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#16 Dashel

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:06

I actually found myself in a similar situation, but on the other end of the table. Maybe you should ask yourself, as a developer, if you're really the best architect. In most cases, the answer is usually a resounding no.

Far too many designers think they are good at creating a product. Unless you are that worried about your rep/ego, as long as you are covering your costs, the end result should be irrelevant. You are not the one driving the buggy, you are the horse.


#17 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:16

http://www.romabio.com/

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which I told her that it just does not follow well in the header. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.

#18 M_Lyons10

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:25

http://www.romabio.com/

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which I told her that it just does not follow well in the header. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.


Nice looking site.

So, I might not quite understand. You want to change the logo and she wants to use the company's actual logo? Or has the logo been changed to remove these stars?

That's a tough one because, as far as branding goes, the logo really shouldn't be changed unless it's being updated everywhere...

#19 Steven P.

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:32

Nice site (Y)

#20 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:34

http://www.romabio.c...iocalce-antico/

That top black and gray bar, she wants to get rid of that. That bar breaks up the top header to the main content and it use for titles. It's one of the things that stand out about the site.

Although I agree branding but companies remove stuff off the logo to work in the to media that is being use.

Nice site (Y)


The site is what I have now, it's going to change a lot after it's done.

#21 sc302

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:36

http://www.romabio.com/

Here is the website I'm working with. She wants to put back the stars in the logo which I told her that it just does not follow well in the header. The star was always back of the logo but I could never design a header that would look go around the stars. It just offset the whole header.

Doesn't matter if it is pretty or not, doesn't matter how it flows....it is the company logo. You need it there the way it is on every form and business card, that is not your decision to make.

#22 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:38

You are not the one driving the buggy, you are the horse.


Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.

#23 firey

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    F͎̗͉͎͈͑͡ȉ͎̣̐́ṙ͖̺͕͙̓̌è̤̞͉̟̲͇̍̍̾̓ͥͅy͓̍̎̌̏̒

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:38

Nice site. Couple issues on Chrome.

Under the Science Information section. First off content isn't done, second all the options to the far right site, are cut off, but I can't scroll over to see them as they disappear.

Also the link text for the "Need a Technical...." is missing the T when hovered.

#24 sc302

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:42

Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.

Yes and no. They hire to design, not change their property around....it is one thing putting a restroom that is accessable to everyone, it is another putting the restroom in the middle of the floor with glass walls because it looks better and everyone can appreciate the artistry of your restroom....which one would get you terminated? Just because you can design it right, doesn't mean that it is in the best interest of the company.

#25 Nashy

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:44

I feel your pain. I had a client like this, and the amount of lost time put into it was becoming a real issue, so I sat down, I explained to them what I was originally asked to do, I showed them the emails where they were approving different parts of the design, and the overall original mockup.

When they came back at me with more idea, I told them why they were bad. If they still wanted to press forward, I would charge them. I then charged them a lump sum for the original design, and they were then charged an hourly fee.

Once their ideas were done, they didn't like them, and I again advised my original thoughts on the ideas, and most ideas were rejected by them again. The biggest issue was making them understand that this stuff isn't a click your fingers type scenario. It's time consuming work.

In the end I actually cracked the ****s and said something along the lines of "Guys, here's the deal. If people want [their product], they call you, because your'e the expert. If you've finished their product, do you allow them to keep changing it, even after they've approved the product every step of the way?". It was a solid no, so I told them that this was no different, and that if they kept wanting major changes, they needed to pay for it.

#26 Dashel

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:49

Got to disagree with you here. There's a reason a company hires a designer, it's to be the one in charge of the design. That's why it is your profession and not theirs.


Well, aesthetics is always a tough argument but you still don't 'own' the art or pick the overall style (remember, they 'signed off' on the original). Any illusion of control on something you don't own is simply that. More importantly though, you still aren't an architect. Its a subtle but important distinction. They didn't hire you to create a workflow, they hired you to implement a work flow in a pleasing, functional manner within their parameters.

Micro-managing and indecision is one thing, but I'll never understand devs complaining about 'more' work and new projects.

Or would a tattoo parlor be a better analogy... ;)

#27 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:51

Yes and no. They hire to design, not change their property around....it is one thing putting a restroom that is accessable to everyone, it is another putting the restroom in the middle of the floor with glass walls because it looks better and everyone can appreciate the artistry of your restroom....which one would get you terminated?


Totally agree. I should refresh the page before i reply!
With regards to the logo, this is my biggest bugbear. Especially when you're handed a s**** clip art thing and you're expected to design a beautiful site around it. It's at this point when you've got to be honest and let them know and try to sell them a new logo. But if they have a decent logo then and they want to use it, then no matter how much you may hate it, that's their brand and that's what you are going to end up having to use.

Although in regards to the 'rest room' example above. If you hired a professional architect to remodel your building, they wouldn't do this, as neither would a professional designer.

#28 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:52

Well, aesthetics is always a tough argument but you still don't 'own' the art or pick the overall style. More importantly though, you still aren't the architect. Its a subtle but important distinction. They didn't hire you to create a workflow, they hired you to implement a work flow in a pleasing, functional manner.


The look and style was already finish.

#29 svnO.o

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:53

Yes and no. They hire to design, not change their property around....it is one thing putting a restroom that is accessable to everyone, it is another putting the restroom in the middle of the floor with glass walls because it looks better and everyone can appreciate the artistry of your restroom....which one would get you terminated? Just because you can design it right, doesn't mean that it is in the best interest of the company.


Agreed. Also my last job doing contract web development with a web design company their philosophy was this: the client is always right. They are the ones paying for your service so while you can make suggestions, their decision is ultimately what you gotta stick with whether you like it or not. The customer always comes first. The web design company I was working with had over 200 clients following this philosophy.

#30 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:57

Well, aesthetics is always a tough argument but you still don't 'own' the art or pick the overall style. More importantly though, you still aren't the architect. Its a subtle but important distinction. They didn't hire you to create a workflow, they hired you to implement a work flow in a pleasing, functional manner.


As a professional designer you very much pick the style. If you're a professional web designer, as i am, you work with the client from wire-frames to production site working from the basics of colour pallets through to work flow and UX paradigms,
A common problem in the industry is clients assuming they know best because they have two eyes and apparently that's enough for them to know everything. A good designer should be allowed to continue with the job following the clients brief but not have the job dictated to them, just like a good architect should follow the brief but not be told to remove a structural wall because the client thinks it'll be better without.