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New evidence released from Trayvon Martin's cellphone

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#31 xendrome

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 19:37

Self Defense goes both ways. Who was more affriad, the guy doing the stalking or the one being stalked? The guy who was armed and knew what he was up against, or the teenager who wasn't and was be followed and confronted?

Zimmerman already has a checkered past, that is on record. We don't have to jump to conclusions from photos or facebook post, because Zimmerman has actually been in conflict with the law and others through his actions.

I'm not saying I was there, but it isn't hard to think logically and see where and who is mostly at fault. If you can't, you are pretty blind to human nature and other such ways to our behavior and how we apply the law.


Self Defense does not go both ways. It is clearly defined when deadly force can be used - http://www.leg.state.../0776/0776.html your definition of "who was more afraid" is so far off base it's not even funny.


#32 shakey

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 19:40

Self Defense does not go both ways. It is clearly defined when deadly force can be used - http://www.leg.state.../0776/0776.html your definition of "who was more afraid" is so far off base it's not even funny.


Explain then. How am I off on it? Easy to just dismiss something without backing it up with an actual arguement.

Teenager being followed at night by someone. Teenager confronted by that person. How would you 'feel" during that? Would you be scared or try and hug them?
Man following teenager. Man is armed. Man confronts teenager. Does someone who is scared of someone normally confront them? Or does someone who feels they are more in control of the situation more likely to try and confront?
When I said self defense goes both ways, it was to mean that if we are to assume Zimmerman was right to defend himself, we are to assume that Trayvon was just as much in the right to defend himself. Self Defense, not deadly force, is OK when you feel that your life is in danger. Deadly Force is what self defense escalates to when you can't stop what is happening and are facing serouise grievous harm and the only way to stop it is by taking the other's life.
So yes, please, explain yourself.

#33 xendrome

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 19:42

Explain then. How am I off on it? Easy to just dismiss something without backing up it up an actual arguement.


Read the state statute, I can't explain it any clearer then that. It is written clearly and defines when deadly force can be used and the aggressor definitions also.

#34 Enron

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 19:48

What kind of cellphone did he have?

#35 shakey

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 19:55

Read the state statute, I can't explain it any clearer then that. It is written clearly and defines when deadly force can be used and the aggressor definitions also.


And I just explained what it says.

In the United States of America, stand-your-ground law states that a person may justifiably use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of an unlawful threat, without an obligation to retreat first. The concept sometimes exists in statutory law and sometimes through common law precedents. One key distinction is whether the concept only applies to defending a home or vehicle, or whether it applies to all lawfully occupied locations.

Trayvon tried to get away, but was followed and confronted. What part of him feeling endangered would not constitute him defending himself? I don't think you are looking at this both ways.... You are saying Zimmerman had the right to defend himself, but are basically saying that Trayvon didn't. Let's say Trayvon did start the fight.... Who's to say it it wasn't in self defense to the actions that Zimmerman did, making Trayvon feel endangered and without any way to retreat.... Hense, self defenes in this can go both ways. It's amazing what can happen when you put your mind to it. You can see almost all options, and see how the actions of 1 lead to maybe both of them being wrong. But in the end, the actions of 1 are what lead to the death of the other. That is what they will get Zimmerman with.

#36 xendrome

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 20:15

You are saying Zimmerman had the right to defend himself, but are basically saying that Trayvon didn't.


Defend from bashing head in, does not = Defend from being "followed". You are still totally missing the point

Being followed and having your head smashed into the ground are 2 different levels of aggression, they do not both equal the same response of force as each other.

That's what I am saying.

#37 MDboyz

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 20:25

Unless he is still value for political for jesse jackson, al sharpton, or obama; otherwise, right now he is just another thug who sadly got shot.

#38 Clirion

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:00

Trayvon tried to get away, but was followed and confronted. What part of him feeling endangered would not constitute him defending himself? I don't think you are looking at this both ways.... You are saying Zimmerman had the right to defend himself, but are basically saying that Trayvon didn't. Let's say Trayvon did start the fight.... Who's to say it it wasn't in self defense to the actions that Zimmerman did, making Trayvon feel endangered and without any way to retreat.... Hense, self defenes in this can go both ways. It's amazing what can happen when you put your mind to it. You can see almost all options, and see how the actions of 1 lead to maybe both of them being wrong. But in the end, the actions of 1 are what lead to the death of the other. That is what they will get Zimmerman with.


Tried to get away from what, When he was shot, it looks like he was on top of Zimmerman, applying force to his head to bring it up and back down into the pavement. We can say that he was not trying to get away at that point. Also at no point was it stated that there was a confrontation and Trayvon tried to walk away.

If I am correct on that piece, again it becomes conjecture. I can see your point in all of these situations, however, we do not know of ANY of those were the situation. Until we get a better idea of what happened, everyone is guessing.



#39 brianshapiro

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:06

Don't need a permit to own a gun, only to publicly carry. Zimmerman illegally carried his gun. You guys are making this easy.


There are states where you need a gun license.

...

Now we know Trayvon not only liked Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, but also Reeses.

#40 soniqstylz

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:25

None of this matters.

Did he have a gun on him when Zimmerman was stalking him? No? Was he high? No? Then it should never enter into the equation, because Zimmerman didn't know any of it at the time.

#41 Javik

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:28

As far as I'm concerned if you start trouble you get whatever's coming to you. It's a shame it wasn't Zimmerman that was shot, one less dangerous gun nut on the streets would be better for everyone. If the case were reversed and it had been a black guy shooting a white guy the righties would be absolutely up in arms about. Freedom: As long as you're a white guy with a gun.

#42 MorganX

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:42

I beg to differ. Most Americans are nice, upstanding people.

As for this, it's about what I expected. The media had him painted as a saint.


So which part makes him not the saintly kid the media painted him as (not that I agree with that, your argument is bogus IMO). Smoking weed? Which 90% of middle and upperclass white Americans do? Are none of them saintly or good and innocent? Or holding a gun which half of all of America hate Obama because they think he will disarm them from having assault weapons at home and teaching toddlers to use them.? This includes mortars and rocket launchers.

The Catholic Church still protects and transfers pedophiles, so I take it no Catholic who still supports that church can ever be a saint or good person?

C'mon growled.

As far as I'm concerned if you start trouble you get whatever's coming to you. It's a shame it wasn't Zimmerman that was shot, one less dangerous gun nut on the streets would be better for everyone. If the case were reversed and it had been a black guy shooting a white guy the righties would be absolutely up in arms about. Freedom: As long as you're a white guy with a gun.


The Black guy would already be convicted and in prison. Let's be real here. They should charge this guy with manslaughter and call it a day.

Unless he is still value for political for jesse jackson, al sharpton, or obama; otherwise, right now he is just another thug who sadly got shot.


Just curious as to what makes him a thug? Does he have a criminal record? I don't know, haven't followed it that closely. But you called him a thug so I figure you know.

White boys take pictures with guns, smoking weed, act and talk black and thuggish and it's considered style, so I'm just making sure you're not confusing thuggery with acting like a teenage white boy.

#43 Javik

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:44

To hell with manslaughter I hope they do him for murder.

#44 rfirth

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:50

If the case were reversed and it had been a black guy shooting a white guy the righties would be absolutely up in arms about. Freedom: As long as you're a white guy with a gun.


If the case were reversed? When did George Zimmerman become white? He's half Peruvian. He's clearly hispanic. Is Obama now just another white president?

#45 MorganX

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 22:58

If the case were reversed? When did George Zimmerman become white? He's half Peruvian. He's clearly hispanic. Is Obama now just another white president?


Hispanics are Caucasian if you didn't know. America was basically built on anti-African American racism and it lives today. It can be overcome, but it is disingenuous to pretend it does not exist throughout America and particularly in Law Enforcement in large Metropolitan areas which is where the majority of African Americans in this country live.

If you believe the outcome wouldn't be dramatically different if the roles were reversed you're living in a fantasy land. Seeing you're from Louisiana, and how ridiculous law enforcement is there, I know you know better. Countless blacks were murdered during Katrina down there and the perps will never be brought to justice.

Don't get me wrong, criminals are criminals and all need to be punished. But the BS and people living in pathological lie fantasy land over issues like this drives me nuts. You really think you can rewrite history online? People are really stupid, no wonder we're in the shape we're in.



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