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#16 spenser.d

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:34

XBLA is a stellar service and has been for 8 years now.  Not sure what they need to "fix".  That said, they already allow this on the Windows 8/WP8 platform, so there's no reason to think they won't for Xbox One.




#17 Andrew

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:09

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.



#18 ahhell

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:35

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.

MS tried to innovate.  Look where that got them.  :|



#19 Andrew

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:46

Did they? I think they tried to line their pocket tbh.

 

And for the final time, DRM/24hr activation is not required for the things they want to do. There are other ways. If Reddit/Neogaf can come up with solutions better than Microsoft you know something is wrong. Also, I'm not strictly speaking about those issues either. In fact, my concern is the same AAA games released every year & publishers/developers getting ###### because people aren't buying it any more. No ###### right?



#20 Rodrigo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 14:00

Did they? I think they tried to line their pocket tbh.

 

And for the final time, DRM/24hr activation is not required for the things they want to do. There are other ways. If Reddit/Neogaf can come up with solutions better than Microsoft you know something is wrong. Also, I'm not strictly speaking about those issues either. In fact, my concern is the same AAA games released every year & publishers/developers getting ****ed because people aren't buying it any more. No **** right?

 

What, how? I mean, I can argue back and forth that Microsoft knows better than Reddit/Neogaf, but it's obvious you won't concede that. At the end, it's always about money, but with people like you is more like "GREEEEEEEEEEEDY COMPANIES THAT WANT MONEY!!!!!"

 

Also, we can't even discuss the family sharing feature. Because as soon as someone points something good, the only argument around these forums becomes "YOU ARE DELUSIONAL IF YOU BELIEVE THAT WAS GOING TO BE TRUE" which just shows the lame backwards mindset of some of the individuals here.

 

But hey, let's stick to what we have, if it's not broken why fix it, right?  :rofl:

 

SOMEHOW, all of this is just a greedy scheme for Microsoft (but funny that some people forget Sony is also a corporation, double standars?).

 

Maybe next generation the backwards minded people won't interfere too much. MAYBE. :D

 

And honestly, I already posted some articule in one of the 10 threads regarding Indies and Microsoft, which explains why they are no longer wanting self-publishing. To make it short, some developers may get screwed because they have to get a publisher, but most of them just abuse the system and try to get some quick money from publishing awful games. Anyway, Indie is just a word now, these games have quite a big budget, but I suppose if you are not part of a big dev company you are Indie.



#21 greenwizard88

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 14:00

  I went back and corrected it.  I don't remember Microsoft ever putting out information about development on the Xbox One. Can you provide me with a link other than that.  I don't trust sources right now because they have an agenda against Microsoft and it's not rational. 

 

This is the only thing that I can find on the subject....

 

We're working on a plan for (sic). Xbox One is a platform that allows all creators, including those who work on games and apps, regardless of team size, funding, biz model, etc. to be a part of the future of Xbox One.

 

That was from Major Nelson.  So, I would be very careful to assume anything right now as people are not going to trust Microsoft on anything, because they are angry that they thought they were getting their rights taken away.  

 

The Internet is the worlds largest lynch mob and a lot of times it's simply undeserved. 

 

My guess is that Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided that indie game development is part of programming, and belongs at build - not E3. So they'll have their announcement, just... after E3, not during it when everyone expects it to happen.

 

In a (what has become) typical Microsoft PR disaster, they don't release information when the consumer expects it, takes a lot of flack for it, and then release it later when everyone stopped caring.



#22 spenser.d

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 14:09

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.

 

Please show me this "droves".  All we ever hear about is a couple of developers speaking out, while the rest are busy making money off of XBLA.  I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but it's still an excellent service that serves up great games.



#23 George P

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 17:35

Could MS have done the game sharing without the 24hr check?  Maybe, one way would be to require any system/account change, like installing a game or deleting it, to require a connection at that time for the process to complete.  Then the change gets registered on Live for your account.    Still I think even with something simple and reasonable as that that there would still be a group that wouldn't like it.

 

I've talked about tradeoffs before, any type of digital disc free service that will allow you to share your games with people will also require some type of security check.   There's just no way around it.



#24 Andrew

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:07

What, how? I mean, I can argue back and forth that Microsoft knows better than Reddit/Neogaf, but it's obvious you won't concede that. At the end, it's always about money, but with people like you is more like "GREEEEEEEEEEEDY COMPANIES THAT WANT MONEY!!!!!"

 

Also, we can't even discuss the family sharing feature. Because as soon as someone points something good, the only argument around these forums becomes "YOU ARE DELUSIONAL IF YOU BELIEVE THAT WAS GOING TO BE TRUE" which just shows the lame backwards mindset of some of the individuals here.

 

But hey, let's stick to what we have, if it's not broken why fix it, right?  :rofl:

 

SOMEHOW, all of this is just a greedy scheme for Microsoft (but funny that some people forget Sony is also a corporation, double standars?).

 

Maybe next generation the backwards minded people won't interfere too much. MAYBE. :D

 

And honestly, I already posted some articule in one of the 10 threads regarding Indies and Microsoft, which explains why they are no longer wanting self-publishing. To make it short, some developers may get screwed because they have to get a publisher, but most of them just abuse the system and try to get some quick money from publishing awful games. Anyway, Indie is just a word now, these games have quite a big budget, but I suppose if you are not part of a big dev company you are Indie.

 

I'm not saying Reddit/Neogaf are perfect in their assessments of what should be done every time, but if we're talking about the DRM/24hr activation then yes, their solutions were better than Microsoft's. If the trade off is I need to use my disc offline then that's perfectly acceptable (just one example). I am not against Microsoft making money, they're running a business after all, so your accusation that I think they're just greedy or that somehow we are entitled to something is false. Maybe some people just need to get some balls and call out a company when they make a decision that doesn't make sense / infringes consumers rights. Thankfully that is the case and whatever the real reason they changed their minds, at least they saw sense in the end.

 

Of course there is advantages to the family sharing, or more so, there is advantages to a digital console. However, some of you clearly do believe that the console was going to allow you the freedom to share without restrictions which is ridiculous. The games weren't region free. I'm sure had they bothered to go into detail that would have cropped up & you wouldn't have been able to share Halo 5 with your Granny 5000 miles away in South Asia :rolleyes: More so, do you actually believe they would cut their sales down to 1 in 10 paying for a game between them, just because you need to be online to authenticate? Really?! Wow..

 

Microsoft no longer want self publishing? Are you suggesting that the 360 had self publishing to begin with on XBLA? lol Don't think I need to waste my time any more on that topic if that's the case.

 

Microsoft want what Steam has. An online distribution console under the TV in the living room, and that includes being able to allow indies to sell games. There is absolutely no reason to force developers to give away a % of their game. It doesn't prevent anything. Perhaps you missed the scandal earlier this year over Aliens CM? That wasn't even indie but it didn't stop SEGA publishing an awful game or Gearbox using bait/switch tactics for a cheap buck. So why would it stop anyone on XBLA/PSN/Steam or any other DD service. It doesn't, and I can name plenty of cheap cash grabs on all of them.

 

 

 

Please show me this "droves".  All we ever hear about is a couple of developers speaking out, while the rest are busy making money off of XBLA.  I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but it's still an excellent service that serves up great games.

 

Go watch the PS4 brief again then watch the X1's and tell me the numbers of indies. Even those that aren't speaking out are only releasing their games via PSN for consoles. Some even brave enough to test the waters on Nintendo Network. But a large amount all say they wish they'd never bothered with the XBLA version or that they didn't spend the time/effort/money to jump through Microsoft's hoops. There is a small number who are very vocal sure, but even the PS3 is getting hits like Hotline Miami exclusively over X360.

 

I know XBLA is good. It's the only redeeming feature for me today on 360 and why I have over 130+ XBLA games alone. I'm glad I've finally got you to admit it's flawed, because to suggest otherwise and I really would question your integrity/opinions on this forum. Steam doesn't even get it right 100% of the time either, but my point is MS have fallen behind and let go of the advantage they had. Steam have at least laid down the foundations for something indies can use to get their games on the platform easier. Sony are going out of their way to visit developers with dev kits / present to them their vision for PSN and why they'd be a good fit. All the while MS have wasted time on god knows what.



#25 ctrl_alt_delete

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:33

Could MS have done the game sharing without the 24hr check?  Maybe, one way would be to require any system/account change, like installing a game or deleting it, to require a connection at that time for the process to complete.  Then the change gets registered on Live for your account.    Still I think even with something simple and reasonable as that that there would still be a group that wouldn't like it.

 

I've talked about tradeoffs before, any type of digital disc free service that will allow you to share your games with people will also require some type of security check.   There's just no way around it.

 

what I thought they could've done was in order to trade/sell games

1) you would have to de-authenticate said game from your account and the system gives you a one use code for said game.

2) de-authenticated games are removed from the harddrive by the system but kept in the online repository (if the game is on a different hddnot connected to the system then it can't be de-authenticated).

3) if the user wants to re-authenticate said game they would need to use the 1 use code. if they trade the game to gamestop (or like place) the game is removed from the user's online repository. if another use on a different xbox use the code, the game is removed from the first user's repository and added to the later account.

I think that would've eliminated the need for a 24/hr check.



#26 George P

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:57

what I thought they could've done was in order to trade/sell games

1) you would have to de-authenticate said game from your account and the system gives you a one use code for said game.

2) de-authenticated games are removed from the harddrive by the system but kept in the online repository (if the game is on a different hddnot connected to the system then it can't be de-authenticated).

3) if the user wants to re-authenticate said game they would need to use the 1 use code. if they trade the game to gamestop (or like place) the game is removed from the user's online repository. if another use on a different xbox use the code, the game is removed from the first user's repository and added to the later account.

I think that would've eliminated the need for a 24/hr check.

Probably would also work but I think the 24hr check is specifically for the disc-less option, which is why when you do a action with said disc game I'd say it'd need to do a online call home to register.    I don't think it had much to do specifically with the whole used game bit but that that was effected by it as a outcome.   



#27 +Graimer

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:16

Probably would also work but I think the 24hr check is specifically for the disc-less option, which is why when you do a action with said disc game I'd say it'd need to do a online call home to register.    I don't think it had much to do specifically with the whole used game bit but that that was effected by it as a outcome.   

 

disc-less and family sharing (making sure only one plays the game at the same time)** :-)



#28 WinMunkee

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:20

From what I can tell, the Xbox Marketplace is going to work like Windows 8's and you can self publish there.



#29 ahhell

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:32

The big problem with self publishing is that because a dumping ground for crapware.



#30 Luc2k

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:36

If MS are going to be ###### about this, indy devs should just ignore them. Surely all the other platforms have the user base to make any good game a success.