70 posts in this topic

Before 1965 and after 1995 it does correlate, and in the middle was a period where "prison reform" was tried. Violent crime rose until the early 1990's when 2 things happened: increased minimum sentences and liberalized self defense laws.

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now compare stats with european states that focus on rehab and you'll see that those numbers do in fact show your system is flawed. 

 

Also what happens when all those violent prisoners that are locked up for long time are getting out. then you get the same reversal you had before. untill you again start building even more prison, untill half the population has prison as their adress. 

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Before 1965 and after 1995 it does correlate, and in the middle was a period where "prison reform" was tried. Violent crime rose until the early 1990's when 2 things happened: increased minimum sentences and liberalized self defense laws.

Correlation does not imply causation

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Here we go... "Europe is better than the US!  We do everything better!  Our way is the right way!"

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Here we go... "Europe is better than the US!  We do everything better!  Our way is the right way!"

 

When it comes to crimes, rehabilitation and "punishment" and impact on society, yes we do. 

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To hell with rehabilitation--they committed such an atrocity--they need to be put to death--period.  No need to waste taxpayers' money on them anymore than the needle and poison needed to put them to death.  We won't ever have to worry about them committing more crimes.

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Here we go... "Europe is better than the US!  We do everything better!  Our way is the right way!"

 

I don't think that's quite what was said... No need to be so defensive.

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Yes there is as that notion is the next one up to bat, as usual.

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To hell with rehabilitation--they committed such an atrocity--they need to be put to death--period.  No need to waste taxpayers' money on them anymore than the needle and poison needed to put them to death.  We won't ever have to worry about them committing more crimes.

Unless they reincarnate.

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Need to call up Marsellus Wallace and get him to arrange for these animals to be given the "Zed" treatment.

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The only suitable punishment for scum like this is simply "Do unto others"... Let them suffer through what they put the victim through and then give them death.

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I don't think that's quite what was said... No need to be so defensive.

 

It's a pattern, man.  Review the forums.

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I don't think that's quite what was said... No need to be so defensive.

 

Like I said - don't get so defensive over it.  From the rest of the world's standpoint, there's a pattern of "America does ______, we're right".

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What I've always wondered is how can some defense lawyers defend scum like this? I know, a job is a job but... c'mon.

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What I've always wondered is how can some defense lawyers defend scum like this? I know, a job is a job but... c'mon.

 

Pretty sue you asked this before, or someone did.  Here's the explanation:

 

1) They have to.  A lawyer has to do a certain percentage of pro-bono work, at least in the UK.

2) They don't do it because they like or care or respect the client.  They do it because they believe in and respect the legal system. The legal system of trial by jury and due process is VERY important.  They recognise this and while they may not care for the defendant in the case, they do care for upholding the system

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Like I said - don't get so defensive over it.  From the rest of the world's standpoint, there's a pattern of "America does ______, we're right".

 

Really?  On these forums?  Seems more like no one really cares that much what is going on in Europe, except Europeans.  In fact, most of the weird posts about Americans come from Americans, which triggers an onslaught of "Americans have no clue how to..." or "Americans are so far behind in..." from non-Americans.

 

That's fine, of course... it is an open forum for discussion.  I just noted that when something like that comes up generally the first people to condescend are... not from here.

 

The fact is, I DO believe our system requires an overhaul.  I've "blogged" about it (whoo hooooo!  I blog!) but my thoughts are a little extreme -or- perhaps too old-fashioned in concept to appeal to most and probably nigh on impossible to implement now.  But that isn't the point I am trying to make.  My point is that every time Americans start discussing a pretty much localized issue, non-Americans feel the need to step in and point out just how "flawed" our "system" is.

----------

 

And to be clear, I don't dislike (or think inferior) Europeans or Asians or Africans, etc.  I have friends in France and Germany (not Americans living there, actual "natives").  One attended our wedding (which was cool that he would fly from Germany to do so!)

 

People are pretty much the same all over the world, or so it seems to me based on my customer service experience for DEC, many years ago, and I have never met anyone I did not like.

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How can lawyers defend these people?I understand it's their work but aren't they humans?

 

From an article in the American Bar Association...

 

https://www.americanbar.org/newsletter/publications/gp_solo_magazine_home/gp_solo_magazine_index/repugnantclients.html

 

 

 

Representing Repugnant Clients

Every Lawyer?s Choice?

By Scott D. Laufenberg

Are a sense of justice and professional responsibility all that a lawyer considers in deciding whether to take on a case or to choose between Case A and Case B? In the glow of law school ethics or professionalism courses, this noble sense of fulfilling the right to representation appears admirable, even sometimes seductive. But it is often unrealistic.

This is not to say that seasoned attorneys are not idealistic. Many of us take cases when no one else will help or when the client cannot pay. But it is one thing to accept such a case by choice?and entirely another for a lawyer to be required to represent a specific client but have no say in the decision. Practicing law is challenging enough without having mandatory representation thrust upon us. Attorneys should be free to decide whether or not to represent a client or cause.

...

I don't think that's quite what was said... No need to be so defensive.

 

Well, maybe I misinterpreted what was said...

 

 

 

When it comes to crimes, rehabilitation and "punishment" and impact on society, yes we do. 

 

(that was in response to my "defensive" statement)

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If i had the resources I would put them in a cage of male gorillas who have just been injected with viagra. 

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^^ that could work - and since "alternative sentencing" is becoming all the rage :ninja:

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If i had the resources I would put them in a cage of male gorillas who have just been injected with viagra. 

 

 

You're making one assumption here that's very wrong though... 

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