Microsoft Xbox One - "The truth about DRM"

[BajiRav]

Do people really think that family sharing is going to be unrestricted?

 

Do you guys know what would happen if this feature is what you want it to be?  No more single player.  Or single player that only takes one hour to beat.  Or single player that get 5% of the usual budget.  Thanks.  I do not care one bit about multi-player gaming.  So if companies lose out of more sales because of this family sharing feature, you bet they will not focus on single player.

 

I am not a cheapo, but hell yes if I can go 50/50 with a friend (or divide it with several friends) and play single player at the same time (or scheduling if multiple friends participated).  Well they would lose out of $60 because I would have purchased it myself if that feature did not exist.

Family sharing wasn't fully detailed (I think even MS didn't know what it was) but what you posted about 1hr limit is a load of bullcrap. That is based on a rumor and that rumor said family sharing was just demos. That doesn't make any sense at all (even if we ignore all MS execs saying that it wasn't demos).

 

 

Just an update on the DRM restrictions, Sony have recently announced that the PS4 will be able to play your games without disc on any console.

 

 

 

One of the major complaints about the DRM backflip was you have to now change out discs to play different games if you wanted a physical copy in your bookshelf, PS4 has managed to fix this without restrictive DRM policies.

 

Another was sharing games with a family member who is overseas or interstate.. They can now login to your account on their PS4's and play your games.

 

I think this is very smart business wise cause now hotels, motels, holiday destinations will possibly purchase PS4's for their hotel patrons who can play their games from anywhere in the world.

I have seen many posts about people saying when your on a work trip your not going to play a console, these people obviously have never worked for a company which requires them to travel.

 

You dont always go to great holiday destinations with awesome weather where you want to be outside 24/7, You can't always spends hundreds or even thousands of dollars to visit local places of interest and enjoy the destination.

Sometimes you just want to relax and play a game.. There are many reasons, its why hotels have cable tv.

 

But if you travel a lot your not likely to pack a console into your baggage, but with this option it made the PS4 much more customer friendly for those who travel and have access to internet at the locations they travel.

 

All the huffing and puffing from people about the DRM and PS4 already had something just as good without the DRM restrictions.. Feel free to try explain how awesome it was going to be now, :)

 

The PS4 sharing isn't new. You can do it today on Xbox 360 (and PS3 but I am not a PS3 user to know for sure) and you will be able to do it on Xbox One. It is only applicable to digital downloads.

[vcfan]

It really isn't it's an evolution of the PS3 way of sharing, on PS3 as long as the account exists on the console it is authorised to play content from that account.

 

With PS4 you can set a "home" PS4 and you can authorise other machines to play the content.

 

its the same exact thing you can already do on ps3 and xbox360. you have to log in on the other console,and then you can access and download the games. its comical how some people like that moron in that video have no clue what xbox one family sharing really was.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I think it's comical how some "morons" think Microsoft was going to allow people to share the latest blockbusters with 10 people and one person at a time could play it to completion without having paid $50-60.

 

The whole point of their "DRM" was to try to stop people lending, renting and buying used games. Something which the Family Sharing was conflicting with.

[vcfan]

I think it's comical how some "morons" think Microsoft was going to allow people to share the latest blockbusters with 10 people and one person at a time could play it to completion without having paid $50-60.

 

The whole point of their "DRM" was to try to stop people lending, renting and buying used games. Something which the Family Sharing was conflicting with.

 

think? what is there to think? it was detailed exactly like that on the xbox.com website,and confirmed multiple times by Microsoft executives.

 

And how can the whole point of DRM be any of those things you listed,when you could have still lent games (family sharing), sell used games, buy used games(and maybe renting was coming sometime after launch)?

 

this is exactly why so much BS was spread around,because people like you decided to close their eyes and ears,and speak about things they have absolutely no idea about how they work.

 

 

• Buy the way you want?disc or digital?on the same day: You?ll be able to buy disc-based games at traditional retailers or online through Xbox Live, on day of release. Discs will continue to be a great way to install your games quickly.
• Access your entire games library from any Xbox One?no discs required: After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud. So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend?s house, you can play your games.
• Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console?regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.
• Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend?s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
• Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
• Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

[BajiRav]

I think it's comical how some "morons" think Microsoft was going to allow people to share the latest blockbusters with 10 people and one person at a time could play it to completion without having paid $50-60.

 

The whole point of their "DRM" was to try to stop people lending, renting and buying used games. Something which the Family Sharing was conflicting with.

I think it's comical how some people think Sony was going to give free games to people without having paid $50-60...oh wait.

 

It was obvious it was going to be Xbox Live Gold feature. There was a cost involved.

[JonnyLH]

 

Just an update on the DRM restrictions, Sony have recently announced that the PS4 will be able to play your games without disc on any console.

 

 

 

One of the major complaints about the DRM backflip was you have to now change out discs to play different games if you wanted a physical copy in your bookshelf, PS4 has managed to fix this without restrictive DRM policies.

 

Another was sharing games with a family member who is overseas or interstate.. They can now login to your account on their PS4's and play your games.

 

I think this is very smart business wise cause now hotels, motels, holiday destinations will possibly purchase PS4's for their hotel patrons who can play their games from anywhere in the world.

I have seen many posts about people saying when your on a work trip your not going to play a console, these people obviously have never worked for a company which requires them to travel.

 

You dont always go to great holiday destinations with awesome weather where you want to be outside 24/7, You can't always spends hundreds or even thousands of dollars to visit local places of interest and enjoy the destination.

Sometimes you just want to relax and play a game.. There are many reasons, its why hotels have cable tv.

 

But if you travel a lot your not likely to pack a console into your baggage, but with this option it made the PS4 much more customer friendly for those who travel and have access to internet at the locations they travel.

 

All the huffing and puffing from people about the DRM and PS4 already had something just as good without the DRM restrictions.. Feel free to try explain how awesome it was going to be now, :)

 

You Sony fanboys, believing the very stupid and cloudy things which Sony make public.

 

We can do that on the current generation with the 360. I can play any game I've bought online anywhere and have been able to since 2005.

 

Let me guess, you believe Sony can do cloud computing because they said so?

[GotBored]

Let me guess, you believe Sony can do cloud computing because they said so?

 

Yes, also because games which run in the 'cloud' are on the PS4 like Destiny for example.

[JonnyLH]

Yes, also because games which run in the 'cloud' are on the PS4 like Destiny for example.

Okay I'll rephrase, do you believe the PS4 can use server-farming to en-power its games like the X1?

[illage3]

They can still do the family sharing.  Easy solution.

 

Add a code to disc based games that unlocks a digital version of that game that can be used for family sharing.   Say if the code was already used when you trade your games in. Allow people to purchase another code to unlock the digital version of that game.

 

This way, people can still trade games, and people still get their family share publishers get their cut, everyone wins at the end of the day.

 

It might still ###### people off, but at the end of the day its less intrusive DRM than what Microsoft were proposing.

 

Think of this like DVD's.  Some DVD's come with a code to download a digital version of the film so you can use it on other devices.  I can't see why the same principle couldn't be added to games.

[JonnyLH]

They can still do the family sharing.  Easy solution.

 

Add a code to disc based games that unlocks a digital version of that game that can be used for family sharing.   Say if the code was already used when you trade your games in. Allow people to purchase another code to unlock the digital version of that game.

 

This way, people can still trade games, and people still get their family share publishers get their cut, everyone wins at the end of the day.

 

It might still **** people off, but at the end of the day its less intrusive DRM than what Microsoft were proposing.

 

Think of this like DVD's.  Some DVD's come with a code to download a digital version of the film so you can use it on other devices.  I can't see why the same principle couldn't be added to games.

The only problem is, it doesn't still support family sharing.

 

Say, I play one of your games and disconnect from XBL and still keep playing that game there's no way to check I'm allowed to be playing that game.

[duddit2]

Just to address to folks saying the family sharing HAD to have restrictions because it would let other complete a single player game without paying for it. YOU CAN DO THIS NOW BY SHARING THE DISK TO THEM!

 

MS and content companies are well aware that single player games are lent out to friends, that no everyone plays them, that the real money is in online due to the very nature of how this works (if you lend it out, you cant play it).

 

Single player games would seen no more and no less sharing going on, or maybe a tiny bit more due to the ease (but it would also then be restricted to ten, not as it is now that you can keep lending the disk out and eventually everyone you know could have completed the single player game).

 

With the family sharing these companies would have stats, which they love.

[GotBored]

Okay I'll rephrase, do you believe the PS4 can use server-farming to en-power its games like the X1?

 

I doubt you know what your talking about let alone anyone else.

 

Only thing Xbox has confirmed about the 'cloud' is that it will be used like a MMO dedicated server.

[JonnyLH]

I doubt you know what your talking about let alone anyone else.

 

Only thing Xbox has confirmed about the 'cloud' is that it will be used like a MMO dedicated server.

I've worked 3 of the top UK ISP's and know an awful lot about infrastructure, since I was an Infrastructure Engineer for 2 of the 3 jobs. I have CCNA, CCNP, JCNA and a bachelors of science in networks. I've been coding in web technologies since I was 13 and currently have an open-source PHP client management software suite for free-webhosts at thehostingtool.com. I made that 5 years ago. I've also used HTML5 and canvas to create physics enabled games with 3d graphical elements. One ISP also is sponsoring my masters due to professional development.

 

So I ask again.

 

There has been a lot confirmed about the cloud. I actually posted an article from the Watchdogs developers stating how the cloud can help power that game to make it more dynamic than the PS4 version.

Also just to let you know, the correct definition of "cloud" in an infrastructure sense is that you don't actually know whats inside it. For example, I could state logging onto to XBL/PSN on the current generation of consoles is cloud computing.

[GotBored]

I've worked 3 of the top UK ISP's and know an awful lot about infrastructure, since I was an Infrastructure Engineer for 2 of the 3 jobs. I have CCNA, CCNP, JCNA and a bachelors of science in networks. I've been coding in web technologies since I was 13 and currently have an open-source PHP client management software suite for free-webhosts at thehostingtool.com. I made that 5 years ago. I've also used HTML5 and canvas to create physics enabled games with 3d graphical elements. One ISP also is sponsoring my masters due to professional development.

 

So I ask again.

 

There has been a lot confirmed about the cloud. I actually posted an article from the Watchdogs developers stating how the cloud can help power that game to make it more dynamic than the PS4 version.

Also just to let you know, the correct definition of "cloud" in an infrastructure sense is that you don't actually know whats inside it. For example, I could state logging onto to XBL/PSN on the current generation of consoles is cloud computing.

 

HTML5/Flash games are tiny and pre-load, its quite different to rendering a game via a dedicated server/cloud.

 

I've read the Watch Dogs interviews, even the Titan Fall ones.. neither use the 'cloud' in a manner which isn't already used today in games like World of Warcraft or like the multiplatform game destiny.

Even that racing game which mimics your gameplay while your offline 'ghosting' its not a new thing and has been on many games, even ios games have it.

[JustGeorge]

Good article. <Snipped>

 

Here is my solution:

 

MS starts an "opt-in" program that is their original vision. Once you opt-in, there is no opt-out. They'll get all the info thay need based on the number of people who accept the program. If the majorty speaks, then make it the only option going forward.

[xWhiplash]

Family sharing wasn't fully detailed (I think even MS didn't know what it was) but what you posted about 1hr limit is a load of bullcrap. That is based on a rumor and that rumor said family sharing was just demos. That doesn't make any sense at all (even if we ignore all MS execs saying that it wasn't demos).

 

The PS4 sharing isn't new. You can do it today on Xbox 360 (and PS3 but I am not a PS3 user to know for sure) and you will be able to do it on Xbox One. It is only applicable to digital downloads.

 

Um I believed you massively misunderstood me.

 

I was saying, if sales were divided by 10 IN SOME CASES (not everybody will use it), you realize companies will no longer be focusing on single player right?

 

Nowhere did I say that family sharing would limit to one hour of gameplay.  I am saying that developers would not focus on single player anymore if that feature is what everybody wanted it to be.

[BajiRav]

I've read the Watch Dogs interviews, even the Titan Fall ones.. neither use the 'cloud' in a manner which isn't already used today in games like World of Warcraft or like the multiplatform game destiny.

Even that racing game which mimics your gameplay while your offline 'ghosting' its not a new thing and has been on many games, even ios games have it.

So now we have gone from

 

"cloud is useless for gaming" and "drivatars are just gimmicks why would I want to race against my friend's crappy driving"

 

to

 

"sony can easily built its own cloud"

 

to

 

"this is nothing new and has existed for long"?

 

so what's next? Xbox One is nothing new - it just has a stupid AMD processor with a weak GPU?

[xWhiplash]

Just to address to folks saying the family sharing HAD to have restrictions because it would let other complete a single player game without paying for it. YOU CAN DO THIS NOW BY SHARING THE DISK TO THEM!

 

MS and content companies are well aware that single player games are lent out to friends, that no everyone plays them, that the real money is in online due to the very nature of how this works (if you lend it out, you cant play it).

 

Single player games would seen no more and no less sharing going on, or maybe a tiny bit more due to the ease (but it would also then be restricted to ten, not as it is now that you can keep lending the disk out and eventually everyone you know could have completed the single player game).

 

With the family sharing these companies would have stats, which they love.

 

Um, except the fact that you can digitally share with 10 other people across the world.  Would you really ship your disc to a family member across the seas?  I doubt it.  With this, all they need to do is download the game. AND YOU BOTH WILL HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

[JonnyLH]

HTML5/Flash games are tiny and pre-load, its quite different to rendering a game via a dedicated server/cloud.

 

I've read the Watch Dogs interviews, even the Titan Fall ones.. neither use the 'cloud' in a manner which isn't already used today in games like World of Warcraft or like the multiplatform game destiny.

Even that racing game which mimics your gameplay while your offline 'ghosting' its not a new thing and has been on many games, even ios games have it.

I'd like to have an intellectual conversion about this, but statements like that really give me no faith regarding your knowledge on the subject. Take a look at WebGL, like many libraries out there to enpower games on the web.

Tiny is an understatement, HTML/JS games can be and are just as complex as some of the more lower level coded games. Even UE3 is ported to work on the web due to libraries like WebGL. 

 

So mapping the sea in 3d on the cloud, offloading tree physics and giving more intelligence to the AI is used today? That was an example given by a Watch Dog developer stating why the X1 can help them achieve more.

[BajiRav]

Um I believed you massively misunderstood me.

 

I was saying, if sales were divided by 10 IN SOME CASES (not everybody will use it), you realize companies will no longer be focusing on single player right?

 

Nowhere did I say that family sharing would limit to one hour of gameplay.  I am saying that developers would not focus on single player anymore if that feature is what everybody wanted it to be.

Oh ok. :) Well who knows - if the same game was being made for PS4 and XboxOne (stupid name :S) then why would the Xbox One version will be gimped? They don't gimp PS3 versions today because Sony gives them away with PS+.

[duddit2]

Lets not forget the used game market under such a scheme would create additional revenue for studios, hence the willingness to allow family sharing. I was quoted above with the reply being that long distance sharing is the main new difference, i ask you though how much will this be an issue in terms of big numbers, my guess is not very much.

[xWhiplash]

Oh ok. :) Well who knows - if the same game was being made for PS4 and XboxOne (stupid name :s) then why would the Xbox One version will be gimped? They don't gimp PS3 versions today because Sony gives them away with PS+.

 

Maybe we will have to DLC to get more from the single player?  Maybe we will just lose the focus on single player even for the PS4 and they will just add more focus on Multi-Player (which I do not care one bit about).

 

They really should have provided more details about this.  Because if it is what people are DREAMING it will be, game companies would have a fit.

 

I fail to see how Microsoft would get away with making this how the community wants it to be.  I think it will be severely restricted.  Like how easy will it be to add people to your 10 member sharing list?  Are friends allowed?  Will it be for Gold subscribers only, or will it require an additional fee?  Will it bother you wanting you to buy it throughout the game?

 

Not to mention the developer's reactions, but the cost of the bandwidth would probably be tough on Microsoft.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Maybe we will have to DLC to get more from the single player?  Maybe we will just lose the focus on single player even for the PS4 and they will just add more focus on Multi-Player (which I do not care one bit about).

 

They really should have provided more details about this.  Because if it is what people are DREAMING it will be, game companies would have a fit.

 

I fail to see how Microsoft would get away with making this how the community wants it to be.  I think it will be severely restricted.  Like how easy will it be to add people to your 10 member sharing list?  Are friends allowed?  Will it be for Gold subscribers only, or will it require an additional fee?  Will it bother you wanting you to buy it throughout the game?

 

Not to mention the developer's reactions, but the cost of the bandwidth would probably be tough on Microsoft.

You're naive if you think MS hadn't already thrashed out all the red tape before announcing this. This was an innovation partly led by the publishers themselves.

[JonnyLH]

You're naive if you think MS hadn't already thrashed out all the red tape before announcing this. This was an innovation partly led by the publishers themselves.

Yeah I love how the general population love to think that the people who run these teams and develop the features aren't actually gamers themselves and just nasty people trying to take their money.

 

I can imagine how heated the discussions will of been in-house about family-sharing and the online model.

[spacer]

You're naive if you think MS hadn't already thrashed out all the red tape before announcing this. This was an innovation partly led by the publishers themselves.

Just like they sorted out and planned all of their official statements regarding anything Xbox One related before the May reveal or E3?  :rolleyes:

 

Didn't almost every Microsoft spokesperson (including Major N) use phrases like "we're still ironing out the details" or "it's still not fully baked" when they were talking about various features of the Xbox One? Or the phrase that trumps all questions but still gives them time to discuss/change/implement features; "we're not talking about that yet. We'll release details in the future as we get closer to launch."