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Connectivity Problems

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Hello,

 

I seem to be stumped with my connectivity problems.  Several months ago, my internet and network got so bad we replaced our routers.  It got so bad that even with gigabit ethernet, data transfer only went at a max of 1 MB per second (but typically it only went half that speed).  Since we switched routers, things have been much better internally.

 

However, externally there are still issues.  With our previous routers, whenever somebody would download something....anything that takes a while to download like more than 30 seconds, any website or any external network access was severly crippled.  It would take Neowin (for example) about 5 minutes before it would begin loading, then another minute to download the images.  It was really worse than dialup.

 

Okay, so we switched our routers.  Things seemed fine.  But the issues started happening again shortly after.  This is a different issue though.  Whenever somebody downloads a large file, SOMETIMES (not every time which is weird) I will get DNS issues.  When I try to visit a page, it will say DNS Lookup Failed (in Chrome, IE and Safari says it cannot connect).  Okay, so I then tried Open DNS and Google DNS.  Same issues.  I made sure everything was fine on the routers and just left it pointing to OpenDNS.

 

Now, when it does work, I get similar results as with the previous routers.  veeeeeerrrrrryyyyyyy slow internet.  But the weird thing is, if I start downloading from Steam or downloading a really big file, I get my 2.7 MB./s.  But visiting websites, images take forever to load?

 

This is just a weird situation that I cannot seem to resolve.  And it is not all the time so diagnosing is a bit of a problem.

 

Oh I did not mention the best part yet.  Sometimes, when sites DO load.  It will NOT load the CSS or Images.  That is really weird.  I have no idea why it is having issues.  Even on sites that have images / css on the same site.

 

It happens on every device that is connected.  iPhone, iPad, laptops, desktops, OSX, Windows 7, Windows 8, Xbox, Playstation, Smart TV trying to get to Netflix, you name it.

 

The only fix I have for when this happens, is to do a flush dns.  Then things work immediately after.  Does anybody have any ideas as to what might be going on?  I have had our ISP come out and look at it several times and they could not find anything.  Is there a way to not allow DNS to be cached in Windows and OS X (so I will not need to do the flush dns)?

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What are you using for dns - your router or an outside dns directly?

You can not stop dns from being cached - that is how it works.. Based on the TTL, if not cached locally, then it will be cached at your router, if not cached there (which I don't think you can turn off) other than not using it. Its cached at the forwarder your pointing too!

If you want to disable the local cache, then just turn off your dns client service

[attachment=337110:stoplocalcache.png]

It will turn back on after reboot - this is a good way to test your theory. Which I believe is flawed, you would not want to disable local caching ever!!

If you want it to remain off, set the service to disabled.

You clearly got something going on, could be dns related.. But disable local cache is not the correct answer.

I would like to see a sniff of your traffic when you have these issues, so we can tell what is going on. Grab wireshark and do some sniffing. Also what is your ISP bandwidth? Can you run a speedtest and see when your not having issues.

And again where are you pointing for dns, and what is your router set to for dns forwarding - is it your isp or something else like google or open?

BTW - notice the time to live on the left there on my displaydns output, that is how many seconds that record will be cached. The ttl is set by the owner of the record, and then counts down depending on how many dns servers you went through..

So lets say its 300 seconds.. Your isp does not have cache of this, some asks him for this record - the looks it up say from ROOTS!! so he caches it for 300 seconds, guy who asked will cache it for something less that that say 299, now if 150 seconds later someone asks isp for that record, he has it cached -- but the client that asked him will only get a ttl of 150 seconds, that he can cache it for..

This is repeated depending how machine caching recursive servers you go through..

owning NS -- isp dns -- router dns -- client

isp caches, router forwarder caches, etc..

If you believe dns is your issue - lets find out, or rule it out.. I love DNS troubleshooting!!!! So lets get some details and get started. Your going to have to use some real tools other than your browser to test dns.. I suggest you grab BIND from isc and only install the tools, so you have dig which is great for troubleshooting dns related problems.
 
C:\Windows\System32>dig

; <<>> DiG 9.9.3-P1 <<>>
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 36814
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 23

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;.                              IN      NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
.                       5898    IN      NS      k.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      h.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      f.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      m.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      i.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      e.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      j.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      l.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      g.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      c.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      b.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      d.root-servers.net.
.                       5898    IN      NS      a.root-servers.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
g.root-servers.net.     6462    IN      A       192.112.36.4
c.root-servers.net.     3328    IN      A       192.33.4.12
b.root-servers.net.     19271   IN      A       192.228.79.201
d.root-servers.net.     3178    IN      A       199.7.91.13
d.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:500:2d::d
a.root-servers.net.     2591    IN      A       198.41.0.4
a.root-servers.net.     12808   IN      AAAA    2001:503:ba3e::2:30
k.root-servers.net.     10080   IN      A       193.0.14.129
k.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:7fd::1
h.root-servers.net.     17793   IN      A       128.63.2.53
h.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:500:1::803f:235
f.root-servers.net.     8270    IN      A       192.5.5.241
f.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:500:2f::f
m.root-servers.net.     5039    IN      A       202.12.27.33
m.root-servers.net.     12808   IN      AAAA    2001:dc3::35
i.root-servers.net.     4472    IN      A       192.36.148.17
i.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:7fe::53
e.root-servers.net.     3930    IN      A       192.203.230.10
j.root-servers.net.     3087    IN      A       192.58.128.30
j.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:503:c27::2:30
l.root-servers.net.     3721    IN      A       199.7.83.42
l.root-servers.net.     12807   IN      AAAA    2001:500:3::42

;; Query time: 19 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.1.253#53(192.168.1.253)
;; WHEN: Tue Jul 02 08:14:19 Central Daylight Time 2013
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 699


C:\Windows\System32>
for starters lets see the above output from your machine once you install dig. http://www.isc.org/downloads/bind/

Also are these downloads p2p based or via http or ftp?

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How is my thinking flawed?  Anytime it happens, a flushdns fixes it immediately.  Chrome said the DNS could not be resolved.  Going to the actual Google page through IP works, but google.com does not.

 

Yes I have tried OpenDNS, Google DNS, and my ISP DNS.

 

Both FTP and HTTP downloads.

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Its flawed because killing a cache is not the answer, its possible your getting a negative response?? And then caching that - but for that to happen you should have to get a NX vs just a time out, etc.

So no P2P involved at all?

Its quite possible you have dns related problem, but killing the local cache would not be a correct fix - fixing the root of your issue is better course of action.

So lets start with some basics - I hear you have tried google and open, but from WHERE?? At your router or at your client? As I gave in diagram there is a multi dns path between your client and actual record..

owning NS -- roots -- possible other forwarder(s) --(isp or other public dns -- your router -- your client

Lets start with understanding what your using for dns, are you asking your router and then it forwards or is your client pointing directly at some ns outside your local network?

Are you using any suffix searches or host file entries? Is your box multihomed? Do you have say a wired connection along with wireless?

Understanding your setup is the first step in solving your issue. Because I can tell you for FACT, that disabled local caching of dns is NOT how your machine should be running.. It may well be dns related, but disabling of your machines local cache is the WRONG answer.. It may be a troubleshooting step in the process, but not a final solution.

Its possible your infected withsomething and its Filling your cache?? Lets take a look at the cache, so flush it.. and then display it, then go to say 1 site, google.com and then post up the cache again.

We need some REAL info to start the troubleshooting!

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Posted

On road - keep in mind ur browser has its own dns cache as well

Need details to move forward

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Actually it did happen when I downloaded Starcraft 2 with P2P enabled.

 

Did you see my first post?  How can I be infected with something if it still occurs with new routers and ANY device that is connected (iPad, iPhone, OS X, Windows, Smart TVs, ...)?  It must be the most advanced malware ever written if it can infect every device no matter what it is.  Both Wireless and Wired experience this issue.  I have changed the DNS on both the client level and the router level.  No difference.

 

I really do not think it is internal, I have got new hardware (routers, cables, modems, new computers, new devices) and even formatted several times since this issue began.  The only thing that has not changed is the pipe coming to my house.  But of course the ISP says that is not the issue....

 

Is there a way I can prove it is the pipe?  Like I said, it does not happen very often.  It only lasts about 10 minutes or so.  If I flush the DNS, it works immediately, but if I just wait 10 minutes (even if I am downloading a game from Steam that could take hours) everything is normal again.  It is a weird situation, and 10 minutes every other week or so is not enough time for diagnosing.

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The only way to prove it's the pipe is to unplug everything and directly connect a PC to your modem and test.

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The only way to prove it's the pipe is to unplug everything and directly connect a PC to your modem and test.

 

For how long?  It could take weeks before it appears again.  I guess I will just have to live with it.  If the ISP would hire people that knew what they were doing, it would make things easier.  I replaced every physical object, yet they still say it is internal.

 

I had one guy say our router was severly damaged because he could not access it through 192.168.1.1.  He said yep that is your problem, get a new router.  Uhh no, it is a D-Link router and the default was 192.168.0.1.

 

There is a lot I do not know about networking (which is the reason about this post), but when I know more than their technicians, that is pretty bad.

 

I find it odd though that a simple 1-second flushdns batch file fixes the issue.  Why does it all of the sudden break?  If I let it sit for 10 minutes I guess it will reset itself because it will work.  But if I click that bat file, it will work immediately.  

 

Thanks for the help guys. 

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" If I flush the DNS, it works immediately"

 

Well your only flushing local dns!  So how how could that fix every device or local issue be cause for your other devices?  As to being infected -- just throwing out things that could be issue, since don't have full understanding of your setup or even problem as of yet.

 

"ANY device that is connected (iPad, iPhone, OS X, Windows, Smart TVs, ...)?"

 

That points to either something on your router -- like I said need some details.. Of what is in your cache when you have the problem on your router, or if you can do queries during the problem at all.. Simple dig or nslookup while having the problem should give us these details.

 

And the how exactly your configured - you still have not stated what your device, or your other devices are using for dns -- I would guess your router, since this is a default dhcp server config for pretty much every single soho router I have ever seen.  They hand out their IP as dns, and then forward to what they got from dns.

 

If your saying it happens for 10 mins every now and then - and its not "worth" troubleshooting - I am at a loss to why you even posted?  Flushing your local dns cache or turning it off - is not going to fix your other devices ipad, tv's etc..  So how is that fix turning off your local cache?

 

So you need to find out what the root of the roblem is - or just live with it!  it takes 2 seconds to get some info to work with when the problem happens.

 

For starters what is the output of your ipconfig /all so can see where your client is pointing to for dns.  2nd if in fact pointing at your router - where is your router pointing?

 

So when the issue happens, look in your local cache for a site you can not get too - lets call it www.google.com, so pipe yout output to a file

 

ipconfig /displaydns >c:\pathyouwant\cache.txt

 

look in the file

    www.google.com
    ----------------------------------------
    Record Name . . . . . : www.google.com
    Record Type . . . . . : 1
    Time To Live  . . . . : 82
    Data Length . . . . . : 4
    Section . . . . . . . : Answer
    A (Host) Record . . . : 74.125.130.103


    Record Name . . . . . : www.google.com
    Record Type . . . . . : 1
    Time To Live  . . . . : 82
    Data Length . . . . . : 4
    Section . . . . . . . : Answer
    A (Host) Record . . . : 74.125.130.147


    Record Name . . . . . : www.google.com
    Record Type . . . . . : 1
    Time To Live  . . . . : 82
    Data Length . . . . . : 4
    Section . . . . . . . : Answer
    A (Host) Record . . . : 74.125.130.105

What does it show for your www.google.com?

 

Now do a query for it via nslookup or dig what do you get?

C:\Dropbox\tools\bin>dig www.google.com

; <<>> DiG 9.9.3 <<>> www.google.com
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 10568
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 6, AUTHORITY: 4, ADDITIONAL: 5

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.google.com.                        IN      A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.104
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.147
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.105
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.103
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.106
www.google.com.         288     IN      A       74.125.130.99

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
google.com.             170088  IN      NS      ns2.google.com.
google.com.             170088  IN      NS      ns1.google.com.
google.com.             170088  IN      NS      ns4.google.com.
google.com.             170088  IN      NS      ns3.google.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns1.google.com.         343718  IN      A       216.239.32.10
ns2.google.com.         343718  IN      A       216.239.34.10
ns3.google.com.         343718  IN      A       216.239.36.10
ns4.google.com.         343718  IN      A       216.239.38.10

;; Query time: 109 msec
;; SERVER: 69.25.1.1#53(69.25.1.1)
;; WHEN: Tue Jul 02 11:00:16 Central Daylight Time 2013
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 275

Notice I queried 69.25.1.1 in the above - which is an outside dns server "ns1.mia003.pnap.net"  I would suggest when you have the issue, try query to your router, try queries to a couple outside dns, try query direct to your ISP dns, etc.

 

I showed you how to disable your local cache, but that does not fix your other devices - nor does that fix your browser dns cache -- you will have to look to if possible on what browser your using.

 

Seeing what is in your cache for where your trying to go, and what your routers dns forwarder returns when you have the issue could point us in the right direction....  When it happens again please post this info!!

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Every computer that is on when this issue presents itself needs to either wait, or each computer needs the flushdns command.

After I tested some things, I left the computers pointing to the router for the DNS server. The router points to OpenDNS. It could be a router problem, but like I said I have all new hardware and the issue is still there. I even went FROM Linksys TO D-Link. Not that it really matters.

I will try to get more information when the issue occurs. Do you know how I can get all that information in OS X? Just in case if I am in OS X and it occurs there.

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Off the top not sure on how to look at cache in os x..  But you should be able to use nslookup or dig on os x to do real time queries.

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Well good news it happened today as I was downloading a podcast episode.  The bad news it, it recovered in about 5 minutes for websites.  However, I need to update my adobe applications (Creative Cloud) and it says I am not connected to the internet.  So it works on websites, but not  Adobe.  It could be their service is down, because Steam seems to work.

 

Google was not found in that dns text file I made (with the ipconfig /displaydns).  Is that the issue?  I was able to ping OpenDNS and GoogleDNS addresses just fine.  They took a while though:

 

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
C:\Windows\system32>ping 8.8.8.8
 
Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=510ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=511ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=503ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=510ms TTL=46
 
Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 503ms, Maximum = 511ms, Average = 508ms
 
C:\Windows\system32>ping 208.67.222.222
 
Pinging 208.67.222.222 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=300ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=301ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=303ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=306ms TTL=51
 
Ping statistics for 208.67.222.222:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 300ms, Maximum = 306ms, Average = 302ms
 
C:\Windows\system32>

 

Do Routers try to connect to the DNS server and if it takes a long time it cancels it?

 

Edit:  Nope, I did a flushdns and my Adobe Creative Cloud is now working.  Why was Steam working though?  I launched Steam after the issue occurred.  It seems like everything that is open when the issue occurs, loses access.  However, new programs can get online just fine.

 

EDIT2:  Wow, I guess it is being horrible today :(  I am downloading an update to Photoshop (getting the CC version), and when I visit YouTube, I get this:

 

[attachment=337248:yt-issue.png]

 

Okay, I opened Youtube in IE and it looked fine.  So I did a refresh in Chrome and now it is fine there too!  SO ANNOYING!!  And it makes diagnosing difficult when it works fine 10 seconds later!

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Dude

"Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=510ms TTL=46"

Where are you? 500 Ms is like around the planet.. It only takes 200ms to get to China from Chicago.

And again -- GRAB dig as I stated so you can some actual info.. vs just a ping..

You got something major wrong if your seeing 500ms to 8.8.8.8 or maybe your on the moon?

Can you post when your internet is working good your ping times, and traceroute
 
C:\Windows\System32>ping 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=47
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=47
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=47
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=47

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 23ms, Average = 22ms

C:\Windows\System32>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  pfsense.local.lan [192.168.1.253]
  2    26 ms    29 ms    29 ms  c-24-13-176-1.hsd1.il.comcast.net [24.13.176.1]
  3     9 ms     9 ms    10 ms  te-0-0-0-17-sur03.mtprospect.il.chicago.comcast.net [68.85.131.149]
  4    10 ms     9 ms    10 ms  te-0-7-0-3-sur04.mtprospect.il.chicago.comcast.net [68.87.229.126]
  5    13 ms    14 ms    15 ms  te-1-9-0-3-ar01.area4.il.chicago.comcast.net [68.86.187.197]
  6    13 ms    15 ms    15 ms  he-3-11-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.90.13]
  7    12 ms    12 ms    11 ms  he-0-10-0-1-pe04.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.83.54]
  8    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  66.208.228.202
  9    20 ms    12 ms    11 ms  209.85.254.120
 10    12 ms    13 ms    11 ms  72.14.237.108
 11    23 ms    23 ms    24 ms  209.85.241.22
 12    27 ms    25 ms    25 ms  216.239.43.217
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14    23 ms    22 ms    24 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
You see where its 22ms vs your 500!! Where are located? Are you on sat internet or something... Those are the worst ping times I have ever seen!

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Yeah I know!  Just wait, because there is one reply that is much worse in the second set of data :)  I just live in a neighborhood with Insight (now Time Warner Cable).  I get very fast speeds when it works (downloading from Steam is around 2.8 MB/s).

 

When nothing else is downloading:

 

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
C:\Windows\system32>ping 8.8.8.8
 
Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=46
 
Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 38ms, Maximum = 40ms, Average = 39ms
 
C:\Windows\system32>ping 8.8.8.8
 
Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=46
 
Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 39ms, Average = 38ms
 
C:\Windows\system32>tracert 8.8.8.8
 
Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  dlinkrouter.cinci.rr.com [192.168.0.1]
  2    38 ms    19 ms    19 ms  74-138-160-1.dhcp.insightbb.com [74.138.160.1]
  3     8 ms    11 ms     9 ms  74-128-23-181.dhcp.insightbb.com [74.128.23.181]
 
  4    17 ms    15 ms    16 ms  tge0-10-0-3.lsvmkyzo-ccr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.29.2
5.140]
  5    21 ms    23 ms    23 ms  network-065-189-140-162.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.140
.162]
  6    32 ms    27 ms    31 ms  ae-4-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.68]
  7    28 ms    31 ms    32 ms  ae-0-0.cr0.chi10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.20]
  8    27 ms    28 ms    28 ms  ae0.pr1.chi10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.192]
  9    83 ms    82 ms    77 ms  74.125.48.109
 10    27 ms    28 ms    28 ms  209.85.254.122
 11    30 ms    28 ms    28 ms  72.14.237.108
 12    38 ms    39 ms    39 ms  209.85.241.22
 13    39 ms    38 ms    37 ms  216.239.43.219
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15    40 ms    39 ms    40 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
 
Trace complete.
 
C:\Windows\system32>

 

When I am trying to download Crysis 3 from Origin (the ONLY thing downloading):

 

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
C:\Windows\system32>ping 8.8.8.8
 
Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=460ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=1020ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=742ms TTL=46
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=675ms TTL=46
 
Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 460ms, Maximum = 1020ms, Average = 724ms
 
C:\Windows\system32>tracert 8.8.8.8
 
Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  dlinkrouter.cinci.rr.com [192.168.0.1]
  2   480 ms   336 ms   238 ms  74-138-160-1.dhcp.insightbb.com [74.138.160.1]
  3   173 ms    71 ms    57 ms  74-128-23-181.dhcp.insightbb.com [74.128.23.181]
 
  4   578 ms   184 ms    23 ms  tge0-10-0-3.lsvmkyzo-ccr01.mwrtn.rr.com [65.29.2
5.140]
  5   253 ms    25 ms    23 ms  network-065-189-140-162.mwrtn.rr.com [65.189.140
.162]
  6   108 ms   222 ms   363 ms  ae-4-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.68]
  7   679 ms   226 ms   429 ms  ae-0-0.cr0.chi10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.20]
  8   511 ms    61 ms   150 ms  ae0.pr1.chi10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.192]
  9   907 ms   486 ms   517 ms  74.125.48.109
 10   451 ms   461 ms   425 ms  209.85.254.122
 11    71 ms   184 ms   303 ms  72.14.237.108
 12   717 ms   645 ms   619 ms  209.85.241.22
 13   878 ms   274 ms   191 ms  216.239.43.219
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15   407 ms   487 ms   734 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
 
Trace complete.
 
C:\Windows\system32>

 

See, here is Crysis 3.  It is downloading at a nice speed:

 

[attachment=337252:crysis3.png]

 

Edit:  dig results:

 

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]

(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
C:\Windows\system32>C:\Users\Nathan\Downloads\BIND9.8.5-P1\dig.exe
 
; <<>> DiG 9.8.5-P1 <<>>
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 37841
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
 
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;.                              IN      NS
 
;; ANSWER SECTION:
.                       421116  IN      NS      b.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      e.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      l.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      j.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      k.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      a.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      d.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      c.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      i.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      f.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      m.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      g.root-servers.net.
.                       421116  IN      NS      h.root-servers.net.
 
;; Query time: 243 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.0.1#53(192.168.0.1)
;; WHEN: Thu Jul 04 19:25:18 US Eastern Daylight Time 2013
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 228
 
 
C:\Windows\system32>

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Posted

Dude your in the middle of a download!!!! Thought you said it was after your download was "complete" that you had a problem??

If your using the FULL pipe, then yeah other stuff is not going to work - look at your latency!!

This is not dns related or hardware related, this is just your pipe is FULL!!

Limit your download ;) I max out my pipe at about 3.26MBps --- and yeah during that, internet can blow!!

How do you expect for other pages to load, or to even look up the IP via dns when your pipe is full? And quite likely if your download is maxed out, quite possible that your upload is as well.. So you can not even query for dns..

Here - same problem

[attachment=337316:pipefull.png]

Now I am able to function while my download is maxed, everything is a bit slow -- but then again I am not running a off the self soho router ;) But normally if I have to to download something while I am working I limit it to say 2MB or 2.5 to leave me room.

Where you can help with this is QoS -- but not if your using http to download. If all your downloads where ftp for example. Then you could set http/https and dns as high priority protocols, and ftp as lowest. Now when you needed to send a dns query, it would jump in line or when sending a http get it would jump in line, etc.

Download your BIG stuff when you don't want to use the net, or limit it with a downloader like downloadthemall or something to a smaller % of your pipe.

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It is not all the time though which is weird.  Like right now, I am still downloading games from both Origin (downloading Crysis 2 now) and Steam, watching on Netflix, and able to browse the net just fine.  Of course it is slow, but it is functional now. 

 

It is not like I am doing anything special.  There are people out there that can download ONE THING from Steam and STILL browse the internet.  Why do I need to download all these limiters or manually reduce my download limit and Joe Smith does not?  If I take a laptop to my friends house and DO THE SAME THING, it will still let me browse the internet just fine without any DNS could not resolve errors.

 

Also, why is it AFTER I wait 10 minutes, and the game or whatever large file is STILL downloading at MAX speed, that sites begin to work again?  After I posted my issue, I still left Crysis 3 downloading but I was able to browse the internet 10 minutes later.  Yes it was still at 2.5 MB/s and I was able to browse just fine after waiting 10 minutes.  And I am not an idiot, I know it will be slow.  but like I said, 80% of the time I can still browse the internet without getting those weird DNS errors or website errors (like that YouTube pic I showed).

 

And my max is the same as yours.  Around 3.5 so I am not maxed out on the 2.48 MB/s download.

 

I apologize, it is a very frustrating problem :(

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Most downloads do not SATURATE the pipe for extended periods.. When you saturate the pipe, and then try to look up something this is when you have dns issues. If you get a timeout looking for a record, its quite possible your dns client/forwarder will not ask again for a specific amount of time. If he got a timeout last time he checked because your pipes were full.

Here is the thing how much is your upload vs your download. When you download via tcp be it a large file, be it a image on a website there are acks sent back from the client that you got pieces of the tcp transmission, as you get these packets acks sent back saying got those, send more, etc. If your upload pipe gets full just sending acks, then its kind of hard to go and ask for say a dns query. So if you upload pipe is so small that it is full just sending acks when you download at high speed then sure you can have problems.

I would really look into setting up QoS so that you can setup dns to be of higher priority. And what router do you have? Its quite possible that its crap?? And it cannot handle number of users/bandwidth..

Also keep in mind normally with a http download your browser will limit the number of connections to the server and in a sense keep space open for other connections.. If your using something like downloadthemall or something to download it allows you to sat your pipe, but also can cause issues like your having because the pipe is full which you normally don't see if just using a browser to grab the file via http and using limited sessions.

Also are you wireless?? Wireless is CRAP when saturating the bandwidth available because its shared.. And very limited bandwidth, if your on G and you have over 20Mbps isp connection - even if just you, your wireless is not going to be able to maintain that sort of connection sustained -- max G is about 18 to 23mbps actual useable bandwidth while one connection is a wired, etc.

Here is the thing, if your PIPE is full, be it 10 seconds or 10 minutes - you can not expect to look up new dns, or grab other things off other sites if your pipe is full! When you stream say a video from youtube - it should NOT saturate your pipe..

Look

Here is me watching a video on youtube -- see the way my internet bandwidth is being used

[attachment=337336:notsat.png]

Now compare that use of bandwidth to when I saturate the pipe using downloadthemall and grabbing a LARGE file.. Notice how its almost a flat line at the MAX of my pipe..

[attachment=337338:sat.png]

When I try to do something when pipe is like that then yeah its going to be slow doing anything else, dns queries could quite easy fail or timeout, etc..

But as you can see while I am viewing youtube -- my ping times are normal, since I am not SATURATING my connection

[attachment=337340:youtubepingtimes.png]

So how are you downloading?? Over wireless? Are you using something other than a browser to download, have you tweaked your browser to use more sessions? Installed any other sort of tweak software to manipulate or speed up your connections?

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How come there are people that can download from Steam (and 80% of my case as well) and not experience any issues?  But every once and a while, for me it will cause the issues I am referring to.  Today everything is fine!

 

Gigabit Ethernet connection.

 

My new routers are D-Link Xtreme Gigabit Router (DIR-655) Wireless N300, USB SharePort, Gigabit.  My desktops are ethernet connected.  My laptop, iPad, iPhone, TV, and PS3 are not though.

 

One is the router, and the other is a switch/access point on the other end of the house.

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"Today everything is fine!"

Then your not saturating your pipe!

Its not magic or anything, if your pipe is FULL then **** is going to be slow or broken, period. If its not full, then good for you and and you won't have an issue.

Why do you think so many users have or had issues with p2p when first came out, because they would let the client fill up their upload pipe vs limiting it to say 60 to 85%.. Kind of hard to browse the internet even if your only using half your download pipe if your upload is full, and you can not do queries for dns, or even http gets to the server after you have looked up its IP, etc. This is why when using p2p you limit its upload to a % of your pipe and you can use it same time your doing other things.

And when you download from steam, is your pipe full? If so then the packets have to wait in line - there is no way around it, other then QoS to be able to manipulate the line ;)

Not a steam user, but I doubt its designed to saturate the pipe when downloading.. Your local cache file was pretty much empty - so for you to go anywhere that was not in that file, or your browser cache you would have to look up dns.

So do a test when your pipe is full try and do a dns query, to your router -- if it does not answer, maybe its BUSY moving your files that its dns forwarder blows.. You have to do the query via nslookup or dig so you can see what your router sends back.. Most clients will timeout in less than 2 seconds. So if longer than that your out of luck - so how busy is your router?

I can guarantee you that anyone!! That saturates their pipes is going to have issues, happens in enterprise networks just the same, pipe is saturated there is not much you can do but wait til its not saturated or limit what is causing be it with QoS or bandwidth limits, etc.

As I said I don't use steam -- but quick look, seems like you have ability to limit its download speed. Have you tried that?

http://lifehacker.com/steam-latest-beta-lets-you-limit-your-download-speed-479692897
Steam's Latest Beta Lets You Limit Your Download Speed

And that article was dated april 2013

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I do not think it is a pipe saturation thing.  Like I said, when I go to my friend's house, we can BOTH be downloading from various sources and STILL get the DNS names to resolve just fine.

 

Why doesn't every single person have this issue?  Nobody I know has this issue except me.  And I do not download as much as some of them do.

 

Last night I was using Chrome on my iPad.  It was at midnight.  No other computers or devices were on and I had nothing downloading on the iPad.  I still received the DNS error randomly and had to wait 10 minutes.

 

Plus, I have 30Mb/s internet.  2.48MB/s would not saturate the pipe (Steam can get up to 2.8 or even 3 MB/s).  And it is not just from steam that causes this issue.  If I download something from any website using any browser, if I am using FTP to manage my site's files, downloading on a console or anything that involves long transfer, this issue will occur.  And again, it is not all the time.  If it was a pipe saturation thing, why does it work fine when Steam is downloading at 3 MB/s sometimes?  MORE than my 2.48 MB/s issue I posted before.

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"Why doesn't every single person have this issue? "

Because as I showed you don't normally saturate your line!! I can download lots of things and it does not fill the pipe.. Look watching youtube video, downloading very fast 2.2MB linux distro and still pinging opendns with no latency!

[attachment=337926:looknotsaturated.png]

As you can see from graph on my router, my pipe is NOT full nor is my upload pipe full, etc. So everything works fine.. See the ping times to googledns.

If your seeing 500ms ping results - then your LINE is SATURATED!! Be it at your end or possible the isp or path to where your going, etc.. If you see high ping times, do a traceroute where to the the latency show up in the trace? Tcp/ip and your browser on its own should not saturate your pipe.. So your doing something or have tweaked something that is allowing it to do that.

Again why everyone does not have the problem is they are not saturating their pipe.. I assure you if the pipe is full everyone will have the same issues your seeing. High latency..

Don't forget your UPLOAD pipe!!! Your download might have room, but what about your upload.. And if you don't have to query for something - its in your cache then its quite possible you would not notice any problems with loading sites, etc..

" I still received the DNS error randomly and had to wait 10 minutes."

And did you do a simple query to check? Did you ping your dns server even? Its quite possible you have multiple issues going on - sometimes your saturating your pipe, other times maybe your dns just sucks..

I have gone over how to test your dns multiple times already - but you have yet to post one query...

You have to TEST what is not working when its not working - if you want to get to the root of your problem.

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What? You told me to get Bind and I posted the results. It looked the same as yours. I also created that DNS file you mentioned. Also, i posted Ping and Tracert. So I have not posted one query? Really?

I cannot test from my iPad. By the time I get any computer turned on the issue would be resolved anyway.

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"What? You told me to get Bind and I posted the results"

Not really

;; Query time: 243 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.0.1#53(192.168.0.1)

This told me your asking your local box 192.168.0.1 for dns - but you did not ask it anything specific, and it took 243ms to get a response for the root servers which points to a really BAD connection, or a saturated line.

; <<>> DiG 9.9.2-P1 <<>>
<snipped>

;; Query time: 24 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.1.253#53(192.168.1.253)
;; WHEN: Thu Jul 11 12:36:04 2013
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 699

So for me to do the same query for the roots.. It took 24 ms.. Yours was 10 times that.. What is normal when your not having issues.. When your having an issue you need to query for the site your having an issue with, for example www.neowin.net

dig www.neowin.net

Do you get a response, what is it - was it cached or authoritative? And the +trace tag on it if having issues so can see what is happening. Where there might be a problem.

I don't have my ipad handy but you can do a dns query from it with the right app installed - when I get home I will take a look at the app I use for such things.

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So that took 243 msec to even get to the router?  Do I have a bad ethernet cable somewhere?

 

I will try Bind with the site name when the issue happens.  I only get a limited window, should I try anything else when it happens?  Bind and the google DNS IP or something?

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no it took 243ms to do the query.. Your router is just a forwarder, you didn't ask it anything specific so it defaulted to looking up the root servers IP address from root hint.

see the . as a question, then your answer

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;. IN NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
. 93818 IN NS e.root-servers.net.
. 93818 IN NS i.root-servers.net.
. 93818 IN NS m.root-servers.net.
. 93818 IN NS l.root-servers.net.
<snipped>

When you have an issue, change your server to where you doing your query..

like

budman@ubuntu:~$ dig @8.8.8.8 www.neowin.net

; <<>> DiG 9.9.2-P1 <<>> @8.8.8.8 www.neowin.net
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 14975
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 4, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.neowin.net. IN A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.neowin.net. 21386 IN CNAME neowin.net.
neowin.net. 86 IN A 74.204.71.245
neowin.net. 86 IN A 74.204.71.246
neowin.net. 86 IN A 74.204.71.247

;; Query time: 29 msec
;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8)
;; WHEN: Thu Jul 11 12:54:25 2013
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 105

if you have an issue talking to 8.8.8.8 directly is most likely your line or connection, if that works great buy your router takes for ever or does not answer - where is your router asking, your isp? Do a query to that IP directly.. If that works and your router still does not answer or takes a long time - something not right with the routers dns forwarder, etc.

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Well just an update, it has not happened in two weeks.  I even tried to break it one day (all computers and devices downloading/streaming various things at the same time to congest the line).  No problems....Weird.

 

Now that I post this, it will happen though :D

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