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http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-live-tv-microsoft-history-what-to-expect/

 

Huge article, read at source

 

 

What's in a name? A whole lot, if you're asking yours truly. "All Your Entertainment. Input One." Such intriguing statements were declared in a document that leaked from Redmond last summer. The slogan "All in one, input one" was on the Microsoft banners decorating the LA Convention Center for E3 this year. But this probably left many wondering: what is "input one," exactly? It didn't go unnoticed by those who follow the TV industry. Input one is commonly used in the biz to refer to the TV input most Americans use to access the majority of their content. This is the input that's displayed when the TV is turned on, and it's the input that most connect their set-top box from their cable or satellite provider to. Naturally, it's a highly coveted position in the content industry and one that is well fortified by the incumbents.

Microsoft has had its sights on input one for a long time, and this particular go-round isn't all that unfamiliar. The Xbox One intends to share input one in what I'd call a man-in-the-middle attack. How well it works won't be revealed until later this year, but clicking through will reveal how I think it'll play out, why this attempt is a direct result of industry constraints and finally, how it matches up with the competition.

 

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I'm really excited for this feature.

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So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

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The key here is that MS will probably try and make deals with the big cable providers to make the Xbox One either the primary set-top box option or as a secondary one for a reduced price, think $299 + whatever you're paying to your cable provider.   The only thing they'd have to do is install a smaller box that takes the actual cable wire in, does it's decoding and so on, and then passes the signal out via hdmi to the Xbox One.   Better option than having two set-top boxes under the TV when you get it as a deal from the provider themselves.  

 

If something like this comes to pass and MS announces deals with Comcast and other big providers then the Xbox One sales have the possibility of skyrocketing.   People who would normally never get a Xbox because they're not hardcore gamers would possibly buy one as a bonus/more advanced all around set-top box option for their cable though.    It does open it up to a whole different group than before.

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So the entire article (apart from the many paragraphs not related to the Xbone) is basically conjecture about how it might work?

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Posted

It works via HDMI-CEC which is pass-through, go research the HDMI-CEC spec

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The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...
 
Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...


Indeed, we have heard all this talk about how great it is yet i don't really see this working in the UK. Maybe we will see a USB DVB-T2 tuner or something? I believe the PS3 has an actual TV tuner add-on for the UK so its not impossible.

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So, of course, I'm not surprised that Microsoft is looking forward and turning the corner on the DVR. What I mean is that the Xbox One is not a DVR, and I don't expect it to integrate tightly with third-party DVRs. Sure, it'll control any provider's set-top box, but this is about live TV.

This might sound ill advised, but according to Nielsen, the lion's share of TV is still viewed live, with DVR usage paling in comparison. So the idea isn't to replace your provider's DVR or even to do much more than to use it as a source for live TV. There has been no indication from Microsoft that the Xbox One will be able tosearch the recordings on your DVR or even schedule them. You'll still be able to use the DVR features, but my bet is that you'll have to resort to using its remote to watch recordings, rather than using the Xbox One to control it.

 

Very disappointing, if true. I wasn't going to be a launch buyer of the Xbox One, but if the right games turned up I would have been interested for the games and a more unified TV experience. Lack of DVR support would make that entirely useless to me as I watch nearly everything via the DVR. Also makes a mockery of the "all-in-one" idea. Really hope it isn't true.

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So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this about how it's going to work for those people who doesn't have HDMI out/cable box. those people will just be stuck with using the console the traditional way (just like they would any other console). are far as it seems and I've read TV is not the only thing that the xbox one can take through the hdmi in, it can take xbox 360, PC or hdmi output from other devices.

anyways, there are many DTV tuners with HDMI output so to me you're just trying to find a problem where there really isn't one.

 

also it's not Microsoft's fault those people don't have cable/satellite box, but other people shouldn't suffer because some people can't use a certain feature. but to me its better that the feature be there until those people can use it rather than not have the feature at all.

or is it that you wanted Microsoft to have also included a DTV tuner inside the xbox one????

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The key here is that MS will probably try and make deals with the big cable providers to make the Xbox One either the primary set-top box option or as a secondary one for a reduced price, think $299 + whatever you're paying to your cable provider.   The only thing they'd have to do is install a smaller box that takes the actual cable wire in, does it's decoding and so on, and then passes the signal out via hdmi to the Xbox One.   Better option than having two set-top boxes under the TV when you get it as a deal from the provider themselves.  

 

If something like this comes to pass and MS announces deals with Comcast and other big providers then the Xbox One sales have the possibility of skyrocketing.   People who would normally never get a Xbox because they're not hardcore gamers would possibly buy one as a bonus/more advanced all around set-top box option for their cable though.    It does open it up to a whole different group than before.

 

It's not possible to do this world wide.

 

There's too much things to support.

 

Here there's absolutely no way Vid

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I'm not sure where you're going with this about how it's going to work for those people who doesn't have HDMI out/cable box. those people will just be stuck with using the console the traditional way (just like they would any other console). are far as it seems and I've read TV is not the only thing that the xbox one can take through the hdmi in, it can take xbox 360, PC or hdmi output from other devices.

anyways, there are many DTV tuners with HDMI output so to me you're just trying to find a problem where there really isn't one.

 

also it's not Microsoft's fault those people don't have cable/satellite box, but other people shouldn't suffer because some people can't use a certain feature. but to me its better that the feature be there until those people can use it rather than not have the feature at all.

or is it that you wanted Microsoft to have also included a DTV tuner inside the xbox one????

 

So it's NOT a problem, in your opinion, that people outside of the US would most likely have to buy tuner just so they can use all of the Xbone's features? Are you serious?

 

Also, didn't Microsoft market and name it after the fact that the Xbox One as an all-in-one entertainment box? Shouldn't that mean it should come with a tuner? To me, that's equivalent to selling someone an "HTPC" computer without a tuner.

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Indeed, we have heard all this talk about how great it is yet i don't really see this working in the UK. Maybe we will see a USB DVB-T2 tuner or something? I believe the PS3 has an actual TV tuner add-on for the UK so its not impossible.

Yea there is/was. PlayTV. It turned the PS3 into a TV receiver and DVR, and even supported Freeview HD. I was really interested in one when I got my PS3, but then I learned that it could only record one channel. Just as well I skipped it as when they turned analog TV off for our transmitter they managed to ruin our digital signal somehow. :blink:

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Reading the comments on engadget i totally agree with this one.

 

 


One thing to keep in mind is that interfaces of directv boxes and Comcast boxes are getting nicer and nicer as time goes on. by the time the XBO is 2 years into it's life, you'll have the same experience from your native cable/dish receiver. i think they are spending way too much time developing something that's not really going to be used much (not to mention dedicating a ton of system resources to it). i would rather just have my receiver manage all my inputs into one output to my TV. it's not that big of a deal to pick up the remote and change inputs.

another thing to think about is if you run surround sound-- you'll have to connect your cable box to your XBO and then connect your XBO to a receiver and then connect your receiver to your TV. i'm sorry, but i don't want my Xbox powered on when all i want to do is watch TV, unless they have some sort of hardware pass-through that does not require the XBO to be powered on

 

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Uh huh. "Hey guys, pass everything you watch through our box. We're not using it for advertising purposes at all, seriously, it's for your entertainment!"

 

Not that cable boxes are any better, per se, but this has always seemed like a data-grab by MS to me.

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So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

So they shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work in the UK? This is like they shouldn't offer downloadable games because someone with poor internet connection might not be able to download them.

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So, of course, I'm not surprised that Microsoft is looking forward and turning the corner on the DVR. What I mean is that the Xbox One is not a DVR, and I don't expect it to integrate tightly with third-party DVRs. Sure, it'll control any provider's set-top box, but this is about live TV.

This might sound ill advised, but according to Nielsen, the lion's share of TV is still viewed live, with DVR usage paling in comparison. So the idea isn't to replace your provider's DVR or even to do much more than to use it as a source for live TV. There has been no indication from Microsoft that the Xbox One will be able tosearch the recordings on your DVR or even schedule them. You'll still be able to use the DVR features, but my bet is that you'll have to resort to using its remote to watch recordings, rather than using the Xbox One to control it.

 

Very disappointing, if true. I wasn't going to be a launch buyer of the Xbox One, but if the right games turned up I would have been interested for the games and a more unified TV experience. Lack of DVR support would make that entirely useless to me as I watch nearly everything via the DVR. Also makes a mockery of the "all-in-one" idea. Really hope it isn't true.

 

many of the cable satellite companies have apps that give their customers access/dvr management of their DVR list, I'm sure those apps will show up on the xbox one and searchable through bing on the device. this should give the allusion that the xO has direct access to the dvr list.

 

again there are many DTV tuners that has hdmi out so those customers who want the tv functionally can buy one of those also along with the console if they don't have one already. so with this there's no real issue.

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So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

Most of the major cable companies require STBs (Comcast, Time Warner, Cablevision, Verizon Fios, Direct TV, Dish etc) and as long as you have an HDTV you most likely have a STB with the hdmi output.  Obviously those who do not have cable will not be able to use these features.  I still think its good for companies to give a little push in order to move forward with things.  Think about the first PC maker to stop putting the ps/2 ports for keyboards and mice, I cant wait for the day that TVs and receivers dont have 3 or 4 analog inputs.  I'm sure I will rarely use the TV features on my xbox but I like the idea of the possibilities.  Luckily Fios already works with the 360 so I should be good to go for the One.

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Personnally and this is my opinion only i don't see any future in this outside USA. You'll always need a set top box if you live outside USA. There's too many proprietary things like Vid

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So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

Newsflash: They don't care about anything outside of the US.

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Newsflash: They don't care about anything outside of the US.

And people in the US don't care about anything outside the US either, so it's win/win for them.

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Depending on the deals with the providers that they do the advertising could be shared with most of the split going to them and not MS.

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So it's NOT a problem, in your opinion, that people outside of the US would most likely have to buy tuner just so they can use all of the Xbone's features? Are you serious?

 

Also, didn't Microsoft market and name it after the fact that the Xbox One as an all-in-one entertainment box? Shouldn't that mean it should come with a tuner? To me, that's equivalent to selling someone an "HTPC" computer without a tuner.

 

well it's interesting because the xbox One is the only console that has this feature.

and No it doesn't mean the Xbox One should come with a tuner. you can buy a tuner box if you don't have a cable/satellite company or you can just use the console the traditional way just like you would any other console or you can make other uses of the hdmi input  (it doesn't have to be a tv that goes in there)

 

Uh huh. "Hey guys, pass everything you watch through our box. We're not using it for advertising purposes at all, seriously, it's for your entertainment!"

 

Not that cable boxes are any better, per se, but this has always seemed like a data-grab by MS to me.

 

I don't get your point at all. I really don't because if you're trying to say dont' use it because Microsoft is going to use your data for advertising purposes then I'm sure you don't use google search engine (because google's revenue stream that they make billions of dollars from is from advertisements made possible through every search you do). as a matter of fact i'm sure you don't use a single search engine then, right? because if you do then you'd just be like another hypocrite.

 

So they shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work in the UK? This is like they shouldn't offer downloadable games because someone with poor internet connection might not be able to download them.

 

same thing I'm saying. it's crazy how people keep trying to find fault after another even when there's really none. they just keep moving the goal post.

anyways, I'm looking forward to the TV feature and will be downloading my games digitally, unless I'm buying really old cheap used games.

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Personnally and this is my opinion only i don't see any future in this outside USA. You'll always need a set top box if you live outside USA. There's too many proprietary things like Vid

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I'm not sure where you're going with this about how it's going to work for those people who doesn't have HDMI out/cable box. those people will just be stuck with using the console the traditional way (just like they would any other console). are far as it seems and I've read TV is not the only thing that the xbox one can take through the hdmi in, it can take xbox 360, PC or hdmi output from other devices.

anyways, there are many DTV tuners with HDMI output so to me you're just trying to find a problem where there really isn't one.

 

also it's not Microsoft's fault those people don't have cable/satellite box, but other people shouldn't suffer because some people can't use a certain feature. but to me its better that the feature be there until those people can use it rather than not have the feature at all.

or is it that you wanted Microsoft to have also included a DTV tuner inside the xbox one????

 

I'm not trying to make a problem where there isn't one, I'm trying to work out how MS are going to make the TV features work. MS are marketing it as a great TV experience, but from what I know of different TV systems around the world (not a huge amount, I admit), it's only going to be that for quite a small percentage of people worldwide, given what info (none) we currently have.

 

Take the UK as an example. There are 5 main ways of getting your TV.

 

1. OTA into a set top "Freeview" digital decoder for older TV.s

2. OTA into a more modern TV with a built in Freeview decoder

3. Satellite via "Freesat" into a set top box

4. Satellite via SkyTV into a set top box

5. Cable TV from Virgin Media, into a set top box.

 

#1, which is the largest group, is served by literally HUNDREDS of different makes of set top box, and quite a lot of these are "el cheapo" ones with no HDMI out as they're designed for old TV's. Most of these just have an RF out, or maybe a SCART out.  These just aren't going to work with XB1.

 

#2, the second largest group.  I don't know of any TV models that actually have HDMI out, though there might be a few.  No idea how these will work with XB1.

 

Numbers #3 to #5 will mostly have HDMI out so should be OK, BUT, only newer STB's are sure to have it.  I know plenty of folks with old boxes that work perfectly well, that do not have HDMI out.

 

So, with just the UK alone, you have quite a lot of options.  Also, all that hardware have their own ways of talking to the box with IR codes, so this isn't exactly a minor issue.  Multiply that by the number of countries they're launching in and, well... I'm glad I'm not on that project!

 

As for your comment about MS's fault.  Not once did I say it WAS their fault!  If they want to launch with just support for one way to get TV, that's entirely their choice.  Doing so however, WILL affect sales.  Personally, I'd only be interested in buying one if ALL of its features work without me having to buy extra gear.  if it doesn't, then I doubt I'll bother.  FWIW, I'm in group 5 so might be fine, but I'm thinking about more than myself.


So they shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work in the UK? This is like they shouldn't offer downloadable games because someone with poor internet connection might not be able to download them.

 

Where did I say that?  Please don't put words in to my mouth.

 

Microsoft are releasing this console in quite a lot of countries and are touting this feature big time; therefore this feature needs to work in all those countries.  If it's US only, then that's going to hurt their sales figures rather a lot.

 

Stop being so US-centric.  The world is larger than your little corner of it.

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So it's NOT a problem, in your opinion, that people outside of the US would most likely have to buy tuner just so they can use all of the Xbone's features? Are you serious?

 

Also, didn't Microsoft market and name it after the fact that the Xbox One as an all-in-one entertainment box? Shouldn't that mean it should come with a tuner? To me, that's equivalent to selling someone an "HTPC" computer without a tuner.

 

YES I am serious.

If I made a car and marketed it as an off road vehicle but you can't drive over boulders unless you buy a certain type of suspension and tire combo.....are you saying that because I market my car as an off road vehicle I should also supply everyone of those cars I sell with the suspensions and tire combo so some people can drive over boulders off road?

 

it's the same thing, just because Microsoft is marketing their console as an all in one entertainment system doesn't mean they have to cater to every form of input under the sun so everyone can enjoy every feature, there will always be those who will need to buy extra parts to enjoy it.

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