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The Xbox One and live TV -- here's what to expect

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#16 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:36

So, of course, I'm not surprised that Microsoft is looking forward and turning the corner on the DVR. What I mean is that the Xbox One is not a DVR, and I don't expect it to integrate tightly with third-party DVRs. Sure, it'll control any provider's set-top box, but this is about live TV.

This might sound ill advised, but according to Nielsen, the lion's share of TV is still viewed live, with DVR usage paling in comparison. So the idea isn't to replace your provider's DVR or even to do much more than to use it as a source for live TV. There has been no indication from Microsoft that the Xbox One will be able tosearch the recordings on your DVR or even schedule them. You'll still be able to use the DVR features, but my bet is that you'll have to resort to using its remote to watch recordings, rather than using the Xbox One to control it.

 

Very disappointing, if true. I wasn't going to be a launch buyer of the Xbox One, but if the right games turned up I would have been interested for the games and a more unified TV experience. Lack of DVR support would make that entirely useless to me as I watch nearly everything via the DVR. Also makes a mockery of the "all-in-one" idea. Really hope it isn't true.

 

many of the cable satellite companies have apps that give their customers access/dvr management of their DVR list, I'm sure those apps will show up on the xbox one and searchable through bing on the device. this should give the allusion that the xO has direct access to the dvr list.

 

again there are many DTV tuners that has hdmi out so those customers who want the tv functionally can buy one of those also along with the console if they don't have one already. so with this there's no real issue.




#17 jerzdawg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:43

So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

Most of the major cable companies require STBs (Comcast, Time Warner, Cablevision, Verizon Fios, Direct TV, Dish etc) and as long as you have an HDTV you most likely have a STB with the hdmi output.  Obviously those who do not have cable will not be able to use these features.  I still think its good for companies to give a little push in order to move forward with things.  Think about the first PC maker to stop putting the ps/2 ports for keyboards and mice, I cant wait for the day that TVs and receivers dont have 3 or 4 analog inputs.  I'm sure I will rarely use the TV features on my xbox but I like the idea of the possibilities.  Luckily Fios already works with the 360 so I should be good to go for the One.



#18 LaP

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:45

Personnally and this is my opinion only i don't see any future in this outside USA. You'll always need a set top box if you live outside USA. There's too many proprietary things like Vidéotron's Cana Indigo and Vidéotron's Illico on demand for MS to support them all. And set top box UI and features keep improving. For the things not supported by your set top box there will be Smart TV which are improving slowly but surely too.

 

Here in canada you need to get the set top box as part of the cable subscription. There's no way around it. And since the Smart TV features will soon be the norm most people will have this too before the end of the One era.

 

I just don't see the point of running an HDMI cable from my set top box to my One, then from my One to my receiver and then from my receiver to my TV and powering my One everytime i want to watch TV since most of the features the One will offer are already (or soon will be) covered by my set top box and my TV. Maybe the UI of my set top box is not as pretty but who cares really it's silent, i can record many shows at the same time, it has a tv guide, i can watch tv on demand, order movies from a single button, watch more than one channel at the same time using image over image, install some simple widgets like weather or lotery numbers, rewind and replay a sport event as much as i want, etc etc etc



#19 episode

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:48

So, MS are going to have available every TV code and every set top box code there is, for the XBox One to send?  What about the many people who get digital TV over the air, such as the majority of homes in the UK? In many cases, there IS no set top box, and almost none of those TV's have a HDMI out, either.

 

The TV features are nice, but I just don't see how they're going to work for many countries outside of the US.   For you guys, cable TV might be the norm, but outside the US it's a whole other story.  Even IN the US, I doubt it'll cover a huge number of folks...

 

Would be nice if MS actually ponied up some REAL information about how this is going to work...

Newsflash: They don't care about anything outside of the US.



#20 slapfacemcdougal

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:57

Newsflash: They don't care about anything outside of the US.

And people in the US don't care about anything outside the US either, so it's win/win for them.



#21 George P

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 14:58

Depending on the deals with the providers that they do the advertising could be shared with most of the split going to them and not MS.

#22 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:02

So it's NOT a problem, in your opinion, that people outside of the US would most likely have to buy tuner just so they can use all of the Xbone's features? Are you serious?

 

Also, didn't Microsoft market and name it after the fact that the Xbox One as an all-in-one entertainment box? Shouldn't that mean it should come with a tuner? To me, that's equivalent to selling someone an "HTPC" computer without a tuner.

 

well it's interesting because the xbox One is the only console that has this feature.

and No it doesn't mean the Xbox One should come with a tuner. you can buy a tuner box if you don't have a cable/satellite company or you can just use the console the traditional way just like you would any other console or you can make other uses of the hdmi input  (it doesn't have to be a tv that goes in there)

 

Uh huh. "Hey guys, pass everything you watch through our box. We're not using it for advertising purposes at all, seriously, it's for your entertainment!"

 

Not that cable boxes are any better, per se, but this has always seemed like a data-grab by MS to me.

 

I don't get your point at all. I really don't because if you're trying to say dont' use it because Microsoft is going to use your data for advertising purposes then I'm sure you don't use google search engine (because google's revenue stream that they make billions of dollars from is from advertisements made possible through every search you do). as a matter of fact i'm sure you don't use a single search engine then, right? because if you do then you'd just be like another hypocrite.

 

So they shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work in the UK? This is like they shouldn't offer downloadable games because someone with poor internet connection might not be able to download them.

 

same thing I'm saying. it's crazy how people keep trying to find fault after another even when there's really none. they just keep moving the goal post.

anyways, I'm looking forward to the TV feature and will be downloading my games digitally, unless I'm buying really old cheap used games.



#23 jerzdawg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:15

Personnally and this is my opinion only i don't see any future in this outside USA. You'll always need a set top box if you live outside USA. There's too many proprietary things like Vidéotron's Cana Indigo and Vidéotron's Illico on demand for MS to support them all. And set top box UI and features keep improving. For the things not supported by your set top box there will be Smart TV which are improving slowly but surely too.

 

Here in canada you need to get the set top box as part of the cable subscription. There's no way around it. And since the Smart TV features will soon be the norm most people will have this too before the end of the One era.

 

I just don't see the point of running an HDMI cable from my set top box to my One, then from my One to my receiver and then from my receiver to my TV and powering my One everytime i want to watch TV since most of the features the One will offer are already (or soon will be) covered by my set top box and my TV. Maybe the UI of my set top box is not as pretty but who cares really it's silent, i can record many shows at the same time, it has a tv guide, i can watch tv on demand, order movies from a single button, watch more than one channel at the same time using image over image, install some simple widgets like weather or lotery numbers, rewind and replay a sport event as much as i want, etc etc etc

I'm sure the xbox will have a passthrough similar to receivers that the unit does not need to be powered on to pass the signal through.  So if you just want to watch tv without the xbox, feel free.  If anything you can free up an hdmi input on your receiver, I think I have 7 and pretty sure I only have 1 left so there's a + right?



#24 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:21

I'm not sure where you're going with this about how it's going to work for those people who doesn't have HDMI out/cable box. those people will just be stuck with using the console the traditional way (just like they would any other console). are far as it seems and I've read TV is not the only thing that the xbox one can take through the hdmi in, it can take xbox 360, PC or hdmi output from other devices.

anyways, there are many DTV tuners with HDMI output so to me you're just trying to find a problem where there really isn't one.

 

also it's not Microsoft's fault those people don't have cable/satellite box, but other people shouldn't suffer because some people can't use a certain feature. but to me its better that the feature be there until those people can use it rather than not have the feature at all.

or is it that you wanted Microsoft to have also included a DTV tuner inside the xbox one????

 

I'm not trying to make a problem where there isn't one, I'm trying to work out how MS are going to make the TV features work. MS are marketing it as a great TV experience, but from what I know of different TV systems around the world (not a huge amount, I admit), it's only going to be that for quite a small percentage of people worldwide, given what info (none) we currently have.

 

Take the UK as an example. There are 5 main ways of getting your TV.

 

1. OTA into a set top "Freeview" digital decoder for older TV.s

2. OTA into a more modern TV with a built in Freeview decoder

3. Satellite via "Freesat" into a set top box

4. Satellite via SkyTV into a set top box

5. Cable TV from Virgin Media, into a set top box.

 

#1, which is the largest group, is served by literally HUNDREDS of different makes of set top box, and quite a lot of these are "el cheapo" ones with no HDMI out as they're designed for old TV's. Most of these just have an RF out, or maybe a SCART out.  These just aren't going to work with XB1.

 

#2, the second largest group.  I don't know of any TV models that actually have HDMI out, though there might be a few.  No idea how these will work with XB1.

 

Numbers #3 to #5 will mostly have HDMI out so should be OK, BUT, only newer STB's are sure to have it.  I know plenty of folks with old boxes that work perfectly well, that do not have HDMI out.

 

So, with just the UK alone, you have quite a lot of options.  Also, all that hardware have their own ways of talking to the box with IR codes, so this isn't exactly a minor issue.  Multiply that by the number of countries they're launching in and, well... I'm glad I'm not on that project!

 

As for your comment about MS's fault.  Not once did I say it WAS their fault!  If they want to launch with just support for one way to get TV, that's entirely their choice.  Doing so however, WILL affect sales.  Personally, I'd only be interested in buying one if ALL of its features work without me having to buy extra gear.  if it doesn't, then I doubt I'll bother.  FWIW, I'm in group 5 so might be fine, but I'm thinking about more than myself.


So they shouldn't do it because it wouldn't work in the UK? This is like they shouldn't offer downloadable games because someone with poor internet connection might not be able to download them.

 

Where did I say that?  Please don't put words in to my mouth.

 

Microsoft are releasing this console in quite a lot of countries and are touting this feature big time; therefore this feature needs to work in all those countries.  If it's US only, then that's going to hurt their sales figures rather a lot.

 

Stop being so US-centric.  The world is larger than your little corner of it.



#25 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:22

So it's NOT a problem, in your opinion, that people outside of the US would most likely have to buy tuner just so they can use all of the Xbone's features? Are you serious?

 

Also, didn't Microsoft market and name it after the fact that the Xbox One as an all-in-one entertainment box? Shouldn't that mean it should come with a tuner? To me, that's equivalent to selling someone an "HTPC" computer without a tuner.

 

YES I am serious.

If I made a car and marketed it as an off road vehicle but you can't drive over boulders unless you buy a certain type of suspension and tire combo.....are you saying that because I market my car as an off road vehicle I should also supply everyone of those cars I sell with the suspensions and tire combo so some people can drive over boulders off road?

 

it's the same thing, just because Microsoft is marketing their console as an all in one entertainment system doesn't mean they have to cater to every form of input under the sun so everyone can enjoy every feature, there will always be those who will need to buy extra parts to enjoy it.



#26 threetonesun

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:38

I don't get your point at all. I really don't because if you're trying to say dont' use it because Microsoft is going to use your data for advertising purposes then I'm sure you don't use google search engine (because google's revenue stream that they make billions of dollars from is from advertisements made possible through every search you do). as a matter of fact i'm sure you don't use a single search engine then, right? because if you do then you'd just be like another hypocrite.

When I use Google, I get search results in exchange for some information. If I run my TV through an Xbox, I get... the same TV I already paid for, but Microsoft collects some part of the information, and gives me nothing.

 

I own an Xbox, before you get all high and mighty on me, and I own stock in MS so I'm all for this. My point was this has always been an obvious advertising grab by Microsoft. XBox live, on the whole, always has been, and if you can't recognize that, then perhaps their advertising is working even better than they thought. The target audience of the Xbox is a gold mine to advertisers, the more data they can get and the more ads they can serve, the better.



#27 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:54

When I use Google, I get search results in exchange for some information. If I run my TV through an Xbox, I get... the same TV I already paid for, but Microsoft collects some part of the information, and gives me nothing.

 

I own an Xbox, before you get all high and mighty on me, and I own stock in MS so I'm all for this. My point was this has always been an obvious advertising grab by Microsoft. XBox live, on the whole, always has been, and if you can't recognize that, then perhaps their advertising is working even better than they thought. The target audience of the Xbox is a gold mine to advertisers, the more data they can get and the more ads they can serve, the better.

 

I imagine the Nielson people etc will be quite interested in that data, too.



#28 vetFourjays

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 16:35

many of the cable satellite companies have apps that give their customers access/dvr management of their DVR list, I'm sure those apps will show up on the xbox one and searchable through bing on the device. this should give the allusion that the xO has direct access to the dvr list.

 

again there are many DTV tuners that has hdmi out so those customers who want the tv functionally can buy one of those also along with the console if they don't have one already. so with this there's no real issue.

Only thing we can do with Sky TV here is set recordings via websites/apps. Nothing to watch recordings.



#29 spenser.d

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 17:34

When I use Google, I get search results in exchange for some information. If I run my TV through an Xbox, I get... the same TV I already paid for, but Microsoft collects some part of the information, and gives me nothing.

 

I own an Xbox, before you get all high and mighty on me, and I own stock in MS so I'm all for this. My point was this has always been an obvious advertising grab by Microsoft. XBox live, on the whole, always has been, and if you can't recognize that, then perhaps their advertising is working even better than they thought. The target audience of the Xbox is a gold mine to advertisers, the more data they can get and the more ads they can serve, the better.

 

Microsoft has already said what they'll be able to give you though - they can suggest shows you might like or tell you about upcoming shows, or give you bonus material through SmartGlass or snap view to name a couple of things.  They're going to be able to give us plenty by using the data we're providing them.



#30 sharpy2k4

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 00:24

In terms of UK Law isn't there something about the product being fit for purpose. I.E. You buy a product marketed as being capable of doing X. Yet to do X you need to do ABC etc. Then it wouldn't be fit for purpose and is effectively mis-selling the product?

 

Easiest way in the UK would be to solely work with Sky/Virgin as an "extra feature" that it can replace/work alongside their set top box as both their newer boxes have HDMI out on them.