55 posts in this topic

Posted

No, at least not in our generally conceived way.

 

That's why I'm being as specific as possible, to avoid any misunderstanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Groups like the ALF (animal liberation front) in the UK have been known to send mail bombs to people work in animal testing and meat production facilities. Some of them are extremely dangerous people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's like describing Republicans as a cult, or Democrats, or health nuts, or tech geeks (eh hmm, enthusiasts). It's a frivolous characterization, like calling any one who's strict a "Nazi", except no one actually believes that person might be an actual Nazi in those cases.

 

It's usually a feature of a cult to be religious in nature as well, and in a cult, most of the members are all on the same page. There's a group mindset in cults that causes members to lose their individuality and give over their free will in all aspects of their life to the doctrine of the group.

 

This list was made by vegan extremists. I don't think this is some sort of mainstream Vegan agenda that most vegans are on board with, or even know about.

 

 

 

Well cults aren't mainstream, so that perfectly why these particular vegans are displaying cult-like behaviours. As I said, I wouldn't use the word cult, I don't want the word to be diluted to the point anyone with extreme ideas is part of a cult, but I can see parallels there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

"Shame" them?

 

Not being funny but if i was once a vegan and i changed my mind, i wouldn't be ashamed of it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Sounds like a winner, but tonight we had a 6 lb rib roast w/mushroom gravy & roasted red potatoes, onions and carrots. I'll pick up some steaks tomorrow - and fix 'em nice & bloody ;)

your snack sounds a whole lot better than their tofurkey and organic salad

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well cults aren't mainstream, so that perfectly why these particular vegans are displaying cult-like behaviours. As I said, I wouldn't use the word cult, I don't want the word to be diluted to the point anyone with extreme ideas is part of a cult, but I can see parallels there.

 

So any group that calls out people that don't agree with them (attacking and shaming apostates) is cult-like?

 

That would make any Pro-Life group cult-like, global warming advocates cult-like, Christianity cult-like, etc.. If you're going to use broad generalizations to define a cult, inevitably everything begins to seem cult like and you can draw parallels. It's nonsense.

 

I suggest you read my conversation in this thread with @sanctified, particularly what defines a cult. After reading that definition, you'd understand that any military, or North Korea, has more parallels with a cult than what is known about this group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's funny, those of you who say humans were made as carnivores. That's really not very true. Human anatomy has characteristics much closer to herbivores. At some point we learned to make up for our natural disadvantages in hunting by using tools, and we started eating more meat and over time have evolved to a point where we act more like omnivores. We're certainly not carnivores because we get a lot of nutrients and balance we need from fruit and vegetables, but over time I'd say we're not herbivore either because we get protein and other useful things from meat that we eat. Actually, if you tried to go strict either way, you could be vegan and stay healthy fairly easily, making up for protein with nuts and some other higher protein vegetables. If you decided to just eat meat, you'd probably find it a lot more difficult to keep the proper balance of nutrients without taking supplements.

 

That said, I can't imagine being a vegan. I very much enjoy eating meat, and I don't see issue with it either. We are just animals like any other. Some people live in a dream world where every creature on earth is never disturbed, but that's not real life. In the real world animals eat other animals. It's the circle of life. I may not like how we mass breed and genetically engineer animals now, but unless everyone is going to go back to hunting for themselves, it's just part of optimizing the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's funny, those of you who say humans were made as carnivores. That's really not very true. Human anatomy has characteristics much closer to herbivores. At some point we learned to make up for our natural disadvantages in hunting by using tools, and we started eating more meat and over time have evolved to a point where we act more like omnivores. We're certainly not carnivores because we get a lot of nutrients and balance we need from fruit and vegetables, but over time I'd say we're not herbivore either because we get protein and other useful things from meat that we eat. Actually, if you tried to go strict either way, you could be vegan and stay healthy fairly easily, making up for protein with nuts and some other higher protein vegetables. If you decided to just eat meat, you'd probably find it a lot more difficult to keep the proper balance of nutrients without taking supplements.

 

That said, I can't imagine being a vegan. I very much enjoy eating meat, and I don't see issue with it either. We are just animals like any other. Some people live in a dream world where every creature on earth is never disturbed, but that's not real life. In the real world animals eat other animals. It's the circle of life. I may not like how we mass breed and genetically engineer animals now, but unless everyone is going to go back to hunting for themselves, it's just part of optimizing the process.

 

Actually, the reason that "we" survived and the Neanderthals did not was because our brains grew larger due to a higher PROTEIN intake (i.e. we ate meat and Neanderthal's didn't, or ate much less).  So yes, we survived and flourished BECAUSE we were carnivores.  Had we been vegans all along, we would have gone the way of the Neanderthals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Actually, the reason that "we" survived and the Neanderthals did not was because our brains grew larger due to a higher PROTEIN intake (i.e. we ate meat and Neanderthal's didn't, or ate much less).  So yes, we survived and flourished BECAUSE we were carnivores.  Had we been vegans all along, we would have gone the way of the Neanderthals.

We are not and never have been carnivores. We were omnivores because we wouldn't survive on just meat. Humans evolved and adapted over time to increasing meat in their diets, like I said before, it doesn't change the fact that the human anatomy is built very much in line with herbivores, because our earliest ancestors were more herbivore before becoming omnivore. Early humans were opportunistic eaters more than anything. Our bodies weren't designed to chase down and kill other animals as well, we don't have speed, claws, or sharp teeth, so we ate what meat may have been available from another animals kill, etc. Over time we developed tools and started to take on a far more omnivore diet than herbivore diet, which did help us to develop into what we are today like you said, but never were we carnivores.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

i'm a vegetarian myself, but this is stupid...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I once ate something that was casting a shadow :(

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So any group that calls out people that don't agree with them (attacking and shaming apostates) is cult-like?

 

That would make any Pro-Life group cult-like, global warming advocates cult-like, Christianity cult-like, etc.. If you're going to use broad generalizations to define a cult, inevitably everything begins to seem cult like and you can draw parallels. It's nonsense.

 

I suggest you read my conversation in this thread with @sanctified, particularly what defines a cult. After reading that definition, you'd understand that any military, or North Korea, has more parallels with a cult than what is known about this group.

 

Yes, Harassing (Drop the dishonesty and call it what it actually is) people that disagree with you is very cult like.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes, Harassing (Drop the dishonesty and call it what it actually is) people that disagree with you is very cult like.

 

Posting someone's name on a website and criticizing them for disagreeing with you is not harassment... It could be considered bullying though.

 

Bullying is not something that is specific to cults alone, and neither is harassment. If you're going to use that logic then every junior high and high school in the country has several "cult like" groups.

 

It's nonsense. It's like pretending to not understand the difference between an actual cult, and a cult fan base of a film or television show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes, and all that behaviour is cult like as well. It doesn't matter how you rationalise it, the fact that they didn't provide addresses is irrelevant, it is harassment. Besides, Bullying is just as disgusting as harassment and shouldn't be tolerated by reasonable people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I seen the sites before its being redirected to veganism wiki,

and I reach to the conclusion that its lump the 'hypocrites vegans' & 'openly ex-vegans' as one group: traitors.

 

While i could understand if it tries to criticize the hypocrites vegans, those who claim to be vegans when they are not,

But i also see that that sites makers rather blind their own eyes to whatever reasons that people stop being a vegan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Oh noes! The Vegans are coming! The Vegans are coming!!

 

Hey, I know how we can solve the "issue" of poorly treated animals!  Eat a Vegan!*  That's it folks! Save the Animals! Eat a Vegan today!

 

* I do not condone the eating of Vegans

** Proud member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

^ You, you Soylent green person. :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So any group that calls out people that don't agree with them (attacking and shaming apostates) is cult-like?

 

That would make any Pro-Life group cult-like, global warming advocates cult-like, Christianity cult-like, etc.. If you're going to use broad generalizations to define a cult, inevitably everything begins to seem cult like and you can draw parallels. It's nonsense.

 

I suggest you read my conversation in this thread with @sanctified, particularly what defines a cult. After reading that definition, you'd understand that any military, or North Korea, has more parallels with a cult than what is known about this group.

 

 

They're not "exposing" those who have never been vegan, they are "exposing" those who once were and then stopped.

 

It seems they are trying to whip up up hostility towards ex-vegans. Why go to all of the trouble of building a website and naming ex-vegans ? It's almost like a threat to other vegans "leave the movement or change your mind and you'll suffer". Kind of like what happens to ex-Scientologists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

They're not "exposing" those who have never been vegan, they are "exposing" those who once were and then stopped.

 

It seems they are trying to whip up up hostility towards ex-vegans. Why go to all of the trouble of building a website and naming ex-vegans ? It's almost like a threat to other vegans "leave the movement or change your mind and you'll suffer". Kind of like what happens to ex-Scientologists.

 

 

Your're making this website out to be something much more than it is... And it doesn't even exist in the form of when the article was written anymore.

 

Would these websites be, according to you, created by cult-like monogamist groups?

 

http://www.cheatersexpose.com/

http://www.cheaterville.com/

http://www.cheaternews.com/

 

This whole topic has become exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yes, and all that behaviour is cult like as well. It doesn't matter how you rationalise it, the fact that they didn't provide addresses is irrelevant, it is harassment. Besides, Bullying is just as disgusting as harassment and shouldn't be tolerated by reasonable people.

 

Then no one should tolerate most bloggers, newspapers, news channels, facebook pages, twitter feeds, or even Neowin's front page. Positng someone's name, or a list of people, on a website and criticizing them for disagreeing with you is not harassment. And, if that's all you do, it's not bullying either.

 

Reasonable... High school girl cliques are cult-like according to you.

 

Cult-like... If you describe a basketball as "zeppelin-like" because they're both filled with air, then that's reasonable.

 

I think it's ridiculous.

Edited by thomastmc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Context is important. When it's not done with the intention to harass it isn't harassment. This wasn't done for fun, they're doing it because they want to try and encourage others to make these people into social outcasts. It's textbook cult behaviour and exactly the same thing religious types do to people who dump their religion.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Context is important. When it's not done with the intention to harass it isn't harassment. This wasn't done for fun, they're doing it because they want to try and encourage others to make these people into social outcasts. It's textbook cult behaviour and exactly the same thing religious types do to people who dump their religion.

 

Context is important... :)

 

So, you're wrong about what harassment is. That is part of the context of your argument.

 

Harassment is characterized by repetitive behavior. Also, the person doing the harassment can have no intention of upsetting or threatening you in any way for their behavior to be harassment.

 

If I call you once (and even if I say something extremely insulting) and never talk to you or see you again, that is not harassment.

 

If I call you 100 times in a single day, you answer the phone after call 2 and tell me not to call you again, whether my intention is to bother you or to just get you to talk to me because I love you, it's harassment.

 

 ...the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/harassment

 

It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment

 

This act of people posting a picture of someone that they know and a snarky comment is no different than a tweet.

 

If one of your friends who hates fast food tweets a picture of you eating McDonald's and says "@Javik is eating something disgusting, what an idiot! #corporatemeat", is that person harassing you?

 

 

But, let's say you're right anyways, and see what that means:

 

 

So, what are you saying?!? Because context is important... 

 

1) Are you saying that this group of vegan extremists are shaming and "harassing" all ex-vegans that anyone wants to post to their site in order to shame the relatively non-existent few ex-members of this one particular extremist group?

 

2) Are you saying that all vegans are in a "cult-like" group, and this is an extremist group that is trying to shame and harass all ex-vegans back into the "cult-like" group?

 

Let's assume the first:

 

That doesn't make sense... (If this is what you're saying, please do explain how that makes sense).

 

Let's assume the second:

 

Let's put this argument in context:

 

If being in a group that harasses ex-members is enough for you to say that the group is "cult-like", then you're willing to attach a connotation to any group, such as that they are like a cult ("cult-like"), based upon a single generic behavior that is prone to many non-related groups. If you're willing to take a generic behavior that applies to one group, and say that another group is like that group because they share that one generic behavior, you end up with situations that are ridiculous and absurd, just like this, and just like these:

 

A football team is a "homosexual-like" group because they get on top of each other and smack each other on the butt when they do a good job.

 

Conspiracy theorists are a "presidential-like" group because they're both interested in current events and the state of the country.

 

Police are "nazi-like" because they both wear uniforms and are strict.

 

A "textbook" definition of a cult:

 

A Primer on Cults and Ideologically Extremist Groups

 

This primer explores the question "What is a cult?" and attempts to explain some of these behaviors that may often seem incomprehensible.

 

What are cults, and how do they work? A useful definition of a cult builds on the work of Lifton, Singer, Arendt and others and encompasses the following five points:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The joke is on you pal, it takes a real fool to look at harassment and act as if it's somehow being done to serve a greater purpose. Just a stab in the dark here but are you perchance a vegan or vegetarian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

they sound like the Scientologists, what they do when someone leaves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The joke is on you pal, it takes a real fool to look at harassment and act as if it's somehow being done to serve a greater purpose. Just a stab in the dark here but are you perchance a vegan or vegetarian?

 

It takes a real fool... Good choice of words, pal  :laugh:

 

How do you define a fool?

 

Why take the time to respond if you can't be bothered to defend your opinion? That was a long post I made, and you couldn't find one point to make on it?

 

If you're not a fool, it should have been nothing to throw together the facts and a rational argument to defend your opinion, but you can't. Instead you simply go on being wrong, and assuming you're right even though you can't defend your opinions, and the facts say otherwise.

 

Being unable to defend your own opinions, and still holding them with merit, is a pretty good definition of a fool  :laugh:

 

What greater purpose is that? Are you just making something up?

 

You don't understand what harassment is, even after you've read the legal and common definition. You don't understand what a cult is, even after you've read a "textbook" definition. Your sure handed stab in the dark missed.

 

By the way, I'm not vegan. I'm actually about to make a hamburger in a little bit to have with dinner. So, I'm not privy to their secret meetings on how to shame us disgusting and immoral flesh eaters into giving our lives to Veganism  :).

 

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1162314-vegan-sellout-list-outs-shames-vegan-traitors/?p=595795328

 

I will take a stab in the dark and assume that you don't understand the bigotry associated with your logic of using pejoratives to describe groups based upon generic behaviours.

 

Labeling groups with pejoratives based upon generic behaviors in the way you did is bigotry.

 

I am not a fan of bigotry, and do not need to belong to the group to be offended by ignorant, malicious, and bigoted views.

 

Catherine Wessinger (Loyola University New Orleans) has stated that the word "cult" represents just as much prejudice and antagonism as racial slurs or derogatory words for women and homosexuals.[48] She has argued that it is important for people to become aware of the bigotry conveyed by the word, drawing attention to the way it dehumanises the group's members and their children.[48] Labeling a group as subhuman, she says, becomes a justification for violence against it.[48]

 

At the same time, she adds, labeling a group a "cult" makes people feel safe, because the "violence associated with religion is split off from conventional religions, projected onto others, and imagined to involve only aberrant groups."[48] This fails to take into account that child abuse, sexual abuse, financial extortion and warfare have also been committed by believers of mainstream religions, but the pejorative "cult" stereotype makes it easier to avoid confronting this uncomfortable fact.[48]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

 

 

 

The joke is on me, and the joke is taking you seriously  :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.