go from there. You might win, or you might meet in the middle somewhere. And it depends as well what their responsibility is as it pertains to the website. Are they supposed to have some say in the redesign?
[/quote]

They have all say now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

Show them this

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

:shifty:
9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

Explain the costs out to them and how much you are going to charge them at the moment. If they want the whole thing re-doing then they will have to pay for it. Your time is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

It sounds like you need to sit down with her and both discuss how you think the website should be, and the best way to progress.

I created our companies website and was generally left to it when I started, I would gradually get feedback as it progressed. Some of the feedback was useful, some of the suggested changes I didn't agree with at all. You need to compromise and discuss why you don't agree with something, or why you think doing something a different way is better than what is been suggested to you and justify doing it your way.

I personally feel our companies website has benefited from different perspectives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

You need to remind them that they've hired you as the professional. The problem you're having is you're not exerting your professional stand point over them.

Be polite but be firm. This will happen a lot.
you should also be using scheduled payments for each stage of the design. They have to sign off on each stage so any changes of design are billable (which they would be any way). Work per hour as well, not per job.
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='ACTIONpack' timestamp='1366914324' post='595657952']
They have all say now.
[/quote]

If you've been paid up to this point, then you are good, and just continue to charge for work done.... At this point if so, I would assume you have an option, continue to work with them or fire the customer.

If you haven't been paid and they think they can just change the design around at no cost.. then you've got some issues.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

Make them clearly approve the design. In the contract clearly specify that any change to the design will cost money.

My first professional web site design something like 10 years ago (Fire fox 1.6 just had been released) went excatly like this.

[url="http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell"]http://theoatmeal.co...ics/design_hell[/url]

Did a design in Photoshop. Client (boss of the company) loved it A LOT. He was very positive about it. Coded the web site. Then when we were 2 weeks from publishing it the stupid marketing woman of the cie started to ask for "simple" changes. It took close to 1 month to get to where this stupid marketing woman wanted the web site to be (totally different than my design). I hated her and it was one of the worst working exp ever.

It's easier now that i have more exp (close to 10 years) people listen to me more and my designs are also better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='xendrome' timestamp='1366915533' post='595657988']
If you've been paid up to this point, then you are good, and just continue to charge for work done.... At this point if so, I would assume you have an option, continue to work with them or fire the customer.

If you haven't been paid and they think they can just change the design around at no cost.. then you've got some issues.
[/quote]

I get an hourly wage. It's not the problem. I take my design really serious. Everything was layout almost 6 months ago. Everyone love it, change I know would going to happen which was never a problem but now everything is changing. Just because she does not like it and she have final say. I'm now going to just apply to a new job because I personal can't do it anymore. I can't do this **** again and again. This site needed to be finish 6 months ago.

I took a stand 5 times and it does not matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='spacer' timestamp='1366916151' post='595658000']
These posts hit the nail on the head. Do NOT let a new party dictate scope-creep without making a stand. Put these new requirements in terms of hours and money that will be added to the budget. It's hard to argue with that. If you have competent management, that will be the end of it.
[/quote]

Absolutely. also make sure you're working with a water tight contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='InsaneNutter' timestamp='1366914818' post='595657976']
It sounds like you need to sit down with her and both discuss how you think the website should be, and the best way to progress.

I created our companies website and was generally left to it when I started, I would gradually get feedback as it progressed. Some of the feedback was useful, some of the suggested changes I didn't agree with at all. You need to compromise and discuss why you don't agree with something, or why you think doing something a different way is better than what is been suggested to you and justify doing it your way.

I personally feel our companies website has benefited from different perspectives.
[/quote]

I agree. Sometimes people have really ridiculous ideas that you have to get rid of. LOL But our website is the product of a lot of input from a lot of people. Some I've taken and used and some I haven't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='LaP' timestamp='1366916092' post='595657996']
Make them clearly approve the design. In the contract clearly specify that any change to the design will cost money.

My first professional web site design something like 10 years ago (Fire fox 1.6 just had been released) went excatly like this.

[url="http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell"]http://theoatmeal.co...ics/design_hell[/url]

Did a design in Photoshop. Client (boss of the company) loved it A LOT. He was very positive about it. Coded the web site. Then when we were 2 weeks from publishing it the stupid marketing woman of the cie started to ask for "simple" changes. It took close to 1 month to get to where this stupid marketing woman wanted the web site to be (totally different than my design). I hated her and it was one of the worst working exp ever.

It's easier now that i have more exp (close to 10 years) people listen to me more and my designs are also better.
[/quote]

LOL That link was hilarious.

When I was redesigning our website (The previous {horendous} site was done by someone else a few years prior who was still clutching his FoxPro), I had it almost completely finished. I just needed copy for some of the pages. In a meeting, someone in production (Not Marketing, or with any say whatsoever) turns to me and says "I have a good idea for the website. Doors. The page should be full of doors and each door will take you to a different page."... :| What do you even say? Not only that, but he was able to get everyone else on board with this moronic idea... Doors. What am I supposed to do with that??

Luckily, I was able to explain to everyone just how bad that would be and get everyone on board with my design again (Not that I wasn't already ignoring him anyway. lol).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='M_Lyons10' timestamp='1366919354' post='595658120']
LOL That link was hilarious.

When I was redesigning our website (The previous {horendous} site was done by someone else a few years prior who was still clutching his FoxPro), I had it almost completely finished. I just needed copy for some of the pages. In a meeting, someone in production (Not Marketing, or with any say whatsoever) turns to me and says "I have a good idea for the website. Doors. The page should be full of doors and each door will take you to a different page."... :| What do you even say? Not only that, but he was able to get everyone else on board with this moronic idea... Doors. What am I supposed to do with that??

Luckily, I was able to explain to everyone just how bad that would be and get everyone on board with my design again (Not that I wasn't already ignoring him anyway. lol).
[/quote]
LOL that was funny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

I actually found myself in a similar situation, but on the other end of the table. Maybe you should ask yourself, as a developer, if you're really the best architect. In most cases, the answer is usually a resounding no.

Far too many designers think they are good at creating a product. Unless you are that worried about your rep/ego, as long as you are covering your costs, the end result should be irrelevant. You are not the one driving the buggy, you are the horse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

http://www.romabio.com/

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which I told her that it just does not follow well in the header. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='ACTIONpack' timestamp='1366920986' post='595658172']
[url="http://www.romabio.com/"]http://www.romabio.com/[/url]

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which I told her that it just does not follow well in the header. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.
[/quote]

Nice looking site.

So, I might not quite understand. You want to change the logo and she wants to use the company's actual logo? Or has the logo been changed to remove these stars?

That's a tough one because, as far as branding goes, the logo really shouldn't be changed unless it's being updated everywhere...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

Nice site (Y)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

http://www.romabio.com/products/biocalce-antico/

That top black and gray bar, she wants to get rid of that. That bar breaks up the top header to the main content and it use for titles. It's one of the things that stand out about the site.

Although I agree branding but companies remove stuff off the logo to work in the to media that is being use.

[quote name='Neobond' timestamp='1366921941' post='595658212']
Nice site (Y)
[/quote]

The site is what I have now, it's going to change a lot after it's done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='ACTIONpack' timestamp='1366920986' post='595658172']
[url="http://www.romabio.com/"]http://www.romabio.com/[/url]

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which [b]I told her that it just does not follow well in the header[/b]. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter if it is pretty or not, doesn't matter how it flows....it is the company logo. You need it there the way it is on every form and business card, that is not your decision to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='Dashel' timestamp='1366920378' post='595658150']You are not the one driving the buggy, you are the horse.
[/quote]

Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

Nice site. Couple issues on Chrome.

Under the Science Information section. First off content isn't done, second all the options to the far right site, are cut off, but I can't scroll over to see them as they disappear.

Also the link text for the "Need a Technical...." is missing the T when hovered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='Mikeffer' timestamp='1366922295' post='595658222']
Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.
[/quote]
Yes and no. They hire to design, not change their property around....it is one thing putting a restroom that is accessable to everyone, it is another putting the restroom in the middle of the floor with glass walls because it looks better and everyone can appreciate the artistry of your restroom....which one would get you terminated? Just because you can design it right, doesn't mean that it is in the best interest of the company.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

I feel your pain. I had a client like this, and the amount of lost time put into it was becoming a real issue, so I sat down, I explained to them what I was originally asked to do, I showed them the emails where they were approving different parts of the design, and the overall original mockup.

When they came back at me with more idea, I told them why they were bad. If they still wanted to press forward, I would charge them. I then charged them a lump sum for the original design, and they were then charged an hourly fee.

Once their ideas were done, they didn't like them, and I again advised my original thoughts on the ideas, and most ideas were rejected by them again. The biggest issue was making them understand that this stuff isn't a click your fingers type scenario. It's time consuming work.

In the end I actually cracked the ****s and said something along the lines of "Guys, here's the deal. If people want [their product], they call you, because your'e the expert. If you've finished their product, do you allow them to keep changing it, even after they've approved the product every step of the way?". It was a solid no, so I told them that this was no different, and that if they kept wanting major changes, they needed to pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Posted

[quote name='Mikeffer' timestamp='1366922295' post='595658222']
Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.
[/quote]

Well, aesthetics is always a tough argument but you still don't 'own' the art or pick the overall style (remember, they 'signed off' on the original). Any illusion of control on something you don't own is simply that. More importantly though, you still aren't an architect. Its a subtle but important distinction. They didn't hire you to create a workflow, they hired you to implement a work flow in a pleasing, functional manner within [i]their [/i]parameters.

Micro-managing and indecision is one thing, but I'll never understand devs complaining about 'more' work and new projects.

Or would a tattoo parlor be a better analogy... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.