Jump to content



Photo

Windows RT facing pressure from being isolated

win8 winrt failure

  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#31 ahhell

ahhell

    Neowinian Senior

  • 8,896 posts
  • Joined: 30-June 03
  • Location: Winnipeg - coldest place on Earth - yeah

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:30

the project would never get signed off.  Some we can, but mostly we factory reset.  That's a side issue though, why we do this is not important.

 

That doesn't get around the fact that factory resetting the machine looses any and all updates.  Can't understand why people think differently.  I'm not lying....trust me I wish I were.  Thinking about it, if MS extracted the WIM to the recovery partition and injected the updates simultaneously to the machine and the recovery partition together....that could work.

It's a factory reset!!  It's not like it automatically dumps patches/updates into the factory WIM.  Geez. :s




#32 Dashel

Dashel

    Disgustipator

  • 7,806 posts
  • Joined: 03-December 01
  • Location: USA

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:32

Stop trying to create solutions and actually understand his criticism for once.  Compared to other slates, RT has a lot more legacy 'PC' maint baggage.  You can't argue your way around that. 



#33 glen8

glen8

    Neowinian

  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined: 16-August 02

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:33

It's a factory reset!!  It's not like it automatically dumps patches/updates into the factory WIM.  Geez. :s

 

Hence my entire point :laugh:



#34 WinMunkee

WinMunkee

    Neowinian

  • 177 posts
  • Joined: 09-August 12

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:33

This article is bad. RT isn't going anywhere and hasn't had a chance to even mature yet. It's an OS for people that don't want to spend a lot of money, and need a portable consumption device. Give it time.



#35 glen8

glen8

    Neowinian

  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined: 16-August 02

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:34

Stop trying to create solutions and actually understand his criticism for once.  Compared to other slates, RT has a lot more legacy 'PC' maint baggage.  You can't argue your way around that. 

 

I'm pleased someone understands

 

Personally, work aside, I tried to install the Sky news app onto my own tablet.  It didn't work, just did nothing.  Rebooted (windows is installing update 1 of 39).

Then when it booted back up it started configuring updates.  Then when I finally got it, tried again and the app installed fine.

 

I think certain apps won't work if there are updates pending installation.

 

I was ok with it because I understand this stuff, but if MS wants greater market penetration with their offerings they really have to do better.



#36 HawkMan

HawkMan

    Neowinian Senior

  • 21,977 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 04
  • Location: Norway
  • Phone: Noka Lumia 1020

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:49

I have to say that the last time I did that on an iPhone 5, it didn't take very long.  Last time on an iPad was about a year ago and can't remember the exact time (im sure it wasn't anywhere near 2 hours though).

 

Actually my wife has an ipad, but not sure she would appreciate me wiping her device  to do a youtube comparison video :D

 

HOWEVER!!  What I will say is that after I factory reset using MY dism'ed wim the app updates have never crashed.  Maybe it's because it already contains this

 

http://support.micro....com/kb/2808380

 

because im such a good guy, if anyone wants it for their XPS 10 let me know.  Trust me, it really does save HOURS!

 

 

you do realize you can't comapre the ipad installing full version revisions in the rom to windows' rolling updates right ? 

 

when 8.1 comes out, it might be treated as a full "service Pack" or new release and the recovery version will get updated, but it might not. it's not really it's purpose, the recovery image is there to be able to ALWAYS bring you back to a working factory OS, hence "factory" reset.  

 

remember windows 8 has two methods to reset. one that brings you all the back to factory, and one that just refreshes everything and removes everything that's been installed. 

 

in any case, even in your "special" BYOD environment, I don't see why you would be factory resetting all the time. something seems wrong there. Especially on windows RT there should be NO reason to keep factory resetting no matter what the environment you're in. 



#37 Thief000

Thief000

    Neowinian

  • 1,414 posts
  • Joined: 24-December 05

Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:56

I liked the Samsung Ativ Tab. But then they decided not to release a keyboard dock or type cover for it, so I skipped it.

The Surface RT didn't have GPS, which I find very useful, so I skipped it.

 

Surface RT 2 will probably be released in the near future (rumors) so I hope that has GPS (and 3G/4G if possible) integrated.



#38 Growled

Growled

    Neowinian Senior

  • 41,508 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 08
  • Location: USA

Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:05

I personally would never use RT. The main reason to use Windows for me is the x86/x64 apps.



#39 TheExperiment

TheExperiment

    Reality Bomb

  • 5,393 posts
  • Joined: 11-October 03
  • Location: Everywhere
  • OS: 8.1 x64

Posted 20 June 2013 - 22:47

I personally would never use RT. The main reason to use Windows for me is the x86/x64 apps.

I'd take it over iPad or Android because of the integration - HomeGroups and the multiarch stuff I already own on Windows Store for examples.  My Nexus 7 didn't even know what a local network WAS, much less try to connect me to it.

 

But then, I don't think I'd get one unless it was really cheap., and since they seem hell bent on that Office inclusion I doubt that'll happen.



#40 georgevella

georgevella

    Software Developer

  • 1,123 posts
  • Joined: 15-May 02

Posted 20 June 2013 - 23:05

I personally would never use RT. The main reason to use Windows for me is the x86/x64 apps.

Exactly, nothing gets stuff done more than Windows, but rt makes for a good in-bed-before-sleep solution (damn i really need to get used to this split screen keyboard)



#41 Sith Kree of Arrendelle

Sith Kree of Arrendelle

    Neowinian

  • 78 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 13
  • Location: Arrendelle & The Knowhere
  • OS: Windows
  • Phone: iPod Touch

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:41

The only reason some OEMs didn't make windows phone devices was because of software fees. 

 

I believe Windows 8 and RT should get inspired by windows phone and release an OS with perfectly Optimized Windows Phone features for Tablet and Desktop PCs. And Take down software fees for the 3 Windows OSes! maybe they will do well



#42 glen8

glen8

    Neowinian

  • 1,001 posts
  • Joined: 16-August 02

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:22

I love the fact you can RDP to your win8 PC and use all the gestures as if you actually have full 8 Pro on it.

 

Unfortunately due to DRM, Silverlight doesn't stream over RDP (so no Lovefilm on RT).....and the Hulu site seems to stutter (Flash issue?) no matter if you select Low, Medium, High or HD



#43 +Brandon Live

Brandon Live

    Seattle geek

  • 9,786 posts
  • Joined: 08-June 03
  • Location: Seattle, WA

Posted 21 June 2013 - 19:50

well considering the wim file NEVER changes during a factory reset I think you'll find I am correct!

 

You can try it yourself.  Perform a factory reset.  Then do all the windows updates (which takes 4 reboots).  Then do all the app updates.

Now factory reset again and see if you need to update again.  YES YOU WILL!

 

If anyone can tell me how to factory reset an RT tablet whilst keeping all the updates I'll be VERY happy.  Will save my Infrastructure team hours whilst onsite at clients.

 

Example...

 

When iOS 7 is released you will perform the upgrade which installs into ROM.  Say you then factory reset.  You still got iOS7 :-)

 

When MS releases Windows 8.1 you will get it either from the store or via windows updates.  Say you then factory reset.  Because the wim file hasn't changed you will be restoring 8.0.  Which means you then have to install 8.1 again.  This is the point I'm trying to get across with windows updates.  They are NOT dismed into the wim

 

That's one of the core differences between MS tablet OSes and ios / android devices.  Hence me saying win8 is a double edge sword.  It has both pros and cons.

 

Monthly patches and the new OS update are entirely different things. You have no idea what the factory reset story is for a Surface RT with 8.1 installed.



#44 +Brandon Live

Brandon Live

    Seattle geek

  • 9,786 posts
  • Joined: 08-June 03
  • Location: Seattle, WA

Posted 21 June 2013 - 19:58

Stop trying to create solutions and actually understand his criticism for once.  Compared to other slates, RT has a lot more legacy 'PC' maint baggage.  You can't argue your way around that. 

 

Yes you can. The iPad used to take a long time to do a factory restore (I'm going on the assumption that he's correct it's changed recently, but I'm skeptical). That has nothing to do with "PC baggage" of any kind. They're just different approaches. The iPad requires you to be plugged into a PC to restore it, so it would use the latest image iTunes had downloaded. The Surface includes the full restore image on a recovery partition. The advantage is you can always restore it without a disk or tethering to a machine (or an internet connection and the patience to download the whole thing). A disadvantage of the implementation is that the image doesn't include monthly updates. This isn't legacy, this is an entire feature that was built just for Windows 8/RT devices. It was just built with different priorities and requirements in mind than the iPad's solution of tethering to iTunes.

 

 

I still think he's not talking about doing a restore operation on the iPad and is just talking about the "reset to factory settings" option, which is nothing like doing a full reimage of the device.



#45 Dashel

Dashel

    Disgustipator

  • 7,806 posts
  • Joined: 03-December 01
  • Location: USA

Posted 21 June 2013 - 20:12

I still think he's not talking about doing a restore operation on the iPad and is just talking about the "reset to factory settings" option, which is nothing like doing a full reimage of the device.

 

Isn't that exactly the point right there?  That there isn't an equivalent action for what he is asking? On competing devices, you get a reset to factory settings which RT doesn't have.  It only give the option of a refresh, which isn't profile destructive, or the full PC-reinstall, which is more than just dropping the latest image 'on' the device.

 

Do you disagree that even the conception of 'monthly patches' is anathema to the competition's firmware type updates, which is really his point?

 

Sure, its a different approach, just like squashing 'down' Windows for slates instead of 'growing up' WP is a different approach (and hence the need to tether or not).  That still isn't a denial of what is factually true - RT is clearly more PC like (pro and con) than the competition or WP in the 'post-PC' world.

 

So my question to you is, if unification is the M.O. MS has adopted, why do they treat phones differently?  Why wasn't RT developed with them in mind and not just slates/desktops?