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I am not saying that you should never use your brain or be rational. I am saying that people overuse it as some excuse. If you over-think things that can be just as bad as not using your brain at all.

We live in a world and universe that works in a way that can be understood. In order to understand that world we have to use our brains to figure it out. As Iv stated before, we have never come across ANYTHING on our planet or the universe that has ever resulted in an explanation that would fit the supernatural. So turning our brains off because you are to ignorant or afraid to understand is not logical, rational or smart. So saying over thinking is "bad", is kind of dumb.

Being rational isn't something you can just turn on, your emotions go against that very part in your brain. Your brain isn't a computer, it is way more complex than that and you have emotions and other things that go into you making decisions.

Actually our brains are computers, more advanced ones but still essentially computers none the less.

You act like oh well its the 21st century and everyone is now a commander Data (from STNG), that isn't realistic.

Considering I never even remotely made such a claim, this would be an example of you not using your brain to even try to understand what I said.

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You must be reading the wrong Bible. It actually goes the opposite and says stay away from that stuff.

There are a lot of people just making stuff up in this forum.

Probably are, since I never seen fullfillment of 1Cor 12:28

Paul teaching actually in line with what Jesus promised at Mark 16:17-18.

But i never seen such promises manifested in so called 'church'.

So, you stay away from Jesus's promises too ?

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Why all the hostility toward one another? I thought this was the News area.

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The fact you keep pushing this point is enough to make anyone suspicious.

So when someone responds to me, that they don't believe me, and offer me suggestions as to why it could be fake, I'm not allowed to enter in to a discussion with them to clarify any points they've made, or to acknowledge what they've put forward as being reasonable? If you don't believe in this stuff, why do you feel I would actually care?

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There is a guy here in Brisbane who is known across the country as being very good. I was skeptical, so I waited the year to get into see him.

I had a photo, and we said nothing else, apart from how my day was etc. He told me things that not even my partner knows about me.

- How my father was killed

- Where my father was killed. I'm not talking a general area, he told me the exact suburb/township area

- What my father was carrying in his truck when he was killed

- He named my step father with the correct name

- And when I asked who was driving the truck when my father was killed, he responded with what our family had always believed

- Accurately predicted my unseen photo. He told me about the beard my father had in it, the hat I was wearing, and where we were sitting.

- Told me my father had Allan or Elsie there. I didn't know who he was talking about, so I was told to write it down, and ask someone who may know. He said it's Allan or Else, and she died of a stroke. It was my great grandmother.

When my mate's mother went to him:

- Predicted she would have a son with down syndrome - She did

- A few other things I'm not privy to that apparently were spot on the money

- Advised one of her friends that she had to leave as she couldn't be read. When asked, they were told he can't see a future. She died 2 weeks later.

- Was able to tell was was on the photos she had.

Another friend went to him

- Knew that she was currently going through a messy divorce and that her kids were not playing nice and taking the fathers side.

- Knew about the car troubles she was having (her car had major issues and was in my workshop for quoting of over $3000)

- Other info I'm not privy to that she said was correct.

- Was able to say what was on both of her photos exactly.

I was very skeptical. I made sure he didn't harvest me for information, in fact, he didn't even ask me questions except when he already had the answer. Eg. He was asking about my step father, he didn't ask questions first, he said "Who is Murray, the father figure after your dad?".

Where he put the photos was in a tea towel so there were no cameras.

It was under his house, nothing professional about where we were located or anything of that nature. After this reading, I seriously believe that a select few people have the ability to pick up on certain energies. I'm still a skeptic, but there is seriously no way he could have known so much about me.

Interesting.

I'm a skeptic, but I have had enough strange experiences (not with psychics) to know that there is something additional that we haven't yet vetted through science properly.

For instance, I'm sure this won't go over well in this thread, but me being a skeptic I tried using a Ouija board when I was in my teens. Of course, I heard all of the stories about how it was evil and yada yada, but I wanted to test it out. It was a strange period really. I played with a neighbor and had some strange results, but my conclusion was that the neighbor was pushing the device and messing with me so I tried it alone. I then wondered if I were moving the device on my own and in turn getting odd results because I was preconditioned to expect something. In the later stages I moved from the board to some form of paper to be sure there was no connection to the game itself (as that wouldn't make any sense).

There were some very strange things I can cite from those times. I remember being able to use the board to tell you what card someone else in another room completely outside of my view was holding, exactly (out of a normal deck of cards), and on the first try. After showing this to a few friends some vowed to never enter my house again, and never did. That wasn't the strangest thing to me though. The strangest thing was that as I progressed in stages, and before I gave it up, I started to feel like I wasn't alone, ever. As if someone was in the room standing there when no one was. What made me quit the whole ordeal though was a very strange experience I had. I was literally jolted away by something and when I woke up I heard, very clearly, simple commands "TV ON" then "TV OFF". When each one was said my TV on the other side of the room either went on or off and this lasted a few minutes getting faster. Needless to say I stopped after that as I was very concerned about what was occurring.

In hindsight, whatever I was dealing with I feel was simply validating what I was hunting for. I was trying to figure out was it all in my head and if any of it was real. That was a powerful showing that it wasn't all in my head and that there is something there.

Our world is VERY strange indeed.

What did I experience? I have no idea. I don't believe in ghosts, an afterlife, or etc.

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He said "define", not name. What makes a "good" psychic? Ones which makes vague enough statements that can't be demonstrated as false?

Well I can tell you for a fact that many special response units use them for finding people who are lost. There have been many cases here in Australia where a police psychic investigator has been able to locate missing persons. I used to be a skeptic but am certainly not anymore. There are definitely some people who can sense the presence of other people. There are of course the "bad" ones who aren't psychic at all, they just have rich daddies that can buy them air time on TV. The "good psychics" are the ones that help fight crime.

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The "good psychics" are the ones that help fight crime.

Cartman%27s_Incredible_Gift_scene.jpg

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I have never once read a news article in a respected paper about a psychic that has been able to track down people that are lost, or dead bodies - so I would highly appreciate sources.

As for ouija boards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykvd__Wv9po

..and once my brother told me and my parents that he had woken up that morning completely unable to move and felt like someone was sitting on him, but of course he didn't see anyone - and since he didn't have any scientific explanation for it, he thought it was somehow connected to the spirit world. I had never heard about anything of this nature before, and being the sceptic that I am (don't get me wrong, I want to believe in something mightier than us, but I'm not diluded) I googled my ass off ...and found a scientific explanation eventually: http://en.wikipedia....Sleep_Paralysis

Fact is - almost anything "supernatural" can be explained with science, or at least a little common sense (and that's my last input in this thread)

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Probably are, since I never seen fullfillment of 1Cor 12:28

Paul teaching actually in line with what Jesus promised at Mark 16:17-18.

But i never seen such promises manifested in so called 'church'.

So, you stay away from Jesus's promises too ?

The divine healing was from God to the Apostles in Acts. It was for that period of time. Nothing about Psychic powers or communicating with the dead or anything of that nature which is different.

And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

I don't see anything on here that says Psychic powers or anything like that for today.

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As for ouija boards:

Fact is - almost anything "supernatural" can be explained with science, or at least a little common sense (and that's my last input in this thread)

I seriously doubt this is true. Science never addresses anything paranormal because they close their eyes to it's existence. You can throw anything at a wall to make some "scientific excuse" but that is like taking a puzzle piece and trying to make it fit, it's not a satisfiable answer.

Real Intellectuals will know that Science does not have all the answers and if you think Science does, then you are either really ignorant or closed minded to the truth. There is more than this physical realm, it doesn't matter if you don't believe it or not, it is there and it is real.

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Maybe you sold read the parts of the bible that got removed, because it talked about spellcraft.

Or realize that the bible is a collection of very old stories collected and put together by people in power in order to get more power and create their vision. So even if you assume that all the stories are true. You also have to re,ember they where edited and put together by powerful people hundreds of years later in order to control the masses. And the bible consists of only a fraction of the manuscripts of the time, the very few manuscripts that tell the story a they want them to, after some interpretation and editing anyway.

Also from your sig, if god so loved the world, then why is belief in his son, the idol, the second god that breaks the commandments a requirement for him loving you back and giving you everlasting life.

Herei give you free will to do as you please because I love you, but if you don't do as I say and believe as I say, the you will go to hell.

Yeah, all about love,,,

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. . . For instance, I'm sure this won't go over well in this thread, but me being a skeptic I tried using a Ouija board when I was in my teens . . .

My wife used one, I'm not going to get into it, but, I'm just going to go ahead and say I believe you completely. People need to stay away from those things.

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It's a roll of the dice with psychic's, errrr I mean fortune tellers. Come on now. They're freakn' psychics not contractors.

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like I said, I'm not trying to convince anyone, simply stating what happened to me. I really don't care if you think im lying, I know I'm not.

I for one don't think you're lying, however you may have been tricked. You say he also saw friends and relatives of yours, did he see anyone you know before seeing you?

Perhaps the person who recommended you? Did they ever talk to him about you? Did you pay him by cheque, credit card etc? Was he alone when you saw him, or could there have been anyone else in the house?

There are some very clever ways to gather information on people prior to meeting, and even at short notice or while you are seeing them. Couple this our tendency to remember hits, and forget misses, and our generally terrible human memories... What you have left is a very subjective experience.

I'll ask you one question, if his knowledge comes from psychic powers, how can cold readers who admit to not having supernatural abilities replicate these feats?

I seriously doubt this is true. Science never addresses anything paranormal because they close their eyes to it's existence. You can throw anything at a wall to make some "scientific excuse" but that is like taking a puzzle piece and trying to make it fit, it's not a satisfiable answer.

Real Intellectuals will know that Science does not have all the answers and if you think Science does, then you are either really ignorant or closed minded to the truth. There is more than this physical realm, it doesn't matter if you don't believe it or not, it is there and it is real.

Actually people have tried to apply the scientific method to the supernatural constantly for quite some time, anything that turned out out to have any basis has long since been figured out and is no longer "super" natural.

What is left is the crap that no one can find any supporting evidence for. And it isn't through lack of trying.

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I for one don't think you're lying, however you may have been tricked. You say he also saw friends and relatives of yours, did he see anyone you know before seeing you?

Perhaps the person who recommended you? Did they ever talk to him about you? Did you pay him by cheque, credit card etc? Was he alone when you saw him, or could there have been anyone else in the house?

There are some very clever ways to gather information on people prior to meeting, and even at short notice or while you are seeing them. Couple this our tendency to remember hits, and forget misses, and our generally terrible human memories... What you have left is a very subjective experience.

I'll ask you one question, if his knowledge comes from psychic powers, how can cold readers who admit to not having supernatural abilities replicate these feats?

Actually people have tried to apply the scientific method to the supernatural constantly for quite some time, anything that turned out out to have any basis has long since been figured out and is no longer "super" natural.

What is left is the crap that no one can find any supporting evidence for. And it isn't through lack of trying.

The "friends' aren't really mates that know anything about me. One is my mate's Mum, and the other is our work cleaner. They don't know enough about me.

I may have been tricked, but honestly, I was so sceptical, I made sure all the tricks from douchebags like John Edwards didn't happen to me.

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The "friends' aren't really mates that know anything about me. One is my mate's Mum, and the other is our work cleaner. They don't know enough about me.

I may have been tricked, but honestly, I was so sceptical, I made sure all the tricks from douchebags like John Edwards didn't happen to me.

How did you make sure exactly?

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I for one don't think you're lying, however you may have been tricked. You say he also saw friends and relatives of yours, did he see anyone you know before seeing you?

Perhaps the person who recommended you? Did they ever talk to him about you? Did you pay him by cheque, credit card etc? Was he alone when you saw him, or could there have been anyone else in the house?

There are some very clever ways to gather information on people prior to meeting, and even at short notice or while you are seeing them. Couple this our tendency to remember hits, and forget misses, and our generally terrible human memories... What you have left is a very subjective experience.

I'll ask you one question, if his knowledge comes from psychic powers, how can cold readers who admit to not having supernatural abilities replicate these feats?

Actually people have tried to apply the scientific method to the supernatural constantly for quite some time, anything that turned out out to have any basis has long since been figured out and is no longer "super" natural.

What is left is the crap that no one can find any supporting evidence for. And it isn't through lack of trying.

What utter non-sense. That is complete garbage. Science is never about testing the paranormal. Science today is based on using the Scientific Method and about the physical reality here on Earth, they won't test anything else other than the natural world. It's a natural world based premise for them. Science will never admit there are possibilities beyond their grasp and beyond that of the natural world. I wish they would and had more of an open mind, but they would be too scared they would lose credibility if they did.

Its like you are going out of your way just to make things up.

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Science is based in reality, so stuff that exists outside of reality (i.e. doesn't actually exist) can't be tested.

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What utter non-sense. That is complete garbage. Science is never about testing the paranormal.
First you need to find a way of proving the paranormal actually exists and then you need to develop an entire new method for determining if claims about it are true or false.

Chop chop

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Maybe you sold read the parts of the bible that got removed, because it talked about spellcraft.

Spellcraft? Really? yeah, you really haven't read the Bible, have you?

It's fully discouraged.

Or realize that the bible is a collection of very old stories collected and put together by people in power in order to get more power and create their vision. So even if you assume that all the stories are true. You also have to re,ember they where edited and put together by powerful people hundreds of years later in order to control the masses. And the bible consists of only a fraction of the manuscripts of the time, the very few manuscripts that tell the story a they want them to, after some interpretation and editing anyway.

The fact that you think it's all about power means that you really have no idea what it's about. Has the Catholic church used it for power? Sure, that is totally true. However, the Bible isn't meant for power. It's not meant for controlling people. It's about a non-violent revolution of LOVE.

Think about things this way. Anything can be used for good or evil. I can use a car to drive to work, or I can run over people in a shopping mall. Now was that car built for evil and built to kill people? No of course not. That is my point and this is a failure of understanding of almost every Atheist on the planet. They don't understand humanity itself. They lack the entire concept of how humanity works, because if they did, they wouldn't be blaming religion for everything going wrong on the planet.

I have listened to Richard Dawkins time and time again talk about how bad religion is, but he never understands the difference with humanity itself. In all of the education he has, he is a complete fool in the understanding of humanity.

Also from your sig, if god so loved the world, then why is belief in his son, the idol, the second god that breaks the commandments a requirement for him loving you back and giving you everlasting life.

Jesus Christ is the sacrifice for our sins. He is God. He came down to change the world because Adam and Eve messed up. There was no sin in the world before the choice that gave us the planet we are currently living on. He came down 2000 years ago because there was going to be a huge increase in the amount of people on the Earth (currently we have 7 Billion people, more people than what has ever been on this planet).

I don't know what breaking commandments means.

Herei give you free will to do as you please because I love you, but if you don't do as I say and believe as I say, the you will go to hell.

Yeah, all about love,,,

God gave us free will that is true. This allows people to choose who they are for. However, Hell wasn't meant for people, it was meant for Satan and his angels. If you are not for God, who are you for? You have to choose who you will vote for, either you chose God or you choose Satan. If you don't vote for God, you have already voted for Satan. Therefore you already have made a choice. Everyone on this planet will have to vote who they will worship, even if you don't want to vote you have to vote for someone.

In California, I am wanting to be independent, but they make me register either as a Republican or a Democrat, I can't make a choice for anything else other than those two.

Anyway, I don't want to talk about religion in a thread that has nothing to do with it.

First you need to find a way of proving the paranormal actually exists and then you need to develop an entire new method for determining if claims about it are true or false.

Chop chop

Yeah, that should get science right on it. Proof is irrelevant if the other party won't accept it.

Try giving those guys scientific based proof who believe that "Climate Change" isn't happening.

I am sure they will look at the scientific data and get right on it.

Again, you guys fail at understanding humanity, it's always been a big flaw with your ideas.

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Yeah, that should get science right on it. Proof is irrelevant if the other party won't accept it.

That's like asking a car mechanic to work on your network switches, Its the people proposing that the paranormal is real that have to prove it and then they need to find a way of proving that their particular beliefs about it are true because they cant all be right but can all be wrong
Try giving those guys scientific based proof who believe that "Climate Change" isn't happening.

I am sure they will look at the scientific data and get right on it.

Again, you guys fail at understanding humanity, it's always been a big flaw with your ideas.

People are entitled to their own beliefs.

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Science is based in reality, so stuff that exists outside of reality (i.e. doesn't actually exist) can't be tested.

Obviously, you can't test everything outside of the natural world, but there are certain things that can be tested.

They just won't do it. It involves politics and also perception.

Science has to hold to a certain agenda and dogma so that people will not lose confidence.

Its fear (not of the unknown, but the fear of people losing confidence and them losing credibility in their field and academia).

Science is never afraid of the unknown, but that's not so true of the losing confidence and losing their credibility and this is why they won't test

things outside of the natural world. This is why they have all agreed to just study the natural world. It's like a silent pact.

That's like asking a car mechanic to work on your network switches, Its the people proposing that the paranormal is real that have to prove it and then they need to find a way of proving that their particular beliefs about it are true because they cant all be right but can all be wrong

People are entitled to their own beliefs.

Again, what proof is enough to justify something is real? If the other party won't accept the proof, it's a waste of time.

It's really not a hard concept to understand.

You say "people are entitled to their own beliefs", but you actually don't believe this or you wouldn't be attacking people on this forum.

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I vote for Thor, he has a big hammer.

Obviously, you can't test everything outside of the natural world, but there are certain things that can be tested.

They just won't do it. It involves politics and also perception.

Science has to hold to a certain agenda and dogma so that people will not lose confidence.

Its fear (not of the unknown, but the fear of people losing confidence and them losing credibility in their field and academia).

Science is never afraid of the unknown, but that's not so true of the losing confidence and losing their credibility and this is why they won't test

things outside of the natural world. This is why they have all agreed to just study the natural world. It's like a silent pact.

...

This is nonsense btw.

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How did you make sure exactly?

He had my middle name, and I had a time and date to go there.

He could have quickly run a report on my rego number when I arrived I guess, but all that would have told him would be where I worked.

I didn't lead him into to anything, he didn't ask me things to get info out of me, unless he had already given me something. See my example of "Who is Murray, the father figure?"

Anyway, I'm about done going over this again, I'm sorry, but you can read my previous replies. I made another booking with him, but there is a year or so wait.

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The "friends' aren't really mates that know anything about me. One is my mate's Mum, and the other is our work cleaner. They don't know enough about me.

I may have been tricked, but honestly, I was so sceptical, I made sure all the tricks from douchebags like John Edwards didn't happen to me.

Hmm, did they know your full name? or your Mother's full name? Part of my job is doing background research on clients, we use the information gathered to lead conversations, create more memorable conversations/introductions and more quickly form professional relationships.

We use everything, from credit report information to online mentions of having moved house, whether or not they've recently lost a friend/family member, or hell whether or not they've got a new pet. With an extremely limited amount of data you can usually find a persons online accounts, and the information you can scrape from there is pretty extensive.

Another department in my company traces clients, using very limited data to find out as much as possible before passing to us. Again, the ease with which this information can be found is quite surprising. I think it would be quite easy to adapt our approach to cold reading.

What utter non-sense. That is complete garbage. Science is never about testing the paranormal. Science today is based on using the Scientific Method and about the physical reality here on Earth, they won't test anything else other than the natural world. It's a natural world based premise for them. Science will never admit there are possibilities beyond their grasp and beyond that of the natural world. I wish they would and had more of an open mind, but they would be too scared they would lose credibility if they did.

Its like you are going out of your way just to make things up.

The issue you seem to be having is with your definition of the paranormal. If someone tests a "paranormal" hypothesis, and finds evidence to support it, it is not paranormal. It simply becomes a natural process.

The very definition of paranormal precludes there being any scientific evidence. This doesn't mean no efforts have been made the find this evidence, quite the contrary.

*EDIT: And how would scientists lose credibility for discovering supernatural processes? They would be hailed as heroes, and win a Nobel prize! Any theories or hypotheses effected by the findings would simply be adapted to fit the new model, that is what science is about.

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