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Windows RT facing pressure from being isolated

win8 winrt failure

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#16 Wyn6

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:02

as an RT tablet and Win8 Pro desktop owner I'm not surprised.

 

as much as I try to like RT tablets (or Pro tablets) the operating system just isn't properly designed.

 

Example....(it's just one of many btw)

 

iPad/Android.....  Perform a system update (2 minutes) DONE.  Factory reset device (1 minute).  Device is still up to date

 

Windows RT/Pro....  Perform Windows Updates (2 Hours & 4 Reboots).  Then do MS Store App Updates (9 times out of 10 they hang).  Reboot, try again.  Factory Reset (30 minutes).  Device now needs fully updating again.

You made need to check your devices. NONE of my devices has EVER taken anywhere near that long to update. And, none of the app updates have ever hung either. Think you may have been dealt a bad hand.




#17 Phouchg

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:04

Im soooo tired of retarded articles like this...as soon as I see this uninformed garbage I move on

 

Do.



#18 ahhell

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:06

Not once did OEMs even try to release a competing RT tablet, they simply gave up instead of trying to do anything meaningful. 

Oops.  Reread your previous comment.  Thought you had said that "Surface can't compete so MS gave up".

That just goes to show that you should never post on threads after eating a ton of pasta for lunch. :pinch:

 

You are right.  The 3rd parties didn't really try but then again why would anyone want anything from ACER or ZTE anyway.



#19 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:23

Holy ****! 2 hours?! What the hell are you doing? I've restored Windows 8 in less than 30 minutes, that includes updates.

 

well I don't know what tablet you have been using, but my personal dell xps 10 and works surface rt both have incredibly slow disk subsystems.  Restoring back to factory defaults in itself takes 30 minutes without then doing all the updates (I have fibre broadband so that's not the bottleneck).  Just goes to show it's NOT a proper tablet OS.  Why do I have to update after factory reset?  Ipad and Android don't.  It's because it's windows 8 (on arm) stuck in a tablet shell.

 

In the end I got that fed up with it, I ran diskpart to show the hidden recovery partition, copied the wim over to my PC, manually downloaded all the updates and injected them with DISM



#20 +Brandon Live

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:33

as an RT tablet and Win8 Pro desktop owner I'm not surprised.

 

as much as I try to like RT tablets (or Pro tablets) the operating system just isn't properly designed.

 

Example....(it's just one of many btw)

 

iPad/Android.....  Perform a system update (2 minutes) DONE.  Factory reset device (1 minute).  Device is still up to date

 

Windows RT/Pro....  Perform Windows Updates (2 Hours & 4 Reboots).  Then do MS Store App Updates (9 times out of 10 they hang).  Reboot, try again.  Factory Reset (30 minutes).  Device now needs fully updating again.

 

None of that has been my experience. My iPad experience has mostly been that updates cause it to go into recovery mode and I have to restore the whole thing from iTunes which takes more than 1 minute. I haven't had my iPad Mini long enough to know if it will fare better in that regard.

 

A factory reset on a Surface RT shouldn't take 30 minutes. And I've never had an app store update hang on Windows. I have, however, on the iPad Mini.


well I don't know what tablet you have been using, but my personal dell xps 10 and works surface rt both have incredibly slow disk subsystems.  Restoring back to factory defaults in itself takes 30 minutes without then doing all the updates (I have fibre broadband so that's not the bottleneck).  Just goes to show it's NOT a proper tablet OS.  Why do I have to update after factory reset?  Ipad and Android don't.  It's because it's windows 8 (on arm) stuck in a tablet shell.

 

In the end I got that fed up with it, I ran diskpart to show the hidden recovery partition, copied the wim over to my PC, manually downloaded all the updates and injected them with DISM

 

Umm, the iPad has similarly slow flash memory, and takes much longer than you make it sound to restore. Until recently you had to connect to a PC with iTunes to restore an iPad, how is that easier or faster? I think now they have the option to download the latest version from the cloud to restore it, though I haven't seen that in action myself. That would still take more than 1 minute I am very sure.

 

Or are you just talking about resetting to default settings, and not a full restore? That's obviously very fast on both systems and obviously doesn't require installing updates after.

 

Sounds like you're confusing different operations perhaps.


well I don't know what tablet you have been using, but my personal dell xps 10 and works surface rt both have incredibly slow disk subsystems.  Restoring back to factory defaults in itself takes 30 minutes without then doing all the updates (I have fibre broadband so that's not the bottleneck).  Just goes to show it's NOT a proper tablet OS.  Why do I have to update after factory reset?  Ipad and Android don't.  It's because it's windows 8 (on arm) stuck in a tablet shell.

 

In the end I got that fed up with it, I ran diskpart to show the hidden recovery partition, copied the wim over to my PC, manually downloaded all the updates and injected them with DISM

 

You say it's "not a proper tablet OS" but if you're using DISM and reimaging the thing regularly then you're not using it as a tablet. Nobody does that. Reimaging is for two cases:

1) I'm going to sell the thing and want to wipe everything of mine off of it.

2) Something went disastrously wrong and as a last resort I'll restore it and start again.

 

Neither of those should be happening in your regular usage of the device.



#21 TheExperiment

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:34

Not once did OEMs even try to release a competing RT tablet, they simply gave up instead of trying to do anything meaningful. 

I saw some decent ASUS ones.  I just don't think they're worth it...waiting for an 8 Temash/Kabini tablet since Atom is garbage.



#22 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:39

don't get me wrong, I own both a Nexus 7, iPad 3 and dell XPS 10 RT

 

I'm keeping the RT.  Yeah it has it's flaws....my god does it have flaws.  BUT it can do one thing the other two can't

 

You can use hulu via the website rather than having to pay for the Hulu Plus app :woot:   Guess that's because it's almost the full blown windows 8.

 

What a double edge sword



#23 notchinese

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:41

as an RT tablet and Win8 Pro desktop owner I'm not surprised.

 

as much as I try to like RT tablets (or Pro tablets) the operating system just isn't properly designed.

 

Example....(it's just one of many btw)

 

iPad/Android.....  Perform a system update (2 minutes) DONE.  Factory reset device (1 minute).  Device is still up to date

 

Windows RT/Pro....  Perform Windows Updates (2 Hours & 4 Reboots).  Then do MS Store App Updates (9 times out of 10 they hang).  Reboot, try again.  Factory Reset (30 minutes).  Device now needs fully updating again.

 

 

What a ridiculous bold-faced lie.



#24 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 18:43

What a ridiculous bold-faced lie.

 

well considering the wim file NEVER changes during a factory reset I think you'll find I am correct!

 

You can try it yourself.  Perform a factory reset.  Then do all the windows updates (which takes 4 reboots).  Then do all the app updates.

Now factory reset again and see if you need to update again.  YES YOU WILL!

 

If anyone can tell me how to factory reset an RT tablet whilst keeping all the updates I'll be VERY happy.  Will save my Infrastructure team hours whilst onsite at clients.

 

Example...

 

When iOS 7 is released you will perform the upgrade which installs into ROM.  Say you then factory reset.  You still got iOS7 :-)

 

When MS releases Windows 8.1 you will get it either from the store or via windows updates.  Say you then factory reset.  Because the wim file hasn't changed you will be restoring 8.0.  Which means you then have to install 8.1 again.  This is the point I'm trying to get across with windows updates.  They are NOT dismed into the wim

 

That's one of the core differences between MS tablet OSes and ios / android devices.  Hence me saying win8 is a double edge sword.  It has both pros and cons.



#25 Dot Matrix

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:00

well considering the wim file NEVER changes during a factory reset I think you'll find I am correct!

 

You can try it yourself.  Perform a factory reset.  Then do all the windows updates (which takes 4 reboots).  Then do all the app updates.

Now factory reset again and see if you need to update again.  YES YOU WILL!

 

If anyone can tell me how to factory reset an RT tablet whilst keeping all the updates I'll be VERY happy.  Will save my Infrastructure team hours whilst onsite at clients.

 

Why are you regularly performing factory resets? You shouldn't be.



#26 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:07

Why are you regularly performing factory resets? You shouldn't be.

 

We deal with large scale FIM and BYOD deployments.  Trust me, when you are coding complex meta-agents and device profiling, you need to make sure any changes are done on factory fresh machines.

 

ok, yeah, most people won't be factory resetting as much as us.....this was just ONE annoyance I was trying to highlight with MS and their 'tablet' OS

 

When it's more like a laptop in a tablet formfactor, that's good and bad



#27 threetonesun

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:10

I think more people think you're lying about doing an iOS factory reset in a few minutes. I usually walk away and go watch a movie if I have to do that. :laugh:



#28 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:14

I think more people think you're lying about doing an iOS factory reset in a few minutes. I usually walk away and go watch a movie if I have to do that. :laugh:

 

I have to say that the last time I did that on an iPhone 5, it didn't take very long.  Last time on an iPad was about a year ago and can't remember the exact time (im sure it wasn't anywhere near 2 hours though).

 

Actually my wife has an ipad, but not sure she would appreciate me wiping her device  to do a youtube comparison video :D

 

HOWEVER!!  What I will say is that after I factory reset using MY dism'ed wim the app updates have never crashed.  Maybe it's because it already contains this

 

http://support.micro....com/kb/2808380

 

because im such a good guy, if anyone wants it for their XPS 10 let me know.  Trust me, it really does save HOURS!



#29 Dot Matrix

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:15

We deal with large scale FIM and BYOD deployments.  Trust me, when you are coding complex meta-agents and device profiling, you need to make sure any changes are done on factory fresh machines.

 

ok, yeah, most people won't be factory resetting as much as us.....this was just ONE annoyance I was trying to highlight with MS and their 'tablet' OS

 

When it's more like a laptop in a tablet formfactor, that's good and bad

 

Then why not use System Restore?

 

Factory reset > Install updates > Create restore point > Do your thing > Revert to restore point > Install updates as needed > Create additional restore points as updates are installed > Do your thing > Rise, lather, and repeat



#30 glen8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:26

Then why not use System Restore?

 

the project would never get signed off.  Some we can, but mostly we factory reset.  That's a side issue though, why we do this is not important.  Once configmgr 2012 R2 is out we shall more than likely just put a capture task sequence in and grab the image from a pre configured machine.  IF these can PXE boot all the better, else we'll have to use USB sticks again.

 

That doesn't get around the fact that factory resetting the machine looses any and all updates.  Can't understand why people think differently.  I'm not lying....trust me I wish I were.  Thinking about it, if MS extracted the WIM to the recovery partition and injected the updates simultaneously to the machine and the recovery partition together....that could work.

 

Sorry I kinda feel I've taken the thread off in another direction :blush: