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Guardian - The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk

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I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.

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I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll tell you a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about Big Brother. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's all computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Part of staying safer from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. Get used to it because the world will never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone.

It doesn't contain any content of messages just phone numbers and locations of them so I'm not sure how you think it'll stop terrorism and they're daily reports.

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This has been going on since at least the early 70s, it's pretty common knowledge. Also most Long Distance provider NOCs have some form of NSA equipment housed there that monitor all calls for specific key words/patterns and queue them up for review if they meet specific criteria.

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Guess I just wouldn't be as fine living with such an Orwellian gov that some seem to be able to do. I value my privacy I guess.

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Guess I just wouldn't be as fine living with such an Orwellian gov that some seem to be able to do. I value my privacy I guess.

It's either that, or allow the bad guys to operate untouched by using digital infrastructure to their own advantage.

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I have no problem with pe

I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.

I have nothing to hide but I still don't want someone listening in to my phone call. It starts off as anti-terrorism and then it ends up with being a tool for anything else that could make them money.

I have more anger towards the fact the American People have no say so what-so-ever in this entire debacle along with 90% of other political changes. We're the puppets and the government is the puppet master. Everything is always done in closed door meetings instead of letting the people vote.

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It's either that, or allow the bad guys to operate untouched by using digital infrastructure to their own advantage.

Or they could just encrypt their communication and render the whole thing useless? I'd love to know if it's actually caught any terrorism acts but I guess that's hard to come by.

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I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.

the terrorists have won.... *sigh*

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I couldn't care less. I've got nothing to hide, and if prevents a terrorist attack, go for it. And I'll let you in on a little secret: This has been going on for many, many years.

But I'm sure some folks, namely the ACLU nutjobs, will freak out when they read this. Oh well, whatever. I guess I'm too busy living a great life to be paranoid about it. Like I said, if it helps protect us, I'm all for it. :punk:

Remember, the Tsarnaev brothers were in the US. If a keyword scan of phone records can nip the next attack in the bud, good. Anyway, it's not like some person is going to be listening to all of our phone conversations. It's computerized and probably only looking for certain words/phrases.

So yeah, I expect my government to do all it can to protect its citizenry. If we were attacked again and it came out later that there were phone calls detailing the attack, people would be bitching that the government didn't do enough.

Which would you prefer, OP? I'll take the safer, and yes, slightly more intrusive, approach. Frankly, part of staying alive from now on will mean making some sacrifices to our freedoms. It's called evolving to the current situation. Get used to it because the world will probably never go back to the way it used to be. The days of innocence are long gone. America has learned that the hard way.

not a matter of you having NOTHING to hide but, everything to do with violating your privacy. I get this sinking suspicion with the IRS debacle, NSA building a huge data center to store everything they collect on us http://www.wired.com..._nsadatacenter/

William binney used to work for the NSA, and created an algorithm used for spying on OTHER nations. they use his coding to create a system to spy on us all. hence the facility in the link above

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=590cy1biewc

we all deserve privacy and to live in a relatively private life

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I have nothing to worry about. I use AT&T and they can't even remember their own numbers, much less mine.

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I have nothing to worry about. I use AT&T and they can't even remember their own numbers, much less mine.

Really?

Room 641A, aka the SG3 (Secure Group 3) Secure Room, is in the SBC Communications building in San Francisco. It's the location of the NSA backbone intercept system for AT&T. An Electronic Frontier Foundation lawsuit, Hepting v AT&T, failed in Federal court.

On the international front, the US is a member of an organization known as AUSCANNZUKUS (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US, aka "Five Eyes"), which runs a combined signals intelligence (SIGINT) program known externally as ECHELON.

Five Eyes also shares information with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei and Laos), France's DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security), NATO members and other national SIGINT agencies.

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Really?

Room 641A, aka the SG3 (Secure Group 3) Secure Room, is in the SBC Communications building in San Francisco. It's the location of the NSA backbone intercept system for AT&T. An Electronic Frontier Foundation lawsuit, Hepting v AT&T, failed in Federal court.

On the international front, the US is a member of an organization known as AUSCANNZUKUS (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US, aka "Five Eyes"), which runs a combined signals intelligence (SIGINT) program known externally as ECHELON.

Five Eyes also shares information with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei and Laos), France's DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security), NATO members and other national SIGINT agencies.

and yet they still can't prevent two lunatics dropping bombs in the middle of the boston marathon. Problem is, you will never see a report about the effectivness of such programs

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and yet they still can't prevent two lunatics dropping bombs in the middle of the boston marathon. Problem is, you will never see a report about the effectivness of such programs

This will get down-voted to hell and back, but can you consider for one moment the possibility that the attacks were allowed to happen to further the agenda of more and increasingly pervasive surveillance against the population ? The reasons are obvious - tighter and more control of the population by those in power for their own ends.

(From Security agencies / Government)

"Look, the bombers were using the phone network to communicate, we must increase our monitoring in real time of the phones everywhere, just in case someone else is planning such an attack"

(Population)

"Yes please protect us, do whatever you want, we have nothing to hide, we're good citizens, please stop these evil terrorists etc....."

And so the story goes - more control for the powerful, plenty of derision by those that cant see such plans against those that can (nutjob, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wacko etc...) and so we take another step into fascism.

Same goes with clamping down the internet for the same reasons - all about ultimate control at the end of the day. Cant have the little people subverting their authority now can we ?

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and yet they still can't prevent two lunatics dropping bombs in the middle of the boston marathon. Problem is, you will never see a report about the effectivness of such programs

This will get down-voted to hell and back, but can you consider for one moment the possibility that the attacks were allowed to happen to further the agenda of more and increasingly pervasive surveillance against the population ? The reasons are obvious - tighter and more control of the population by those in power for their own ends.

(From Security agencies / Government)

"Look, the bombers were using the phone network to communicate, we must increase our monitoring in real time of the phones everywhere, just in case someone else is planning such an attack"

(Population)

"Yes please protect us, do whatever you want, we have nothing to hide, we're good citizens, please stop these evil terrorists etc....."

And so the story goes - more control for the powerful, plenty of derision by those that cant see such plans against those that can (nutjob, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wacko etc...) and so we take another step into fascism.

Same goes with clamping down the internet for the same reasons - all about ultimate control at the end of the day. Cant have the little people subverting their authority now can we ?

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This will get down-voted to hell and back, but can you consider for one moment the possibility that the attacks were allowed to happen to further the agenda of more and increasingly pervasive surveillance against the population ? The reasons are obvious - tighter and more control of the population by those in power for their own ends.

(From Security agencies / Government)

"Look, the bombers were using the phone network to communicate, we must increase our monitoring in real time of the phones everywhere, just in case someone else is planning such an attack"

(Population)

"Yes please protect us, do whatever you want, we have nothing to hide, we're good citizens, please stop these evil terrorists etc....."

And so the story goes - more control for the powerful, plenty of derision by those that cant see such plans against those that can (nutjob, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wacko etc...) and so we take another step into fascism.

Same goes with clamping down the internet for the same reasons - all about ultimate control at the end of the day. Cant have the little people subverting their authority now can we ?

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The White House stressed that orders such as the one disclosed by the Guardian would only cover data about the calls rather than their content. A senior administration official said: "Information of the sort described in the Guardian article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it allows counter-terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.

Holder begins speaking. "The Department has made tremendous progress in protecting the safety, and the sacred rights, of the American people," he says. The FY 2014 budget request "includes over $4 billion for vital national security programs

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Delete me. Double post. Sorry.

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DUH

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It's either that, or allow the bad guys to operate untouched by using digital infrastructure to their own advantage.

That sounds fine to me, And if it costs a few lives that's a small price to pay.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am4.html

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Another update and it just gets worse:

NSA taps in to internet giants' systems to mine user data, secret files reveal

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows them to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide Powerpoint presentation

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this is getting out of hand. time to make my own major ISP adn email system.

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I can't see Holder keeping his job for much longer. This may be the last straw.

Really?

Room 641A, aka the SG3 (Secure Group 3) Secure Room, is in the SBC Communications building in San Francisco. It's the location of the NSA backbone intercept system for AT&T. An Electronic Frontier Foundation lawsuit, Hepting v AT&T, failed in Federal court.

On the international front, the US is a member of an organization known as AUSCANNZUKUS (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US, aka "Five Eyes"), which runs a combined signals intelligence (SIGINT) program known externally as ECHELON.

Five Eyes also shares information with ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Brunei and Laos), France's DGSE (Directorate-General for External Security), NATO members and other national SIGINT agencies.

I always forget to add that :p and that /s so people won't believe I am serious.

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^ Holder ? The NSA will run right over him.

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