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AnandTech: Xbox One vs. PS4 - Hardware comparison


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#271 cammy

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:12

I quite enjoyed Fable, Left 4 Dead, PGR, Trials HD :p

But I agree, Sonys exclusives had the upper hand.


Fable was fun, but Peter Molyneux lied to us again, L4D, had it on the PC, same as Alan wake really, not pure exclusives, Sony were able to make games with insane scale, scale you'd never see on a PC game because they couldn't guarantee it would run on a plethora of systems.

Well they're spending over a billion dollars on exclusives, which I believe they have fifteen of as of right now. I would say they're trying to make an effort.


What? Dancey Dance dance with dancing fitness dancing fitness happy family fitness dancy buzz word buzz word whatever is popular in society at the moment dance? lol

I'm just joking, I'd love to see some new, great games aimed at hardcore gamers, games with integrity, story and attention to detail!


#272 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:39

Something has been bothering me for a while now but I just couldn't find much answers to go by maybe someone here can help me look into it.

Microsoft quoted that they had 5billion transistors.....but it just doesn't add up:
32md of esRAM is 1.8billion transistors (roughly)
Amd's jaguar I put between 1.2 and 1.7billion (based on on the fact bulldozer has 1.2 transistor count)

1.8+1.7 = 3.5 so what's taking up the rest of the die? There's a whole 1.5billion transistors not counted for.
What is Microsoft hiding? I thought it weird that they would tout there transistor count without giving more details as if they were giving hints.



#273 Blackhearted

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:29

Something has been bothering me for a while now but I just couldn't find much answers to go by maybe someone here can help me look into it.

Microsoft quoted that they had 5billion transistors.....but it just doesn't add up:
32md of esRAM is 1.8billion transistors (roughly)
Amd's jaguar I put between 1.2 and 1.7billion (based on on the fact bulldozer has 1.2 transistor count)

1.8+1.7 = 3.5 so what's taking up the rest of the die? There's a whole 1.5billion transistors not counted for.
What is Microsoft hiding? I thought it weird that they would tout there transistor count without giving more details as if they were giving hints.


It should be obvious what you forgot from the equation.

The GPU.

Don't know how you could manage to forget it.

#274 +_Alexander

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:44

Isn't PS3 faster than xbawks 360?
Yes, somehow, magically, xbawks 360 has more games.

Seems like the case again.


#275 Emn1ty

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:01

So you played MGS4, Uncharted 1,2 and 3, infamous 1&2, Killzone series, God of war, Little big planet 1&2, MAG, Heavy rain, Resistance series and Gran Turismo 5 then? (admittedly GT5 wasn't so great) But Sony put way more effort, time and money into making great games, We still have The last of us, GT6 and beyond two souls to come, Sony are treating us. What did Microsoft get? they gave us Halo (which I enjoyed) then lost Bungie and now they have what? Forza and Alan wake? That's the only two great exclusives I played on the Xbox, I can't even think of anything else, and Alan wake almost never happened at all. I really hope MS make more of an effort, I don't really care where I play my multiplatform games, unless the difference is significant, so why would I pick an Xbox with no exciting prospects? I really hope they Have some nice exclusives for the Xbox, I really do, I want great games to play.

I doubt that was "off the top of your head". But sure. I really could care less about exclusives and honestly I didn't like MGS4, Uncharted, God of War, MAG, Heavy Rain, Resistance or GT5 (horrible controls).

And don't forget that ME was originally a 360 exclusive. Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza, Ace Combat 6, Crackdown, DOA4.

What is with the ridiculous amount of hate towards the new Xbox? I just don't understand the frenzy that's going on.

#276 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:02

yep you can bet that was a very nice addition to the discussion. anyways, I see that you and a lot of people are going by one little guestimation and so getting your 1.23tflops. and that is guessing that the xbox One is running at the same clock speed that the ps4 is running at which is 1.6Ghz. but a lot people forget that the AMD processor can go 2Ghz. so Microsoft could have a different clock speed that sony.

All we know is that it is an AMD Jaguar, the PS4 could have it clocked to 2GHz also.

Something has been bothering me for a while now but I just couldn't find much answers to go by maybe someone here can help me look into it.

Microsoft quoted that they had 5billion transistors.....but it just doesn't add up:
32md of esRAM is 1.8billion transistors (roughly)
Amd's jaguar I put between 1.2 and 1.7billion (based on on the fact bulldozer has 1.2 transistor count)

1.8+1.7 = 3.5 so what's taking up the rest of the die? There's a whole 1.5billion transistors not counted for.
What is Microsoft hiding? I thought it weird that they would tout there transistor count without giving more details as if they were giving hints.

Bulldozer is just the CPU, Jaguar is CPU and GPU, you are also forgetting the four Move Engines. The PS4 is speculated to have approximately 3 billion transistors, subtract the extra transistors for the better GPU add on ESRAM and Move Engines and theres your 5 billion.

Also thanks to your constant negativism against anything Microsoft ;)

I don´t know if is so so difficult to have both platforms and enjoy them like a true gamer, it is a $$ problem? living room space problem?

Didn't realise being negative wasn't allowed. I go by facts not by what my feelings are, I love talking about technology and am super excited about the next generation of consoles.

I was going to get both, I got a 360 at launch and got rid of it in 2011 when I bought PS3 not long before and realised what I was missing out on.

TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, Sports, Sports, TV, TV, Call a doody, Call a doody, Call a doody, TV, TV, mandatory kinect, all the fuss over wether or not it is going to block used games, all the fuss wether or not you need to be connected to the internet for it to work, doesn't interest me, I don't need a $400-500 TV Box, I use XBMC for all my media consuming needs.

#277 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:27

It should be obvious what you forgot from the equation.

The GPU.

Don't know how you could manage to forget it.


The GPU isn't separate from the processor so the transistor count shouldn't be much different

#278 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:42

It is with Bulldozer. A quad core A8 chip which has Bulldozer core and AMD 3850 is 1.5B transistors. Jaguar has 8 cores and a 7xxx series. The closest GPU for arguments sake is 7770 which has 1.5B transistors.

An 8 Core Bulldozer has 1.2B Transistors add on 1.5B for the 7770, 1.8B for ESRAM and you are talking 4.5B, not sure what the count is on the Move Engines but that is your 5Billion transistors there, no magic extra logic that is going to bridge a massive performance deficit.

#279 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:32

All we know is that it is an AMD Jaguar, the PS4 could have it clocked to 2GHz also.

Bulldozer is just the CPU, Jaguar is CPU and GPU, you are also forgetting the four Move Engines. The PS4 is speculated to have approximately 3 billion transistors, subtract the extra transistors for the better GPU add on ESRAM and Move Engines and theres your 5 billion.


Didn't realise being negative wasn't allowed. I go by facts not by what my feelings are, I love talking about technology and am super excited about the next generation of consoles.

I was going to get both, I got a 360 at launch and got rid of it in 2011 when I bought PS3 not long before and realised what I was missing out on.

TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, Sports, Sports, TV, TV, Call a doody, Call a doody, Call a doody, TV, TV, mandatory kinect, all the fuss over wether or not it is going to block used games, all the fuss wether or not you need to be connected to the internet for it to work, doesn't interest me, I don't need a $400-500 TV Box, I use XBMC for all my media consuming needs.


1) Actually the PS4 can't be clocked at 2ghz also because they already quoted their tflops as 1.84tflops. If if it was a 2ghz chip then the tflops would shoot up to 2.3

Yeah I left out the GPU. At first I didn't think it would add much in the way of transistor count. But the 7790 and 7850 amd cards has 2billion transistors each so 2billion GPU 1.8billion esram 1.2billion CPU that's 5billion on the dot. However this doesn't count the move engines. Unless Microsoft used the extra transistors from the 16 ROPs for the move engines. Seeing that less rops I believe Microsoft should be able to raise the gpus clock speed. (And overclocked 7790 with 16rops is faster than a 7850 with 32rops). Anyways there's a lot about the Xbox one we don't know but we're just guesstimating. The size of the heatsink Microsoft is using is huge I definitely believe they're using higher clock speeds for both CPU and GPU.

Nope you go on rumors too. I've read many of your comments that went all "rumors are facts". And Larry hyrd said that e3 is all about games that there will be TVs on stage but that's the extent in which they'll talk about tv. So yeah you can go check his tweets if you don't believe. So they got out all the tv stuff out the way so now it's going to be all about games.

#280 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:53

Why can't the CPU be clocked at 2GHz, 1.84TF count is for the GPU only.

Xbox GPU isn't a 7790, the 7790 has 896 Cores, it is somewhere between 7770 and 7790 but closer to the former rather than the latter.

Not sure how you figure that an overclocked 7790 (which the Xbox GPU isn't) is faster than 7850. The 7850 has 256-bit memory bus compared to 7790 128-bit, 7850 60% more memory bandwidth, 70% higher pixel rate, twice the number of ROPS. The 7790 is clocked at 1GHz vs 7850 850MHz but is still slower.

OK I go on rumours, but I don't make up stuff like you do about there being some magic extra logic that you are hoping might be there, or that Microsoft might have clocked the CPU/GPU faster than the PS4, I am going from the information that is out there.

I know E3 is about games, I was explaining to Draken why I won't be buying Xbox.

#281 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 13:27

Why can't the CPU be clocked at 2GHz, 1.84TF count is for the GPU only.

Xbox GPU isn't a 7790, the 7790 has 896 Cores, it is somewhere between 7770 and 7790 but closer to the former rather than the latter.

Not sure how you figure that an overclocked 7790 (which the Xbox GPU isn't) is faster than 7850. The 7850 has 256-bit memory bus compared to 7790 128-bit, 7850 60% more memory bandwidth, 70% higher pixel rate, twice the number of ROPS. The 7790 is clocked at 1GHz vs 7850 850MHz but is still slower.

OK I go on rumours, but I don't make up stuff like you do about there being some magic extra logic that you are hoping might be there, or that Microsoft might have clocked the CPU/GPU faster than the PS4, I am going from the information that is out there.

I know E3 is about games, I was explaining to Draken why I won't be buying Xbox.


ok let me just say this now: I've seen you posted things which gave me the idea that you knew what you were talking about, but now I think I've changed my mind about that. I mean, you don't even know how they reached those teraflops numbers.

how do they reach the tflops? the ps4 has 1152 stream processors (GPU) and is running at 1.6ghz cpu speed: that's 1152x1.6 = 1.843tflops (single precision)
the xbox One has 768 stream processors (GPU) and is rumored to be running at 1.6ghz cpu speed: that's 768x1.6 = 1.23tflops (single precision)
that's how the TFLOPs numbers, the processor speed is accounted for. If I am wrong prove it.

quoting TFLOPs now a days doesn't really say much because it doesnt' take into account other things like GPU frequency, bandwidth, latency, architecture differences. therefore these TFLOPs numbers are more a ballpark figure if anything.

how do I know because I looked at the overclock reviews that's how I know an overclocked 7790 beats a 7850. Plus Sony 7850 is underclocked.

I also think sony might be having heat issues because they're using a lower gpu clock speed from 860mhz to 800mhz.
plus the 7850 uses amd's GCN v1 while the 7790 uses amd's GCN v1.1 (updated architecture remember tflops numbers doesn't take this into account).
the 7850 has a 150w TDP while the 7790 has an 85w TDP
GDDR5 runs much much hotter than DDR3 and uses much more power

The fast esram would take care of any bandwidth bottleneck. Also esram is way less power hungry than the edram used in the 360.

So far it seems the Xbox one should run much cooler and quieter than the ps4 and use way less power. Unless Microsoft changed the estimated clock speeds which would explain the large heatsink and fan.

#282 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 14:16

ok let me just say this now: I've seen you posted things which gave me the idea that you knew what you were talking about, but now I think I've changed my mind about that. I mean, you don't even know how they reached those teraflops numbers.

how do they reach the tflops? the ps4 has 1152 stream processors (GPU) and is running at 1.6ghz cpu speed: that's 1152x1.6 = 1.843tflops (single precision)
the xbox One has 768 stream processors (GPU) and is rumored to be running at 1.6ghz cpu speed: that's 768x1.6 = 1.23tflops (single precision)
that's how the TFLOPs numbers, the processor speed is accounted for. If I am wrong prove it.

quoting TFLOPs now a days doesn't really say much because it doesnt' take into account other things like GPU frequency, bandwidth, latency, architecture differences. therefore these TFLOPs numbers are more a ballpark figure if anything.

how do I know because I looked at the overclock reviews that's how I know an overclocked 7790 beats a 7850. Plus Sony 7850 is underclocked.

I also think sony might be having heat issues because they're using a lower gpu clock speed from 860mhz to 800mhz.
plus the 7850 uses amd's GCN v1 while the 7790 uses amd's GCN v1.1 (updated architecture remember tflops numbers doesn't take this into account).
the 7850 has a 150w TDP while the 7790 has an 85w TDP
GDDR5 runs much much hotter than DDR3 and uses much more power

The fast esram would take care of any bandwidth bottleneck. Also esram is way less power hungry than the edram used in the 360.

So far it seems the Xbox one should run much cooler and quieter than the ps4 and use way less power. Unless Microsoft changed the estimated clock speeds which would explain the large heatsink and fan.

That's rich, telling me I don't know what I am talking about, you don't even know how you work out TFLOPs number.

For GCN (Graphics Core Next) to calculate TFLOPS first you need to find out the Cores

SIMDS * CU = Stream Processors, or Cores if you like

Cores * Core Clock Speed (stream processors not CPU clock) * 2 (Multiply/Add instructions, MAD, or basically how much work the cores can do per thread) = Gigaflops

PS4
64 * 18 = 1152 Cores

1152 * 800 * 2 = 1843 GFLOPS

1843GF = 1.84TF

Xbox One
64 * 12 = 768 Cores

768 * 800 * 2 = 1228 GFLOPS

1228GF = 1.23TF

We know the Xbox and PS4 are using GCN 1.0 since there has been engineers who worked on both AMD APUs putting the information in the Linked-in profiles and twitter which I think have been removed now. Which is why I said the Xbox GPU is closer to 7770 than 7790.

It's also worth noting that neither console will be using desktop GPUs, they are probably based on mobile versions so comparing TDP is moot. I only said 7770 and 7850 as they are relatively comparative to the GPU in both consoles.

ESRAM helps avoid bottlenecking but I am not convinced that it will totally eliminate it considering 32MB is pretty much GPU framebuffer.

I agree the Xbox One will run quieter and cooler.

#283 Athernar

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 14:37

Don't forget as well that Jaguar is based on the 3rd-generation "Steamroller" design. So between that and Piledriver there is probably a slight increase in transistors over Bulldozer that may account for some of the discrepancy.

#284 Blackhearted

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 15:53

how do I know because I looked at the overclock reviews that's how I know an overclocked 7790 beats a 7850. Plus Sony 7850 is underclocked


I'm curious where those reviews you claim show a 7790oc beating a 7850 are, cause i sure can't find one. Of course, it doesn't really matter though, since the one isn't a 7790 anyway.

#285 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 16:39

That's rich, telling me I don't know what I am talking about, you don't even know how you work out TFLOPs number.

For GCN (Graphics Core Next) to calculate TFLOPS first you need to find out the Cores

SIMDS * CU = Stream Processors, or Cores if you like

Cores * Core Clock Speed (stream processors not CPU clock) * 2 (Multiply/Add instructions, MAD, or basically how much work the cores can do per thread) = Gigaflops

PS4
64 * 18 = 1152 Cores

1152 * 800 * 2 = 1843 GFLOPS

1843GF = 1.84TF

Xbox One
64 * 12 = 768 Cores

768 * 800 * 2 = 1228 GFLOPS

1228GF = 1.23TF

We know the Xbox and PS4 are using GCN 1.0 since there has been engineers who worked on both AMD APUs putting the information in the Linked-in profiles and twitter which I think have been removed now. Which is why I said the Xbox GPU is closer to 7770 than 7790.

It's also worth noting that neither console will be using desktop GPUs, they are probably based on mobile versions so comparing TDP is moot. I only said 7770 and 7850 as they are relatively comparative to the GPU in both consoles.

ESRAM helps avoid bottlenecking but I am not convinced that it will totally eliminate it considering 32MB is pretty much GPU framebuffer.

I agree the Xbox One will run quieter and cooler.

I see you pegged both CPUs at 2ghz correct?

for Microsoft the only thing that has been confirmed so far is the 768 stream processors in the gpu. no clock speeds, no frequencies, no tflops. we're all basing this off rumors, conjectures and leaks. if the xbox one do happen to be what all these rumors and leaks say then so be it. sony did mod the gpu by adding an extra bus lane. I wondering why no one things Microsoft won't mod theirs also.