firey Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Personally I won't be switching from 7 to 8, or 8.1. While adding the start button back is nice.. it still launches the start screen. I dislike the entire screen, I have no use for live tiles, or a full screen showing me tiles for programs I can have icons for on the desktop. I use the start menu for a quick, unobtrusive launcher that I don't even have to pay attention to or break attention from something else to use. Until MS have a Metro Mode and a Desktop Mode (meaning 7 style desktop w/ Start MENU) I don't see any reason for me personally to change. And with the way Linux is going hardware, and game support wise once 7 becomes obsolete I can see myself making the move from Windows to a Linux based OS (assuming MS continues down the path of a one OS fits All ideology). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illage3 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hey as long as I can still use custom themes (via UX patching) then I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I honestly do not see the start button doing any good overall being that all it really is, is a button that brings up the same start screen rather than a start menu, Microsoft really missed this one, people did not care about the button so much as the menu. Nobody gave a **** about the Start Menu. No one. This isn't about the menu as much as it is about change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cork1958 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Not that I HATE Windows 8, but the stupidity MS exhibited there, definitely turned me off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotee Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 This isn't about the menu as much as it is about change. Are we back to that again? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanspringer Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Very nice ideas with the notification center thing you've got going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchie64 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Personally I won't be switching from 7 to 8, or 8.1. While adding the start button back is nice.. it still launches the start screen. I dislike the entire screen, I have no use for live tiles, or a full screen showing me tiles for programs I can have icons for on the desktop. I use the start menu for a quick, unobtrusive launcher that I don't even have to pay attention to or break attention from something else to use. Until MS have a Metro Mode and a Desktop Mode (meaning 7 style desktop w/ Start MENU) I don't see any reason for me personally to change. And with the way Linux is going hardware, and game support wise once 7 becomes obsolete I can see myself making the move from Windows to a Linux based OS (assuming MS continues down the path of a one OS fits All ideology). In 8.1 you can get the 'all apps' screen when using the start button. It has nice options to filter out your apps. I like this a ton better than the start menu in W7, which is a pain when you have installed a gazillion apps. Even with the search option. Most of the apps I run daily are on the taskbar anyway. Quickly switching to the startscreen isn't a big hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Are we back to that again? lol What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firey Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 In 8.1 you can get the 'all apps' screen when using the start button. It has nice options to filter out your apps. I like this a ton better than the start menu in W7, which is a pain when you have installed a gazillion apps. Even with the search option. Most of the apps I run daily are on the taskbar anyway. Quickly switching to the startscreen isn't a big hassle. Comes down to personal taste. I prefer a list over a screen. I use Detail views not Icon Views. I never used quick launch in 2000/XP/Vista infact I had them hidden. With 7 I only pin apps I use ALL the time (Libraries, Chrome, MSN, Visual Studio, WMP). Different people use their computers differently, and for me I don't like the way 8 was designed or the things that have been removed or altered that don't fit with the way I want to use my computer. 7 does everything 100% Perfect in my eyes, in order to have 8 do it perfectly I have no choice but to get a 3rd party start menu app, find a 3rd party Transparency enabler, use a 3rd party Metro Launcher (not that I would use any metro apps without being forced to). I don't want everything full screen, infact I only play games and movies in full screen. LaP 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchie64 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Yes, a lot of these come down to personal taste, but also some to applications used. 95% of my daily apps are hard to run when not in full screen mode. And most of them (3D, compositing, graphics) aren't really complaying to the default Windows GUI anyway. So, for me, the Modern UI apps are very nice to use. Also from a designers point of view. It's all layed out very beautifully, and consistant. For me W8 is a 50-50 situation. For work it's mostly desktop, with the Moden UI apps for a lot of 'consuming'. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted June 10, 2013 Global Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2013 It's still a list, it's just that the list is full screen. Having also used GNOME 3 on and off, they also have a full screen "menu" that comes up when you click in the top left corner. Honestly, it's kinda close to the same idea MS has with the start screen minus the tiles. While I get that having it take up your whole screen is a issue I think that if you use it as you used the menu, which more and more people did by just hitting winkey and typing a few letters then enter, the short time you see it take up the screen is so minor for most that it's not really a issue. With the other changes they've made in 8.1, boot to desktop, turning off hot corners, bypassing the tiles and going to the list, being able to arrange the list in different ways. These are all direct changes for the more traditional kb+mouse desktop users. THere's also a number of multi monitor improvements as well on the metro side, having multiple metro apps open on different screens, etc. One thing that would, I think, help the most though is if there was a option in a future version to have the All Apps list slide in from the left side taking up just 1/3rd of the screen or however much the charms menus do on the right side. That should really cover the last bit of complaints from pure desktop users IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick H. Supervisor Posted June 10, 2013 Supervisor Share Posted June 10, 2013 It still hides everything you were doing on the Desktop. The fact that there's a button and that the background uses your desktop wallpaper are timid steps in the right direction, but it's still a highly intrusive, confusing and inefficient design for desktop users.I would like it if the terms "hate", "fan" and such references to irrational bias and emotions would stay out of these threads and especially their titles. I couldn't agree more, both on the comment about the start screen and the overuse of "hate" and "fan." (Y) Nobody gave a **** about the Start Menu. No one. This isn't about the menu as much as it is about change. Oh good, I've been classed as "no one." Generalizing like this is where most of these arguments spring from. Can't people just say, "it's not for me" or "it is for me" without classing themselves as everyone and others as no one? You didn't care about the start menu. That is not to say that everyone else didn't care as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 The Start Screen taking over the entire screen is no different than having everything else on your screen (which many claim to do). It's just one more layer on top of many. And no one cared about the Start Menu in the fact that when a new version was revealed (Vista, and 7) no one gave a **** about the menu. No one screamed for it, no one bothered with it. No bloggers blogged about it, and no one even dared to mention it save for the many who complained over the fact "it looks like Vista." Now everyone claims it was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah, right. Sorry not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 The Start Screen taking over the entire screen is no different than having everything else on your screen (which many claim to do). It's just one more layer on top of many. And no one cared about the Start Menu in the fact that when a new version was revealed (Vista, and 7) no one gave a **** about the menu. No one screamed for it, no one bothered with it. No bloggers blogged about it, and no one even dared to mention it save for the many who complained over the fact "it looks like Vista." Now everyone claims it was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah, right. Sorry not buying it. Dot, To be fair, there were (at least a few) people who blogged about the new Start menu in Windows Vista. Peter Bright of Arstechnica was one of them. One slightly unusual place where search has been integrated is the Start Menu. The concept in the Vista Start Menu is that instead of hunting through potentially dozens of program groups to find the program you want to start or document you want to open, you simply type the name of the program or document to launch it. The search results appear inline within the Start Menu, allowing instant access to programs. It takes a bit of getting used to?we've had eleven years of hunting through the Start Menu to find programs?but it actually works pretty well, especially if you've got scores of Start Menu icons. Anyway... People would still complain about the Start screen even if it offered all of the functionality of the old Start menu; it's almost there anyway (while offering its own improvements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DonC Subscriber² Posted June 10, 2013 Subscriber² Share Posted June 10, 2013 It'll definitely ease some hate but not all. Didn't MS say something to the effect of "our research shows no one uses the Start menu"? If true, well, they need to fire their research team because a few of the changes being made in 8.1 are due to customer feedback that goes against what their so-called research team found. If I remember correctly, the claim was that fewer than 1% used the start menu for anything other than searching or choosing from the list as initially presented. My primary annoyance of the start screen is that on Windows 8.0 there are separate search categories and you have to navigate between them. That activity *is* in the > 1% group so they should've been more careful with that one. I can't even work out what problem they were trying to solve with search the way it is in 8.0. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickkins Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 The simple fact is that the return of the start button is little more than a poorly planned attempted sleight of hand that will fool no one. In fact, it insults our intelligence. 8.1 will see more negative reaction that 8 did, because this time, they knew better. The Start Screen taking over the entire screen is no different than having everything else on your screen (which many claim to do). It's just one more layer on top of many. And no one cared about the Start Menu in the fact that when a new version was revealed (Vista, and 7) no one gave a **** about the menu. No one screamed for it, no one bothered with it. No bloggers blogged about it, and no one even dared to mention it save for the many who complained over the fact "it looks like Vista." Now everyone claims it was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah, right. Sorry not buying it. Where do you get this crap from...??? Your made up nonsense is so freakin tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The simple fact is that the return of the start button is little more than a poorly planned attempted sleight of hand that will fool no one. In fact, it insults our intelligence. 8.1 will see more negative reaction that 8 did, because this time, they knew better. So, what are they supposed to do? Not change a damn thing, and wither away as trends change? Unify the rest of their systems and services, and leave Windows out to rot? Where do you get this crap from...??? Your made up nonsense is so freakin tedious. I'm not making anything up. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789A Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I wasn't a huge fan of the way the start screen worked in Windows 8 (I'm still running Windows 7 even though I bought 8), but 8.1 looks like they got it right. I'm planning on installing it. MorganX and Ian W 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkyDan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Start Screen > Start Menu. If you disagree you need to go to a doctor. Start Menu is an antiquated old cascading mess of a hover menu. I assumed the majority of users pinned apps to the task bar and avoided the Start Menu altogether. I've been using Windows 8 since the Dev Preview and had my initial annoyances calmed more and more as the consumer and release previews were released. I have well and truly moved on from the Start Menu. 8.1 even addresses the multi-monitor gripes people had that I conceded to. People holding onto legacy UI elements like the Start Menu make me mad, they are so stubborn and change-feared I fear they may have a mental illness and need a psychiatrist. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 People holding onto legacy UI elements like the Start Menu make me mad, they are so stubborn and change-feared I fear they may have a mental illness and need a psychiatrist. Modern UI is dumbed down for consumerism users who don't do a whole lot, or even office users who don't need much. There's nothing wrong with that. Cascading menus are not legacy, and won't go away, and one of the reasons real productivity apps, for now lets just say Office, aren't on the modern UI, is because you need these things. Even the ribbon uses menus, whether cascading or scroll. It depends on what you do. If you never do a type of work, you cannot put yourself in the place of those who do, and do miss what the Start Menu allowed them to do. In fact, many don't even know how to configure the Start Menu for productivity and that's fine. 8.1 does a better job of integrating the more simplistic (primarily for tablets) Modern UI, with the desktop and that's great. Instead of calling people stubborn or change-feared, one could easily called them, resistant to dumbing down computing for the dumbest denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkyDan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Modern UI is dumbed down for consumerism users who don't do a whole lot, or even office users who don't need much. There's nothing wrong with that. Cascading menus are not legacy, and won't go away, and one of the reasons real productivity apps, for now lets just say Office, aren't on the modern UI, is because you need these things. Even the ribbon uses menus, whether cascading or scroll. It depends on what you do. If you never do a type of work, you cannot put yourself in the place of those who do, and do miss what the Start Menu allowed them to do. In fact, many don't even know how to configure the Start Menu for productivity and that's fine. 8.1 does a better job of integrating the more simplistic (primarily for tablets) Modern UI, with the desktop and that's great. Instead of calling people stubborn or change-feared, one could easily called them, resistant to dumbing down computing for the dumbest denominator. OK you got me there. Resistance to what is perceived as dumbing down isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's why the Desktop is still there and support for Win7 productivity apps. I don't think the Start Screen is a dumbed down version of the start menu, moreso an alternate way to present the same information. I'm not arguing for say a dumbed down version of Photoshop for Professionals to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashel Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Why, does professional software not use 'legacy UI elements' that make you rage? Is the Desktop itself not one big 'legacy UI'? How can you cut out an essential piece of the Desktop paradigm, then pretend its the only baggage? Flyout menus? The apps you use every day still use this common bit of UI. Taskbar Screen ? Start Menu (aka All Apps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erpster3 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 a Start button may be there in Windows 8.1 but not a Start menu after clicking the Start button, hah! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted June 13, 2013 Member Share Posted June 13, 2013 I'm done with Windows 8 so I don't care what they put in there any more. BeerFan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinMetro Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Does anyone know what's the difference between the Start Button and the Start Menu? Microsoft clearly said that a Start Button is coming back, but for those users who still can't get out of 1995 still cling for a Start Menu. Thank Microsoft for dealing with your fears with Windows 8.1, at least you're getting a start menu and boot to desktop. After more than 15 years with a Start Menu, its time for a change. You can pin anything to the Start Screen like folders like Control Panel and Computer and Downloads, apps (Not just Metro apps, any app(and in Windows 8.1 desktop apps will have colors on their tiles) and more!! Want to shut down? Make that tile on your start screen (Hint:Google it.) And just start typing and results appear instantly. Oh please, tell me that is too jarring, Microsoft fixed your fears with Windows 8.1 with using a desktop background. Best part of going to Windows 8, you get to take advantage of all those improvements to the kernel and the Desktop. Yes, the desktop has new features like the all new Task Manager and the new Explorer ribbon. Apps load faster and memory management is better. More kernel improvements in Windows 8.1 is coming too. It has never been a great time to upgrade to Windows 8.1 when 8.1 comes out. Best part, it's free for Windows 8 users. Where did my start menu go, I'm so scared!! Help me!!! I just clicked on the start button and I lost everything on my screen, Help! Help! Get used to those cries for help because they'll be common in Windows 8 training. Don't like it, go back to Windows 7 or stay with 8 and use the Start8 or Classic Shell alternatives for users who can't get used to Windows 8. The start menu will never come back unless a miracle happens in Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts