PS4 Architect Mark Cerny: Cloud won't work well to boost graphics

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

 

 

 

Nice honest interview  (Y)

[spudtrooper]

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

 

Cerny, a fan of computer programming and arcade games, started in the game industry at the age of 17 when he joined Atari in 1982. In those earlier days of professional game development, teams were small and each member was responsible for a wider range of roles than today.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cerny

 

Yeah this guy wouldn't be able to figure it out. Did you even watch the video? You replied awfully quickly.

[HawkMan]

Why, none of his career has any relevance to that, and it's no like he's biased or anything.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Why, none of his career has any relevance to that, and it's no like he's biased or anything.

 

Only on Neowin?

 

I'm sure you know more about hardware, software development and the games industry.

[RatherLargeBear]

Great. More flamebait to fuel the fire.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Great. More flamebait to fuel the fire.

 

Considering flamebait/FUD/trolling on Neowin seems to be anything that is critical of the Xbox One, sure.

[watkinsx2]

I suspect he's probably downplaying it as a) The PS4 hasn't gone full tilt at the cloud thing the same way XB1 has and b) Its difficult to tell at this point just how much the cloud can do and I suspect there is a tiny bit of corporate flame baiting in there too. I guess if the cloud thing takes off there is no reason the PS4 couldn't add this on later (at the massive cost of installing the back end infrastructure).

[RatherLargeBear]

Considering flamebait/FUD/trolling on Neowin seems to be anything that is critical of the Xbox One, sure.

 

But that is how you have decided to post this piece. As flamebait.

You could have chosen a different topic title about the the whole interview, instead you took one single line from it and turned it into this.

 

These 'console wars' are ridiculous. We are all gamers and there will be great games on both consoles and true gamers should rejoice from whichever side of the fence they're on.

[+virtorio MVC]

Of course it's won't.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

But that is how you have decided to post this piece. As flamebait.

You could have chosen a different topic title about the the whole interview, instead you took one single line from it and turned it into this.

 

These 'console wars' are ridiculous. We are all gamers and there will be great games on both consoles and true gamers should rejoice from whichever side of the fence they're on.

 

Cloud computing is one of the largest buzz words to come about from this generation, you'd best get used to discussing it especially when some of the claims about it are hardly small claims.

 

Neowin has pretty much turned into a forum of you better not post anything that contradicts my companies statements or it's flamebait. 

[compl3x]

Cloud is untested. Of course he has a bias, but you can't dismiss his opinion out of hand. He is experienced and his opinions are, at the very least, worth listening to. If he is proven wrong, the internet won't let him forget it.

[RatherLargeBear]

Cloud computing is one of the largest buzz words to come about from this generation, you'd best get used to discussing it especially when some of the claims about it are hardly small claims.

 

Neowin has pretty much turned into a forum of you better not post anything that contradicts my companies statements or it's flamebait. 

 

Yes I agree that it is one of the largest buzz words this generation, but to say it won't work when we all (including Cerny) don't know what Microsoft are doing with it is just silly. 

[ahhell]

Cloud computing is one of the largest buzz words to come about from this generation, you'd best get used to discussing it especially when some of the claims about it are hardly small claims.

 

Neowin has pretty much turned into a forum of you better not post anything that contradicts my companies statements or it's flamebait. 

 

There's a big difference between posting "contradicting" articles and posting blatantly biased/slanted posts.  Guess which you do over and over.  You just can't seem to stop yourself from taking potshots at anything outside of HOLY SONY.

 

Cerny may have an extensive background in the industry but he's not exactly unbiased. 

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

There's a big difference between posting "contradicting" articles and posting blatantly biased/slanted posts.  Guess which you do over and over.  You just can't seem to stop yourself from taking potshots at anything outside of HOLY SONY.

 

Cerny may have an extensive background in the industry but he's not exactly unbiased. 

 

Yeah that being whether or not you guys can distinguish the difference. As I've said ANYTHING posted in a critique of MS is immediately biased/slanted/flamebait/trolling or as HawkMan would put it, FUD.

 

It's almost a social experiment now on Neowin to see if you can post anything at all in a critical light of the Xbox or MS and see if it can be discussed with whatever evidence or opinion that it's displaying. It doesn't seem to matter if it's coming from votes in polls, industry veterans, direct competition, established development studios, blogger opinion, or plain old forum user opinion, it's all automatically something in part of one of those categories above.

[-T- Member]

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

I don't think anyone has ever claimed could would be used to boost graphics fidelity, simply offloading non real time things possibly.

[compl3x]

There's a big difference between posting "contradicting" articles and posting blatantly biased/slanted posts.  Guess which you do over and over.  You just can't seem to stop yourself from taking potshots at anything outside of HOLY SONY.

 

Cerny may have an extensive background in the industry but he's not exactly unbiased. 

 

 

Who cares if he is biased or posts pro-Sony news? He isn't a journalist. He doesn't have to balance out everything he posts. People whining about "unbalanced/bias/fanboy-ish" articles are far more annoying than anything he's posted.

 

 

Frankly, jumping on people as soon as they go to the trouble of posting news is just going to drive people away from this site. If you want to contradict them, fine, but no one here has done that. I doubt many people even bothered to watch the videos. Read headline; react unreasonably. Rinse and repeat.

[JonnyLH]

Cerny's playing dumb.

 

He refers to cloud computing in the same context as match making and not in the context its used in services like Azure. Off-loading calculations to the cloud to free up some local resources can boost graphics. With how much it can in the real-world, that's what we're all yet to find out. Graphics fidelity isn't its primary function, its simply a a benefit which comes with it. Its there to improve the dynamics of gameplay and to create other use cases and ideas.

 

Fact of the matter is, the real IT definition for "Cloud" is "I don't have a ****ing clue whats in there."

[torrentthief]

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

No, there are very few things that it can be used for due to the latency so it is basically worthless in most instances.

 

 

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

Sony has already said they will support cloud gaming actually.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

I don't think anyone has ever claimed could would be used to boost graphics fidelity, simply offloading non real time things possibly.

 

"One example of that might be lighting," [General Manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms Matt Booty] continued. "Let?s say you?re looking at a forest scene and you need to calculate the light coming through the trees, or you?re going through a battlefield and have very dense volumetric fog that?s hugging the terrain. Those things often involve some complicated up-front calculations when you enter that world, but they don?t necessarily have to be updated every frame. Those are perfect candidates for the console to offload that to the cloud?the cloud can do the heavy lifting, because you?ve got the ability to throw multiple devices at the problem in the cloud."

 

Booty added that things like physics modeling, fluid dynamics, and cloth motion were all prime examples of effects that require a lot of up-front computation that could be handled in the cloud without adding any lag to the actual gameplay. And the server resources Microsoft is putting toward these calculations will be much greater than a local Xbox One could handle on its own. "A rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we?ll have three of those devices in the cloud available," he said.

 

While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. ?Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."

 

Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what?s going to come back.?

 

 

Source: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-processing-power-from-cloud-computing/

[The Teej]

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

 

That's not what he said at all. He said it wouldn't work WELL, not that it can't be done. Of course they could figure it out - he even states they use cloud computing already. 

 

However, cloud computing would be more beneficial to AI in Sandboxes - AI that isn't directly visible or at the forefront of the screen, and doesn't need to updated every 60 times a second, but could be updated say ten times a second or even once a second, where the cloud can compute the large open world so the local processors can deal with things such as the graphics, and so on.

[coresx]

Neowin has pretty much turned into a forum of you better not post anything that contradicts my companies statements or it's flamebait. 

 

I've noticed that change over the years. Sure it isn't the whole site but reading Neowin isn't a good experience now. You can pretty much guarantee the replies and users in topics rather than good honest discussion.

 

As for the topic at hand, the cloud has yet to prove itself in adding anything to gaming other than dedicated servers for player numbers, storing, syncing etc. which has been around for a long time. As with everything I'll believe it when I see it and Microsoft haven't been very forthcoming with Xbox One. Lets wait and see.

[ahhell]

"

While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. ?Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."

 

Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what?s going to come back.?"

 

How exactly is that a bad thing?  :s

[JonnyLH]

 

 

 

Source: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-processing-power-from-cloud-computing/

 

Dude, you make a thread obviously invigorating that Mark Cerny states he doesn't feel the cloud will work that well. (Even though there's over 12 minutes of interview and that was all that was said)

 

Then you post a quote confirming the benefits of what the cloud allows regarding graphical fidelity? Eh?

[RatherLargeBear]

I've noticed that change over the years. Sure it isn't the whole site but reading Neowin now isn't a good experience now. You can pretty much guarantee the replies and users in topics rather than good honest discussion.

 

As for the topic at hand, the cloud has yet to prove itself in adding anything to gaming other than dedicated servers for player numbers, storing, syncing etc. which has been around for a long time. As with everything I'll believe it when I see it and Microsoft haven't been very forthcoming with Xbox One. Lets wait and see.

 

Yes. This 1 million times