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DRM is the killer feature

drm m$ 1996 xbox !!!!!!!!111 xbox one game sharing

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#46 0sit0

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:02

I would have been fine with all the DRM if the game prices were lower. I don't like "renting" games for retail price. Yes, renting is technically what you are doing because you don't own anything anymore. Call me old fashioned but that's my opinion.




#47 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:11

Lot of boohoo about DRM.

That's the problem with the world today everyone wants everything free with no restrictions. Truth of the matter is, in order to progress new forms of management have to come in to practice so quit whining because it's happening and there's nothing you can do about it and for the sake of the industry there's nothing you should do about it.

 

I would have been fine with all the DRM if the game prices were lower. I don't like "renting" games for retail price. Yes, renting is technically what you are doing because you don't own anything anymore. Call me old fashioned but that's my opinion.

 

I know where you're coming from but nothing has changed there. You're still purchasing a right to use licence.



#48 BajiRav

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:18

It's a killer feature alright, if killing trust, faith, good will, loyalty, mind share and sales is a "feature".

 

Well played.

As for people that think this sharing with 10 other people is such a great idea, I think you are deluded.

 

Who are these 10 great people that you are going to want to share with?

 

Are they going to have the games you want, when you want them?

 

Or are you the one with all the games?

 

It's just as it is now, apart from being more convenient for broke cousin johnny to leech from your collection. Only now, he can only borrow it once, so that is a bonus, right? :rolleyes:

The same great 10 people that ant-DRM folks want to lend their games or borrow from them. :p



#49 AR556

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:26

Of course all the positive aspects are good till they decide to change the policy and disallow game sharing. This is something you'll have to accept should you buy into this model. Once you turn over control, the noose only gets tighter over time. How long do you think it will be till publishers start seeing game sharing the same as they view renting and second hand selling?

 

Enjoy the butt-rape :)



#50 jjkusaf

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:29

Lot of boohoo about DRM.

That's the problem with the world today everyone wants everything free with no restrictions. Truth of the matter is, in order to progress new forms of management have to come in to practice so quit whining because it's happening and there's nothing you can do about it and for the sake of the industry there's nothing you should do about it.

 

 

I know where you're coming from but nothing has changed there. You're still purchasing a right to use licence.

$60 bucks for a game is hardly free.  Yea, if I buy something I want to use/sell it the way I want and without it having to "phone home".  DRM does nothing to combat piracy and only places restrictions on those people who legally obtain the product.



#51 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:32

$60 bucks for a game is hardly free.  Yea, if I buy something I want to use/sell it the way I want and without it having to "phone home".  DRM does nothing to combat piracy and only places restrictions on those people who legally obtain the product.

 

I said people want everything for free, i did not say "Computer games are free".

In future, stop, count to ten, think about your reply then close the browser window instead.



#52 Nagisan

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:33

Legal stuff aside, you can't.  I buy a disc copy of a game on the PC, I have a cd key to use.  Once I use it then it's used, as far as I know I can't reuse it.   Other games also tie into other services, you can buy a disc copy and tie it to your steam account and then, what?   Sure you can give the disc away but honestly, for the longest time now PC games have been install once and done.    There's no used PC games market for this reason.

I never claimed there was a market for used PC games, I simply said it can be done. As an example, I could let my friends use my Guildwars 2 account, or even sell it to them if I wanted....and unless ArenaNet has a way of tracking everything you do, they would never know I sold it to him.

 

You CAN lend out and sell used PC games, it's just very uncommon because it's often tied to an account that's connected to other things. I personally have let my best friend onto my game accounts before, because I know him well enough to know he wouldn't intentionally do anything bad with my account, and he has done the same with me. There is no market for this, but it is entirely possible to lend out/sell used PC games even if it's tied to an account used for other things. And it is not illegal at all, only sometimes against the EULA (it is typically only against the EULA because companies don't want to deal with the backlash of what could happen if you lend your account out and the person you lent it to steals it).



#53 jjkusaf

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:43

I said people want everything for free, i did not say "Computer games are free".

In future, stop, count to ten, think about your reply then close the browser window instead.

 

Once again...people do not want restrictions on what they PAY for.  Your "people want everything for free" comment isn't relevant.



#54 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:48

Once again...people do not want restrictions on what they PAY for.  Your "people want everything for free" comment isn't relevant.

 

My comment was regarding the internet culture of download for free, open source software and piracy. The way that this has embedded itself in our culture meaning everyone wants something for free or unrestricted these days.

So yes my comment was very relevant but of course don't let that get in the way of your inane replies, i could do with a good giggle.

 

The fact is, the restrictions in most DRM is the same as has always existed in licence agreements right back to vinyl records but everyone still kicks up a stink on some crazy crusade on something they know nothing about.



#55 George P

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:53

I never claimed there was a market for used PC games, I simply said it can be done. As an example, I could let my friends use my Guildwars 2 account, or even sell it to them if I wanted....and unless ArenaNet has a way of tracking everything you do, they would never know I sold it to him.

 

You CAN lend out and sell used PC games, it's just very uncommon because it's often tied to an account that's connected to other things. I personally have let my best friend onto my game accounts before, because I know him well enough to know he wouldn't intentionally do anything bad with my account, and he has done the same with me. There is no market for this, but it is entirely possible to lend out/sell used PC games even if it's tied to an account used for other things. And it is not illegal at all, only sometimes against the EULA (it is typically only against the EULA because companies don't want to deal with the backlash of what could happen if you lend your account out and the person you lent it to steals it).

 

You're kinda going off into something else, that's giving your account away.  That's fine, because that account is tied to that game itself.  What if your account is tied to all your games?  Like Steam, Origin, PSN, XBL etc?   You going to give it away to?  In the end while what you say is possible it's not the same thing as getting a game disc, playing it, then giving it away without any account worries and cd key issues.  That's something consoles have had going for them till now but the PC stopped being able to do long ago.

 

I remember when games just had a cd key, then came the cd key and needing to have the "play" disc in the drive.  Now we have cd keys, account tie-ins, online requirements and so on.  If anything the PC is the most DRM infested gaming platform out there. 



#56 efjay

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 16:58

Thing is, same game on the PS4 wont be restricted in any way and can be played totally offline if  you want to. If someone's friends cant afford to buy the game themselves to play with you they probably shouldnt have bought the console in the first place. I think its funny the way the X1 is being defended so much, anyone who's not a MS fanboy will just get the alternative that doesnt make you jump through hoops to play your games. Anyway you look at it, the PS4 is the better buy.

 

And for some perpective I am currently fully in the MS ecosystem with a 360, Lumia 920, various Windows 8 devices and dont use a single apple or google service. But even I can see the PS4 is the most sensible choice if you want to just sit down and play a game without worrying about doing anything other than inserting a disc in your console.

 

And here's more food for thought, MS's current mobile platform, WP8 has no way to access your purchased content from Xbox video. When the OS was first being pitched MS made a big thing about "3 screens and the cloud" but now make no mention of Windows Phone in those scenarios. This is how MS works, ignoring certain sections of its userbase when it suits them and denying them access to their content from certain devices. So if you think you will be able to access your digital games forever, be prepared for the day when MS says that is no longer possible.



#57 Nagisan

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:07

You're kinda going off into something else, that's giving your account away.  That's fine, because that account is tied to that game itself.  What if your account is tied to all your games?  Like Steam, Origin, PSN, XBL etc?   You going to give it away to?  In the end while what you say is possible it's not the same thing as getting a game disc, playing it, then giving it away without any account worries and cd key issues.  That's something consoles have had going for them till now but the PC stopped being able to do long ago.

 

I remember when games just had a cd key, then came the cd key and needing to have the "play" disc in the drive.  Now we have cd keys, account tie-ins, online requirements and so on.  If anything the PC is the most DRM infested gaming platform out there. 

Pretty much all of my PC game purchases over the last 5 years have been Digital so I admit I have been somewhat ignoring the physical disc side of things. I think the problem is physical discs for PC games are simply on their way out because PCs typically have an internet connection.

 

Anymore when you buy a disc it installs the game service (origin/steam/etc) and the base game, then the game service takes care of attaching it to your account (usually via cd-key) and updating the game.

 

As I said you can give away/sell the account if you wish to lend/sell the game in question, the problem with PC games (and why there is no used game market on the PC) is the cd-keys are one-time use anymore. Blizzard with Diablo II was the last physical game I recall that you were able to lend out or sell your CD-key....if you've never played it, basically the way it worked was you had a CD-key to install the game, and that copy of the game could be played offline as much as you wanted (you could install it on 100 computers and play them all offline or lan). You could then create as many accounts for the online service (Battle.net) as you wanted. But you could only use 1 cd-key at a time on battle.net....if one of those 100 installs was on battle.net, the other 99 could not connect simultaneously....but as soon as it logged off, one of the others could connect.

 

Basically the way it worked was the cd-key had to be unique on the battle.net service. It wasn't tied to an account but was only allowed to be logged in from a single installation at a time.

 

Unfortunately, PC games have moved beyond that, I personally don't like it but it doesn't bother me as much because my PC has a connection more often than my game consoles. The thing that scares me about the DRM the Xbox One has, is it is a single point of failure (admittedly so is Origin, Steam, etc)...if the service goes down you may not be able to access ANY of your games. Luckily for PC many games use different services so it is not a single point for ALL of your games.

 

And while I do agree that the PC is the most DRM-infested gaming platform, it is also the most lenient on its DRM policies depending on the service. I know Origin has offline mode but I do not know how it works and I know it won't work with SimCity and possibly so of EAs other games. Steam on the other hand also has offline mode, which allows you to stay offline potentially for months playing single-player games. Xbox One is nowhere close to that level of freedom with its current DRM policies.



#58 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:17

...anyone who's not a MS fanboy will just get the alternative that doesnt make you jump through hoops to play your games. Anyway you look at it, the PS4 is the better buy.

 

Which is where you are very wrong. I'm by no  means an XBox fan boy, i've made my feelings on this clear in many threads so wont drag it all up again. However your assumption that only MS fanboys will buy the XBox One is just flawed and wrong.



#59 jjkusaf

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:19

My comment was regarding the internet culture of download for free, open source software and piracy. The way that this has embedded itself in our culture meaning everyone wants something for free or unrestricted these days.

So yes my comment was very relevant but of course don't let that get in the way of your inane replies, i could do with a good giggle.

 

The fact is, the restrictions in most DRM is the same as has always existed in licence agreements right back to vinyl records but everyone still kicks up a stink on some crazy crusade on something they know nothing about.

Only point I'm trying to make is that DRM is not where it should be and only causes problems for legitimate users while trying to distinguish them from illegitimate users.  DRM is over complicated, doesn't protect the industry and only hurts/impairs legitimate users.



#60 vetDirtyLarry

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:29

So Person 1 in California has 9 other "family" members designated, and they are all across the US of A in various locations.

People really think those 9 other people are going to be able to play the 1 license for the digital download of the game that Person 1 purchased?

People really and sincerely think that is going to be the case??

 

That just goes against common business sense, never-mind so much of the other features they are implementing are in the exact opposite vein.

 

So I cannot help but think a whole, whole lot of people are going to be terribly disappointed once they find out just exactly how this whole "Family" option does work.

If people seriously think they can have 9 other people under their "family" list, and those 9 people can all play the same 1 game whether at the same time or not at the same time at all and all one at a time, I really believe they are going to be terribly, terribly let down. 

 

Perhaps I will be proven wrong, and Microsoft is now the most giving video game console developer ever known to man. However I cannot feel due to the nature of the other policies they are introducing with the One, that there is no way in hell this is how this feature is going to work. None.

 

Now 9 other "family" members as sub accounts under one primary account? Sure, I can see that. But there is no way that Primary account is going to be able to be logged into more than one console at a time. So that will render all these dreams that people have of mass game sharing almost useless.