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#31 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:17

Or they have a way for rentals to work and haven't revealed it. It wouldn't exactly be hard to do.


How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.


#32 spenser.d

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:21

How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.


Just because you don't see the solution doesn't mean there isn't one. Microsoft has solved far more complex problems than this.

#33 n_K

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:21

They really want to know if you can lend a game out, I bet you can, and I bet that as long as that game is lent out you can't play it either. I'm going to make a guess and say each disc has some encryption key on it, as with every console so far actually. That key is matched to your account, so if that same key is flagged on another account the first one could be turned off until the second one is uninstalled.

So, until your friend is done and uninstalled the game and gave you the disc back then your installed copy won't play. Just a guess though.

No, discs are mass produced, if one game has an encryption key on the disc then every copy of that disc produced will have the same encryption key, you cannot do what you're talking about without making a brand new master for each disc, and the cost, time, machining and everything to do that makes it impossible.

#34 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:23

Just because you don't see the solution doesn't mean there isn't one. Microsoft has solved far more complex problems than this.


You said it wouldn't exactly be hard to do so, so I simply asked you wondering why you thought that! Or I proposed a challenge to you, as rightly or wrongly my brain can't see an easy way to do it with how rental discs work.

#35 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:26

This is nothing to do with being a PS3 fan, etc. This is about Microsoft essentially killing off the second hand game market (or at least, reducing it's value somewhat).

Say I have a copy of 1 game on the shelf, and my friend has another. We can no longer just play each others games without having to be signed into the others account, or paying a fee. How is that a good thing?


Unfortunately retailers have exploited second-hand games to the point where they are deliberately undermining first-hand sales, which hurts developers. Companies like GameStop have taken billions of dollars away from the gaming industry and consumers haven't been made aware of what impact that has. Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.

How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.


Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.

#36 duddit2

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:29

Unfortunately retailers have exploited second-hand games to the point where they are deliberately undermining first-hand sales, which hurts developers. Companies like GameStop have taken billions of dollars away from the gaming industry and consumers haven't been made aware of what impact that has. Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.



Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.


This is a good example of someone using their brain and not jumping in with hate and anger, well done sir! :)

#37 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:30

Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.


Take Lovefilm for example, that's thousands of individual codes having to be printed for games, as they're an online based rental company it's a lot of work. These companies also allow you to rent and play for as long as you want, so if MS are going to start rubbing out the rental companies ethos of own for as long as you want, that's yet again another headache.

Doesn't gamefly allow you to buy your rental and keep it at a cost? What happens there? I see DirtyLarry occasionally keeping his rentals permanently by paying $40+ to keep the rental and actually own it.

Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.


Good luck if you think what MS is about to do is going to offer you steam like prices, steam like DRM (complete offline play with NO restrictions) and steam like sales. Comparing consoles to steam/origin always falls off a cliff somewhere.

#38 spenser.d

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:30

You said it wouldn't exactly be hard to do so, so I simply asked you wondering why you thought that! Or I proposed a challenge to you, as rightly or wrongly my brain can't see an easy way to do it with how rental discs work.


So because you can't figure it out you answer people's questions saying it can't happen? That's awfully kind of you.

#39 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:34

So because you can't figure it out you answer people's questions saying it can't happen? That's awfully kind of you.


But you said you thought it was easy, or at least not hard, you've yet to bring anything to our discussion other than "MS can figure it out". WHY do you think it's easy?

Or they have a way for rentals to work and haven't revealed it. It wouldn't exactly be hard to do.


You're asking me to figure it out, yet you're not posting any suggestions of your own when I am at least pointing out what MS would have to navigate through.

#40 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:47

Take Lovefilm for example, that's thousands of individual codes having to be printed for games, as they're an online based rental company it's a lot of work. These companies also allow you to rent and play for as long as you want, so if MS are going to start rubbing out the rental companies ethos of own for as long as you want, that's yet again another headache.


Or they could just email them to you. And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly.

Good luck if you think what MS is about to do is going to offer you steam like prices, steam like DRM (complete offline play with NO restrictions) and steam like sales. Comparing consoles to steam/origin always falls off a cliff somewhere.


Publishers set the price of games, not Microsoft. If they can make more money by lowering prices then they will. But you're right, I don't expect that Microsoft's foray into digital distribution will be as good for gamers as Steam -- its record with XBLA suggests otherwise. However, that doesn't mean it will be all doom-and-gloom.

#41 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:49

Or they could just email them to you. And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly.


Or more likely they just wont stock Xbox One games because its too much hassle.

#42 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:50

Or they could just email them to you. And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly. Publishers set the price of games, not Microsoft. If they can make more money by lowering prices then they will. But you're right, I don't expect that Microsoft's foray into digital distribution will be as good for gamers as Steam -- its record with XBLA suggests otherwise. However, that doesn't mean it will be all doom-and-gloom.


But they do not do that, that's not part of the rental ethos. You can rent a game from them and as long as you're paying your lovefilm subscription keep it for as long as you want. That would essentially "kill" the rental market, here you go guys pay the £12 a month to us for your games rental package AND if you keep a game longer than 3 days you need to start paying £1 a day :/ Can you imagine something like that coinciding with PS4 games continuing to work how PS3 games currently work when rented from Lovefilm? Even bigger disaster there than the one you'd have alone trying to charge people for keeping a game for a certain amount of time.

MS set development costs on Live though, as in patching/publishing fees which we already know from this gen developers aren't exactly chuffed about. Steam is nowhere near as entry cost expensive, hence lower RRPs, better sales and a lot more variety.

#43 MindTrickz

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:52

This is how it currently is.... A person can buy a game and lend that game to a friend once you are done with it. Heck you can even trade it. With the Xbox One, you can not lend your games to a friend; unless you give those friends access to your Live account. And something to remember is that your pressumably can not be logged into live at the same from the same account.


This essentially kills off sharing game with your friends. This was such a bad move from Xbox.

#44 spenser.d

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:53

But you said you thought it was easy, or at least not hard, you've yet to bring anything to our discussion other than "MS can figure it out". WHY do you think it's easy?



You're asking me to figure it out, yet you're not posting any suggestions of your own when I am at least pointing out what MS would have to navigate through.


Why do you think you can post nonsense without backing it up?

I said it was easy, as in easier than other things the company has tackled and definitely something they've considered during the dev process given the prominence of that industry. I don't have to come up with anything, you just need to stop answering questions you're assuming the answer to without any backing source. This isn't about me. You said it won't happen, and you just plain don't know that.

#45 +Audioboxer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:55

Why do you think you can post nonsense without backing it up?

I said it was easy, as in easier than other things the company has tackled and definitely something they've considered during the dev process given the prominence of that industry. I don't have to come up with anything, you just need to stop answering questions you're assuming the answer to without any backing source. This isn't about me. You said it won't happen, and you just plain don't know that.


I actually never said it won't happen (go find that quote), just unleashed a load of issues that have to be trawled through. I think most readers on here wouldn't exactly call the completely rational points I've made "nonsense", but okay.