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Reducing Windows 8 footprint


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#16 +_Alexander

_Alexander

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:48

That's not how it works...
Even if you turn the paging file off, Windows will allocate temporary space if it's needed.
The OP's sig says he has 12GB of RAM, so more than likely, Windows created a ~6GB paging file, which is basically wasted space.
On a regular HDD, disabling the paging file may cause your system to hang if Windows tries to allocate space, due to the long access times of HDDs. That problem doesn't exist on a SSD, so disabling it does nothing except save space.

I've disabled the paging file on all my PCs for years and years and never had a single problem.
The OP asked on how to save some space, and this is the simplest way to gain back a large chunk.


No, Windows does not allocate temporary space if needed. This is myth.
Windows will simply fail malloc requests once OOM - this causes hilarious issues with poorly coded software.

Also, I have no idea how to use more than 9GB RAM.
Even running the worst coded game of all time (Minecraft - ~7GB RAM), doesn't send me to 10GB.
So the page file is not needed.

Edited by _Alexander, 30 April 2013 - 05:49.



#17 xWhiplash

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:22

No, Windows does not allocate temporary space if needed. This is myth.
Windows will simply fail malloc requests once OOM - this causes hilarious issues with poorly coded software.

Also, I have no idea how to use more than 9GB RAM.
Even running the worst coded game of all time (Minecraft - ~7GB RAM), doesn't send me to 10GB.
So the page file is not needed.


I fill up every bit of my 16GB when I use Adobe After Effects and some very very very large Photoshop documents like to take up quite a bit of RAM too. Would you leave page file turned on in those cases?

I would not say Minecraft is the worst coded game of all time. At least it runs. Last time I tried playing The Amazing Spiderman on Steam, it crashed every 30 minutes. I gave up fighting with it. I wasted $60.

#18 primexx

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:25

I fill up every bit of my 16GB when I use Adobe After Effects and some very very very large Photoshop documents like to take up quite a bit of RAM too. Would you leave page file turned on in those cases?

I would not say Minecraft is the worst coded game of all time. At least it runs. Last time I tried playing The Amazing Spiderman on Steam, it crashed every 30 minutes. I gave up fighting with it. I wasted $60.


turning off page file is stupid in every case. there's a reason Windows doesn't already disable it automatically when it detects certain conditions, and the people who designed it that way sure as hell know a lot more about how Windows works than random people on the internet that repeat decades old snake oil advice. like _Alexander said, disabling the page file results in bad consequences when a poorly written program suddenly decides it needs it (not just because there's no memory left, some stuff uses the page file regardless). if you're finding that the space the page file takes up is a problem, what you need is a bigger drive.

#19 +_Alexander

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:43

turning off page file is stupid in every case. there's a reason Windows doesn't already disable it automatically when it detects certain conditions, and the people who designed it that way sure as hell know a lot more about how Windows works than random people on the internet that repeat decades old snake oil advice. like _Alexander said, disabling the page file results in bad consequences when a poorly written program suddenly decides it needs it (not just because there's no memory left, some stuff uses the page file regardless). if you're finding that the space the page file takes up is a problem, what you need is a bigger drive.

Reality check,
To write such a "poorly written program" you would have to explicitly research how to write to the page file.

Two additional things,
1. Running poorly written programs is generally not recommended for a variety of reasons.
2. Your lack of a concrete example of a useful piece of software that does this is contrary to your argument.


#20 primexx

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:15

Reality check,
To write such a "poorly written program" you would have to explicitly research how to write to the page file.

Two additional things,
1. Running poorly written programs is generally not recommended for a variety of reasons.
2. Your lack of a concrete example of a useful piece of software that does this is contrary to your argument.


easiest thing you'd have to do is write a program that requests an insane amount of RAM despite not intending to actually use any, that's not exactly hard to do. the existence or lack of an example has no bearing on the truth of the statement, its absence merely fails to offer direct evidence for it, that doesn't contradict anything stated at all. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, because a) I don't disable mine, and b) i try not to run ****ty programs. But you have to be dreaming to assume that every single thing that someone might need is properly written. in fact, is it not the case that the more niche and critical a piece of software is to someone's particular purpose, the more likely it is that it's poorly written? Not everything has readily available alternatives, and the ones that don't are especially likely not to be of high quality. Considering the fact that there's no benefit whatsoever in disabling the page, why would you go take such an unnecessary risk, whether it's likely to manifest or not? the bottom line is that it's pointless even if it's not harmful at all.

#21 +_Alexander

_Alexander

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:39

easiest thing you'd have to do is write a program that requests an insane amount of RAM despite not intending to actually use any, that's not exactly hard to do. the existence or lack of an example has no bearing on the truth of the statement, its absence merely fails to offer direct evidence for it, that doesn't contradict anything stated at all. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, because a) I don't disable mine, and b) i try not to run ****ty programs. But you have to be dreaming to assume that every single thing that someone might need is properly written. in fact, is it not the case that the more niche and critical a piece of software is to someone's particular purpose, the more likely it is that it's poorly written? Not everything has readily available alternatives, and the ones that don't are especially likely not to be of high quality. Considering the fact that there's no benefit whatsoever in disabling the page, why would you go take such an unnecessary risk, whether it's likely to manifest or not? the bottom line is that it's pointless even if it's not harmful at all.


The lack of evidence allows me to discard your statement without any evidence.
That is,
if you say "Although I have no evidence, Microsoft spies on its users through USB cameras" - there is no need for me to provide evidence for the contrary.
I can simply dismiss this assumption of yours without any evidence.

AFAIK malloc may actually allow a program to do that without allocating that amount of memory. That is it will only actually allocate that memory when it is being written to.

You said "suddenly decides it needs it (not just because there's no memory left" and now you are backing away from that statement.
"insane amount of RAM" is not explicitly manipulating the page file.

For a program swap and RAM are nothing more than a singular large pool of memory to use. I advocate only have the fast (RAM) memory without the slow (PF) memory for everyone who has a good or insane amount of memory.

When it comes down to it you are advocating running Windows in, essentially, "compatibility mode" to allow it to trash your HDD when a rouge and/or idiot made 64-bit application goes haywire instead of keeping the application entirely in memory
and killing it off sooner (before the Windows will start allocating more and more HDD space for the rouge application).

Thus, as an SSD and 32GB RAM user, I cannot agree with the statement that "there's no benefit whatsoever in disabling the page".



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