Windows 8 / 10: Shutdown Hibernation hybrid : Consumers confused.

[Draconian Guppy]

Oy, this thread escalated quickly

[eddman]

Of course. You hit the power button and the screen shuts of. But if you hold the button down and select power off, the phone shuts off and you hold the power button back down and it turns back on.

 

There are issues were the phone is completely locked up. Had it happen with Facebook Messenger on my Moto G 1st gen. Can't take the battery out. So I had to hold the power button down for 10 seconds and my phone turned off.  Then I turned it back on and it was fine.

 

As far as yanking the power cord. Sometimes the Computer is so locked up that's the only way. But in the process after yanking the cord and turning the computer back on. They see the computer restarting. I tell them not to get into the habit of doing that unless there is no other option.

Again, modern smartphones don't completely shut off. They act like windows 8/8.1. Again, certain issues on phones cannot be fixed, even if you power it off or on a million times. They are rare, but do happen.

 

Don't worry. They'll learn sooner or later. Just the fact that only 4 people call you a week and not every single customer you have, shows that not everyone is a simpleton, to put it lightly.

 

I have no sympathy for those who claim to be "photoshop" pros (not image editors) and yet don't know what a taskbar is and refer to it as the "bottom of the screen" or can't see the difference between the words "Restart" and "Shutdown" when you ask them to "Restart", even though they're clearly written in the menu.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Again, modern smartphones don't completely shut off. 

 

Can you link a source.

 

So you are saying when I power off my Moto G and turn it back on it's coming out of hibernation?

[eddman]

Can you link a source.

 

So you are saying when I power off my Moto G and turn it back on it's coming out of hibernation?

One example, htc fast boot. Just do a search.

 

There was an article where it mentioned most brands nowadays have some kind of fast boot. Can't find it now. It was a few years ago.

[+Warwagon MVC]

One example, htc fast boot. Just do a search.

 

Alright, i'll give you that one. I looked it up and you are correct.

 

HTC fast boot sounds exactly like a Windows 8 shutdown.. ok well not exactly, but same general idea. 

 

How often does someone shut their phone off? Only reason I shut mine off is to solve issues. In the case of Moto G there is no restart option. Just "Power off".. at least not in Kit Kat.

[eddman]

Alright, i'll give you that one.

 

You are correct, HTC fast boot sounds exactly like a Windows 8 shutdown. Also sounds just as retarded

 

how often does someone shut their phone off? Only reason I shut mine off is to solve issues. In the case of Moto G there is no restart option. Just "Power off".. at least not in Kit Kat.

That's why we have things like 8,10 or more seconds power button hold power offs (restart?), etc. for smartphones now.

 

As for power states, if we where to go REALLY technical, power-off and shutdown (pre-win 8) aren't the same either.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface#Power_states

 

G2 (S5): the so called shutdown, better term is soft-off

 

G3: mechanical off, when the power cable is removed.

 

P.S. not saying one has to go to G3 to fix issues, but perhaps for some of your callers, that'd be the better option.  It's foolproof.

 

EDIT: Just to add that it's very much possible that not all phones have a fast boot. Maybe Motos don't have it either. I reserve the right to be wrong about all this.

[seeprime]

Askvg.com has an excellent mod that adds a cascading power menu on the right click desktop menu. This lets you boot to start up options which makes getting to Safe Mode easier, and also includes a full shutdown option along with the hybrid shutdown. I load this on every Windows 8.x PC that we work on. It's very helpful.

http://www.askvg.com/add-cascading-menu-for-restart-shut-down-hibernate-and-other-power-shortcuts-in-desktop-context-menu-of-windows-7-and-8/

[+Warwagon MVC]

This lets you boot to start up options which makes getting to Safe Mode easier,

 

Which does absolutely no good if the computer does not boot / or doesn't boot completely to the desktop. Or you have some fake AV taking up the entire screen on a normal boot. (Which is the entire point of safe mode).

 

I know after a few failed boots, it should give you some boot options. But its the principle of the thing. It's like saying .."You can get still get to the iPhone DFU Mode" you just have to select it from settings."

 

That being said, separating the shut down and shut down hybrid does looks useful.

[imprb]

Let me preface this by saying I am not a techie. Just a grandma who has been using computers since before many of you were born.  My question to the community is simply "Would it have been so hard for Microsoft to change the " choices" to "Restart"  and "Hibernation", which would have made things abundantly more clear?

I sympathize with Computer Technicians who have to spend their time as tutors. My technician would not charge for this 5 minute "instruction" service but, in fact, he would "eat his time" just to keep his customer satisfied.(Throwing the phone across the room when he was finished.) Isn't it Microsoft's responsibility to inform their users (purchasers) of changes such as this? They are the ones making the product and profiting from it.

Go ahead now... start hacking away at me....

[HawkMan]

whether you hold down the power button and swipe to turn off or do the combo press to force off the device off, then turning it back on. Either way turning it off and back on solved the problem.

 

 

Except. No. there are a lot of bugs and issues in iOS that is NOT resolved by a simple power on/off but requires a forced soft reset. 

[HawkMan]

Let me preface this by saying I am not a techie. Just a grandma who has been using computers since before many of you were born.  My question to the community is simply "Would it have been so hard for Microsoft to change the " choices" to "Restart"  and "Hibernation", which would have made things abundantly more clear?

I sympathize with Computer Technicians who have to spend their time as tutors. My technician would not charge for this 5 minute "instruction" service but, in fact, he would "eat his time" just to keep his customer satisfied.(Throwing the phone across the room when he was finished.) Isn't it Microsoft's responsibility to inform their users (purchasers) of changes such as this? They are the ones making the product and profiting from it.

Go ahead now... start hacking away at me....

 

People don't know what hibernation is. they want their computers to be "shut down" i.e. not using power. that is exactly what shut down does in hybrid mode, if you need a restart, well then you use the restart function. there is no need to both functions to be in the menu, a full shutdown reset is redundant on todays computers. 

[imprb]

I believe that most people know the definition of "hibernate" and understand it to mean, in the loosest terms "go to sleep" or "not use energy".

The word "shutdown" by it's mere definition means "cease operation" . Take "shutdown a nuclear reactor" for example. I have never understood that to mean that it ceased using energy. It means that it is SHUTDOWN.. no consumption, no output. Cold.

[eddman]

Let me preface this by saying I am not a techie. Just a grandma who has been using computers since before many of you were born.  My question to the community is simply "Would it have been so hard for Microsoft to change the " choices" to "Restart"  and "Hibernation", which would have made things abundantly more clear?

I sympathize with Computer Technicians who have to spend their time as tutors. My technician would not charge for this 5 minute "instruction" service but, in fact, he would "eat his time" just to keep his customer satisfied.(Throwing the phone across the room when he was finished.) Isn't it Microsoft's responsibility to inform their users (purchasers) of changes such as this? They are the ones making the product and profiting from it.

Go ahead now... start hacking away at me....

 

I believe that most people know the definition of "hibernate" and understand it to mean, in the loosest terms "go to sleep" or "not use energy".

The word "shutdown" by it's mere definition means "cease operation" . Take "shutdown a nuclear reactor" for example. I have never understood that to mean that it ceased using energy. It means that it is SHUTDOWN.. no consumption, no output. Cold.

Computers are complex things and no matter how much companies try to simplify them, they'll still remain that way.

 

They are supposed to make them easy to use, yes, but it's also users' responsibility to learn about and understand the machines they're using. That's why stuff come with manuals and guides, and there's also windows' help. They should do at least that much.

 

There is no way to explain something with a single word.

 

Shutdown does "shut down" the computer, in 8/8.1 too. It ceases to operate, it doesn't consume energy, it goes cold. The only difference in windows 8/8.1 is that "Windows saves system info to a file upon shutdown so when you start your PC again, Windows uses that system info to resume your PC instead of restarting it."

 

That's "fast starup" in action.

 

It clearly says that shutdown is NOT the same as restarting. They did put FAQs out there; it's just that some people don't want to look for themselves and only want others to spoon-feed them.

 

All that is explained in these pages which are available to everyone to read:

 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/how-shut-down-turn-off-pc

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/power-plans-faq#1TC=windows-8

 

These are also available through Windows Help and Support.

 

Look for terms "shutdown", "hibernate" and "fast startup".

 

P.S. Also, "fast startup" can be disabled. I've disabled it too, since it doesn't play well with my old computer from 2007.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

Running Windows 7 here.  I set my computer to hibernate when I hit the power button and I use Hibernate exclusively (and was using it way before Windows 8 was even around).  There's no need to have constant "fresh boots" nowadays... it's pointless.  Resuming from hibernate is super quick and is truly "off" (taking no power, unlike Sleep mode) when it's in hibernate so even if you unplug it, it still boots up to where you were.  I tell my friends and family about hibernate as well because it's quicker and they like it.  It's pretty rare that I do a full restart anymore.  I also like how I can just hit any key on my keyboard and it will boot up again, don't even have to go for the power button.

[Draconian Guppy]

Running Windows 7 here.  I set my computer to hibernate when I hit the power button and I use Hibernate exclusively (and was using it way before Windows 8 was even around).  There's no need to have constant "fresh boots" nowadays... it's pointless.  Resuming from hibernate is super quick and is truly "off" (taking no power, unlike Sleep mode) when it's in hibernate so even if you unplug it, it still boots up to where you were.  I tell my friends and family about hibernate as well because it's quicker and they like it.  It's pretty rare that I do a full restart anymore.  I also like how I can just hit any key on my keyboard and it will boot up again, don't even have to go for the power button.

Hmmm well on windows 8.1, if I just close my screen, my asus laptop (2013) Will start to go crazy after a month or so... (USB won't detect External disk drives that require power supply and only this type, those powered by usb, it does detect )

[farmeunit]

We had to set computers to REALLY shutdown with group policy and turn off the hybrid sleep because it was causing issues with out SMARTBoard software. The service doesn't start back up correctly, but does fine after a restart.

[eddman]

We had to set computers to REALLY shutdown with group policy and turn off the hybrid sleep because it was causing issues with out SMARTBoard software. The service doesn't start back up correctly, but does fine after a restart.

Have you contacted their support? I suppose this software has background services, right? With hybrid shutdown (fast startup enabled), only the user sessions are closed. System session, which background services reside in, is hibernated.

 

It seems that this software needs to be updated, since it's apparently not compatible with fast startup. How about sleep or hibernate? Does it work ok with those?

 

P.S. hybrid sleep is something else. It's a form of sleep, not shutdown.

[farmeunit]

We've have some issues with sleep, but not as much as hybrid sleep.  Full shutdowns, we have no issues.  I have contacted their support, but they haven't been helpful.  It hasn't been quite as big an issue since I made the policy change, so I haven't bothered with it.  We're just upgrading to the very newest version this week, so we'll see.

[BajiRav]

I like the hybrid sleep mode I am not willing to oppose progress because warwagon has stupid customers. They can enjoy his jokes while he is fixing their "Windows Live Mail" and "AOL Software".

[+Warwagon MVC]

I like the hybrid sleep mode I am not willing to oppose progress because warwagon has stupid customers. They can enjoy his jokes while he is fixing their "Windows Live Mail" and "AOL Software".

 

Thanks Bajirav you're my new favorite person.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The issue I see is Windows 8. /thread

Thanks Bajirav you're my new favorite person.

Yes, 20/10 warwagons for sure.

[eddman]

We've have some issues with sleep, but not as much as hybrid sleep.  Full shutdowns, we have no issues.

Do you mean hybrid sleep or hybrid shutdown (fast startup)? These two are not the same.

I like the hybrid sleep mode

[HawkMan]

Hybrid sleep was introduced in Windows 7

 

and arguably hybrid shutdown was introduced with Vista. ever since vista the default setting for the physical power button and the start menu shutdown was hibernation. 

[eddman]

and arguably hybrid shutdown was introduced with Vista. ever since vista the default setting for the physical power button and the start menu shutdown was hibernation.

That's not hybrid shutdown. That's just setting the power button to do what you want. You could even set it to sleep, or to do nothing.

 

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/olivnie/archive/2012/12/14/windows-8-fast-boot.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/08/delivering-fast-boot-times-in-windows-8.aspx

 

Hybrid shutdown takes place when "fast startup" is enabled, which is only present in windows 8/8.1.

[HawkMan]

Yeah, but fast startup is essentially just starting from hibernation, yeah, sure there's some additional stuff to speed up the process, but...

 

point is, users are already either used to or not aware and don't care that their computers don't reset on "shutdown".