94 posts in this topic

The rental companies could just get codes to issue to renters, easy.

Now do these codes allow you to play indefinitely, or do they still expire? If they expire as spoken about earlier that completely destroys the currental rental ethos. Are these codes going to be supplied for every Xbox One game to EVERY rental company? There exists some smaller scale online based rental companies, see Boomerang Games for the UK. Are they printed or emailed, if printed who is footing the cost for them? Can rental discs be shared amongst friends? While not officially sanctioned by rental companies, I'm pretty sure people take current rentals to their friends house - Does that go back to the whole you need to be signed into your account to play the disc? Currently people can buy rentals to keep to own from Gamefly, will that still work? If so, what happens next do Gamefly need to supply you with another code for ownership of the disc?

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The rental companies could just get codes to issue to renters, easy.

How would that work though? Mail rental companies let you keep the game for as long as you want, providing your paying your monthly subscription. Do they issue a code that they then have to revoke when they get the disc back? They won't go for that, far too much costly admin involved. Will the code be time limited? They won't do that either, their subscribers can keep the games as long as they want.

The only practical solution is the one they currently use, so don't be surprised if they just don't carry games for the new console.

XBox One? Better start calling it XBoned. :p

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We don't have enough info on the details yet though. What if you can lend out a game but until you get it back you can't play it yourself? We honestly don't know what they'll do, they haven't said specifics yet so everyone is just guessing.

Actually we do. A friend can borrow your game disc, because you will not need it. But when he installs it on his Xbox One he will need to activate it before he can play it. He can not activate it because you have the "activation" code that came with the game attached to your Live account, so he will need to buy a license. Essentially repurchasing the game.

Here:

Phil Harrison tries (again) to clarify game ownership, second-hand sales and always-online in Xbox One

And here:

CVG Andy Robinson: "Just interviewed Phil Harrison. Reaffirmed that second hand games need to be repurchased"

And here:

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But they do not do that, that's not part of the rental ethos. You can rent a game from them and as long as you're paying your lovefilm subscription keep it for as long as you want. That would essentially "kill" the rental market, here you go guys pay the ?12 a month to us for your games rental package AND if you keep a game longer than 3 days you need to start paying ?1 a day :/

It depends on the terms that Microsoft or publishers set and we could see some innovative new approaches - there's no reason that rentals would have to be charged at a daily rate. The problem is that currently developers don't make money from rented games beyond the initial sale - the result is that companies like Lovefilm and GameStop are leeching money away from the gaming industry, away from the people creating the content. Most consumers don't even know it's happening.

I have no problem with people who are currently leeching off the gaming industry by renting games being asked to pay more to compensate developers. They are contributing no more to the gaming industry than people who simply pirate games.

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It depends on the terms that Microsoft or publishers set and we could see some innovative new approaches - there's no reason that rentals would have to be charged at a daily rate. The problem is that currently developers don't make money from rented games beyond the initial sale - the result is that companies like Lovefilm and GameStop are leeching money away from the gaming industry, away from the people creating the content. Most consumers don't even know it's happening.

I have no problem with people who are currently leeching off the gaming industry by renting games being asked to pay more to compensate developers. They are contributing no more to the gaming industry than people who simply pirate games.

Really? Pirating equal to renting? Rental companies do not get game discs for free, it has to be purchased all they do is give that stock to different people continually. Essentially you are saying if I lend my friends games I'm not "contributing to the gaming industry" :s

Gamefly have that awesome policy in place that DirtyLarry has been vocal about using that you can decide to buy the game you're renting directly from them if you want to keep it.

Renting/borrowing/temporarily owning is part of the human world, the games industry does not sit on a pedestal to sit and judge people who cannot afford to, but do still contribute money where they can to their hobby. If MS want to try and kill rentals fine, that's their roadmap, but to ever try and put pirates and people who rent even in the same room, not really fair.

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There introducing (at publisher's discretion) at transfer of ownership fee on used games.

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It depends on the terms that Microsoft or publishers set and we could see some innovative new approaches - there's no reason that rentals would have to be charged at a daily rate. The problem is that currently developers don't make money from rented games beyond the initial sale - the result is that companies like Lovefilm and GameStop are leeching money away from the gaming industry, away from the people creating the content. Most consumers don't even know it's happening.

I have no problem with people who are currently leeching off the gaming industry by renting games being asked to pay more to compensate developers. They are contributing no more to the gaming industry than people who simply pirate games.

Maybe with the current state of games people don't want to waste ?40 for a short, lowest common denominator, game. I buy what I want to buy, rent and use PS+ to get games I wouldn't even think of buying, I don't see how that is "leeching", publishers don't get my money whether I rent it or not.

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I really like this comment

"That makes no sense. An NFL game is a one-time game. A video game/movie/music CD is a PRODUCT you BUY and OWN.

Look up the First Sale Doctrine. You have every legal right to do whatever you want with your product. Sell it. Give it away for free. Use it as a frisbee or shiny drink coaster. Nobody can stop you from doing it, and certainly not any butthurt big companies whining that you just gave the game you PAID for already away to someone else and they didn't get a dime from it. Too bad.

These are products, not sporting events. These are like movies, books, comics, CDs, and every one of those mediums, with the SOLE exception of games, acknowledges that the second-hand market exists and is ALLOWED to exist.

You are not right about this. Just because a company acts big and tough does not mean you, the consumer, don't have a butt-load of protected legal rights to any product you pay in full for. You want to buy a used car? Go right ahead. You want to buy a used CD? Go right ahead. You want to buy a used comic book? Go for it. You want to buy a used video game? YOU CAN. You have every right to go right to ebay and sell or buy a game for whatever you wish to spend or ask for, and no company PR guy whining about it changes that reality"

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^ Absolutely. If MS try to restrict second hand sales in any way, they'll get reamed in court.

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There introducing (at publisher's discretion) at transfer of ownership fee on used games.

Introducing? This already existed for a lot of EA games.

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I can't see how Microsoft Fanboys are going to defend the practice of crippling a disk after it's installed onto your ACCOUNT, that's the important word here folks, it's not installed to your hardware, it's installed to your account. Let's say you rack up 15 games or so, and you're a hardcore gamer, and experience what a lot of other Xbox 360 users have experienced, the loss of your account to some hacker. Microsoft does it's classic blame dodging, and their abysmal support basically tells you your account is gone, your 15 games are gone with it, and they say, "Well just buy them again!". This doesn't look like an appealing situation.

Draconian DRM is generally frowned upon in the gaming community, and it looks like Xbox One is THE DRM system.

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No, discs are mass produced, if one game has an encryption key on the disc then every copy of that disc produced will have the same encryption key, you cannot do what you're talking about without making a brand new master for each disc, and the cost, time, machining and everything to do that makes it impossible.

Think Windows XYZ and product keys. I am not saying it's a good thing but it can be done. It can be as easy as scanning a QR code using Kinect. Rental companies can issue QR codes in similar fashion and you just hold up your smartphone/PC screen for Kinect to read.

How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.

I think a company that can put a hypervisor at the heart of a game console can easily think of something :laugh:. QR codes are not rocket science.

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I can't see how Microsoft Fanboys are going to defend the practice of crippling a disk after it's installed onto your ACCOUNT, that's the important word here folks, it's not installed to your hardware, it's installed to your account. Let's say you rack up 15 games or so, and you're a hardcore gamer, and experience what a lot of other Xbox 360 users have experienced, the loss of your account to some hacker. Microsoft does it's classic blame dodging, and their abysmal support basically tells you your account is gone, your 15 games are gone with it, and they say, "Well just buy them again!". This doesn't look like an appealing situation.

Draconian DRM is generally frowned upon in the gaming community, and it looks like Xbox One is THE DRM system.

You'd think.... I didn't really see anyone convincingly defending EA with SimCity, or Blizzard with Diablo 3. Heck, Blizzard are moving away from DRM with Diablo 3 on the PS3/PS4, tells you a lot.

The PS3 has it spot on with licensing/DRM, it's tied to hardware, up to 2 PS3s now (yes it was better when it was up to 5), and all the content can happily be played offline without any stupid check-ins.

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Maybe with the current state of games people don't want to waste ?40 for a short, lowest common denominator, game.

The "current state of games"? If you don't like them then don't play them. You make it sound like people have to suffer through them. Gaming is better than it's ever been and the production values have gone up exponentially, yet prices have remained virtually static (without even factoring in inflation).

As for price, games drop in price very quickly nowadays - the new Tomb Raider was released just a couple of months ago yet already it's only ?24 on X360; Halo 4 costs only ?19 and that's not much older. And expensive games are the price you pay for the convenience of a console. PC games are considerably cheaper and offer much better visuals and gameplay experience.

Obviously people should be wary of Microsoft restricting second hand sales, as it has the potential for abuse. Microsoft doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to XBLA, with its focus on advertising above that of supporting developers. However, Steam stands as a shining example of how restricting ownership can benefit gamers through cheaper prices, better community interaction and supporting the developers of games. And as long as Sony doesn't opt for the same restrictions it will keep Microsoft in check. It is up to individuals to decide whether the restrictions are a deal-breaker, though I suspect for most they won't be.

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"GameStop's president has offered his two cents on the next-generation used games market, explaining he is confident both Sony and Microsoft are happy to see it continue.

Speaking to Forbes, Tony Bartel reassured consumers that next-generation games will still be bought and sold on the pre-owned market, as console manufacturers appreciate it's a necessary facet of the marketplace.

?

It's a recognised way to make these games more affordable. All three new platforms understand that.

"Both Sony and Microsoft have said games can be resold and that's exactly what we anticipated," he said. "It's a recognised way to make these games more affordable. All three new platforms understand that.

"As people upgraded to PS3 they traded in their old systems and libraries, which is why Sony made the move to not support backwards compatibility with later iterations of PS3. That's why the 'buy, sell, trade' model works well. It enables people to purchase new games by trading in their old ones. We expect to see the same thing with this transition for PS4 and Xbox One. Trade-ins allow for a seamless transition."

Interestingly, Bartel revealed that 70 per cent of GameStop's $1 billion market sales comes from the sale of new games rather than pre-owned ones.Confusion reigned yesterday when sources first reported that the Xbox One wouldrequire mandatory installs, with anyone wanting to play a game on more than one machine forced to pay for it again. Thankfully, this was later clarified as a misunderstanding - you can play a game using your own account from any machine, though you can't share that game with others unless they're signed into your account or playing on the same machine.

So that's nice and clear, then. To try and cut through the confusion surrounding Xbox One, we've put together a list of things we know for certain which we'll be updating as more comes out.

The exact constraints placed upon the resale of games have yet to be revealed."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/gamestop-president-weighs-in-on-next-gen-pre-owned-games

How stupid do they think people are??

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The "current state of games"? If you don't like them then don't play them. You make it sound like people have to suffer through them. Gaming is better than it's ever been and the production values have gone up exponentially, yet prices have remained virtually static (without even factoring in inflation).

Gee what a surprise, the old "don't like it don't buy/play them" retort.

You completely missed my point which was I'm not going to spend ?40 on a game I'm not sure of, not all games get demos so the only way I can try it is by renting, but by doing this I'm some kind of leech.

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somehow this situation happens because Game Console start emulating PC 'behaviours', thats just my opinion of course.

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LOL, has anybody seen the disaster going on in N4G with their PS4 crap. Everybody is preassuring Microsoft to respond, i dont know why people are desperate wait till E3 its like 18 days from now. -_- lol i like the console its pretty neat, but im not desperate i swear some people LOL Patience in Virtue :p

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That does not really put anything to bed as far as the issue, it still prohibits the readily available access to used games. Unless you are going to create a new ID for every game and sell the ID With it.

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Install the game and the Licence will be put on ur gamertag.

Give the game to a friend to borrow, and that deauthorizes your license and puts it on his gamertag

When hes done, he gives the game back, and you reauthorize it. When its deauthorized it wont play.

That hopefully should be the way to do it.

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Gee what a surprise, the old "don't like it don't buy/play them" retort.

You completely missed my point which was I'm not going to spend ?40 on a game I'm not sure of

Then don't - just wait a month or two for it to drop in price or go on sale. The problem with traditional renting is that it doesn't reward the people making the game but instead takes money away from them. If publishers want to make money they need to make sure games are priced appropriately, as many people aren't willing to pay full price for them. Like I said, Steam has a good balance - you have a relatively high initial price with pre-order incentives for the eager fans, with substantial flash sales within a month or two of release.

It remains to be see how game rentals will be implemented and how much they'll cost, so we don't know how they'll compare to the current system. They might end up a similar price while supporting developers, in which case it's a win-win. I've never been a fan of cancerous businesses like GameStop, so I couldn't care less if they go under.

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Install the game and the Licence will be put on ur gamertag.

Give the game to a friend to borrow, and that deauthorizes your license and puts it on his gamertag

When hes done, he gives the game back, and you reauthorize it. When its deauthorized it wont play.

That hopefully should be the way to do it.

If the rumors are true, I hope this is how it works.

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I also think PS4 will also do something for used games, I mean if xbox has this stuff going on, wouldnt developers like it? and Make more games for the new Xbox

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You sir are a die hard ps fan. What are you doing here? All you have to say is negatives about the Xbox. Can we xboxers enjoy the news without any FUD or negatives being spilt?

You don't like the console fine (no one was forcing you to get it anyway)

You don't like the way it looks? (Fine too, nofu)

You don't like that Microsoft didn't only focus on games (ur a ps fan, you weren't going to buy the Xbox anyway)

Oh yeah, I love being able to do jack **** with a game that I beat. I cant sell it, or trade it to anyone, I can't rent it in a store to see if I like it before I buy it, I get to waste my money and be stuck with something I may hate forever! Works perfectly for the publishers, and Microsoft, sucks for the consumer. Thats the way they like it though, so what else is new.

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I also think PS4 will also do something for used games, I mean if xbox has this stuff going on, wouldnt developers like it? and Make more games for the new Xbox

I think it's pretty much given that Microsoft won't do it without Sony (unless they get massive deals from publishers).

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