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PS4 Architect Mark Cerny: Cloud won't work well to boost graphics


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#16 -T-

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:52

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

I don't think anyone has ever claimed could would be used to boost graphics fidelity, simply offloading non real time things possibly.


#17 compl3x

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:54

There's a big difference between posting "contradicting" articles and posting blatantly biased/slanted posts.  Guess which you do over and over.  You just can't seem to stop yourself from taking potshots at anything outside of HOLY SONY.

 

Cerny may have an extensive background in the industry but he's not exactly unbiased. 

 

 

Who cares if he is biased or posts pro-Sony news? He isn't a journalist. He doesn't have to balance out everything he posts. People whining about "unbalanced/bias/fanboy-ish" articles are far more annoying than anything he's posted.

 

 

Frankly, jumping on people as soon as they go to the trouble of posting news is just going to drive people away from this site. If you want to contradict them, fine, but no one here has done that. I doubt many people even bothered to watch the videos. Read headline; react unreasonably. Rinse and repeat.



#18 JonnyLH

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:54

Cerny's playing dumb.

 

He refers to cloud computing in the same context as match making and not in the context its used in services like Azure. Off-loading calculations to the cloud to free up some local resources can boost graphics. With how much it can in the real-world, that's what we're all yet to find out. Graphics fidelity isn't its primary function, its simply a a benefit which comes with it. Its there to improve the dynamics of gameplay and to create other use cases and ideas.

 

Fact of the matter is, the real IT definition for "Cloud" is "I don't have a ****ing clue whats in there."



#19 torrentthief

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:55

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

No, there are very few things that it can be used for due to the latency so it is basically worthless in most instances.

 

 

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

Sony has already said they will support cloud gaming actually.



#20 OP Audioboxer

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:57

A better headline would be PS4 Architect in "Thing we don't have, sucks" shocker!!!

I don't think anyone has ever claimed could would be used to boost graphics fidelity, simply offloading non real time things possibly.

 

"One example of that might be lighting," [General Manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms Matt Booty] continued. "Let’s say you’re looking at a forest scene and you need to calculate the light coming through the trees, or you’re going through a battlefield and have very dense volumetric fog that’s hugging the terrain. Those things often involve some complicated up-front calculations when you enter that world, but they don’t necessarily have to be updated every frame. Those are perfect candidates for the console to offload that to the cloud—the cloud can do the heavy lifting, because you’ve got the ability to throw multiple devices at the problem in the cloud."
 
Booty added that things like physics modeling, fluid dynamics, and cloth motion were all prime examples of effects that require a lot of up-front computation that could be handled in the cloud without adding any lag to the actual gameplay. And the server resources Microsoft is putting toward these calculations will be much greater than a local Xbox One could handle on its own. "A rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we’ll have three of those devices in the cloud available," he said.
 
While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. “Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."
 
Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what’s going to come back.”

 

 

Source: http://arstechnica.c...loud-computing/



#21 The Teej

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:58

So in short, Sony can't figure it out, so they say it can't be done.  ok.

 

That's not what he said at all. He said it wouldn't work WELL, not that it can't be done. Of course they could figure it out - he even states they use cloud computing already. 

 

However, cloud computing would be more beneficial to AI in Sandboxes - AI that isn't directly visible or at the forefront of the screen, and doesn't need to updated every 60 times a second, but could be updated say ten times a second or even once a second, where the cloud can compute the large open world so the local processors can deal with things such as the graphics, and so on.



#22 coresx

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:59


Neowin has pretty much turned into a forum of you better not post anything that contradicts my companies statements or it's flamebait. 

 

I've noticed that change over the years. Sure it isn't the whole site but reading Neowin isn't a good experience now. You can pretty much guarantee the replies and users in topics rather than good honest discussion.

 

As for the topic at hand, the cloud has yet to prove itself in adding anything to gaming other than dedicated servers for player numbers, storing, syncing etc. which has been around for a long time. As with everything I'll believe it when I see it and Microsoft haven't been very forthcoming with Xbox One. Lets wait and see.



#23 ahhell

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:00

"

While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. “Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."
 
Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what’s going to come back.”"
 
How exactly is that a bad thing?  :s


#24 JonnyLH

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:01

Dude, you make a thread obviously invigorating that Mark Cerny states he doesn't feel the cloud will work that well. (Even though there's over 12 minutes of interview and that was all that was said)

 

Then you post a quote confirming the benefits of what the cloud allows regarding graphical fidelity? Eh?



#25 RatherLargeBear

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:02

I've noticed that change over the years. Sure it isn't the whole site but reading Neowin now isn't a good experience now. You can pretty much guarantee the replies and users in topics rather than good honest discussion.

 

As for the topic at hand, the cloud has yet to prove itself in adding anything to gaming other than dedicated servers for player numbers, storing, syncing etc. which has been around for a long time. As with everything I'll believe it when I see it and Microsoft haven't been very forthcoming with Xbox One. Lets wait and see.

 

Yes. This 1 million times



#26 OP Audioboxer

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:03

 

"

While cloud computation data doesn't have to be updated and synced with every frame of game data, developers are still going to have to manage the timing and flow of this cloud computing to avoid noticeable changes in graphic quality, Booty said. “Without getting too into the weeds, think about a lighting technique like ambient occlusion that gives you all the cracks and crevices and shadows that happen not just from direct light. There are a number of calculations that have to be done up front, and as the camera moves the effect will change. So when you walk into a room, it might be that for the first second or two the fidelity of the lighting is done by the console, but then, as the cloud catches up with that, the data comes back down to the console and you have incredibly realistic lighting."
 
Does that mean that Xbox One games will feature graphics that suddenly get much more realistic as complex data finally finishes downloading from the cloud? "Game developers have always had to wrestle with levels of detail... managing where and when you show details is part of the art of games," Booty said. "One of the exciting challenges going forward is a whole new set of techniques to manage what is going to be offloaded to the cloud and what’s going to come back.”"
 
How exactly is that a bad thing?  :s

 

 

 

That's not what he said at all. He said it wouldn't work WELL, not that it can't be done. Of course they could figure it out - he even states they use cloud computing already. 

 

However, cloud computing would be more beneficial to AI in Sandboxes - AI that isn't directly visible or at the forefront of the screen, and doesn't need to updated every 60 times a second, but could be updated say ten times a second or even once a second, where the cloud can compute the large open world so the local processors can deal with things such as the graphics, and so on.

 

There is critique of MS' claims, not that the cloud is bad. Again, yet another example of the hyper sensitive pro-Xbox worriers around here. Something cannot be critical without it meaning it's a claim of complete denial.

 

Even the title of this topic says "won't work well", not, "doesn't work at all".

 

You can't even show an inquisitive mind or ask challenging questions towards MS, it's almost like the Gamers Hangout is actually nothing to do with games, but religion.



#27 n_K

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:03

Cerny's playing dumb.

 

He refers to cloud computing in the same context as match making

Hi, did you miss all of E3 when microsoft went on about cloud match making or what?



#28 JonnyLH

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:05

Hi, did you miss all of E3 when microsoft went on about cloud match making or what?

Server Farming <> Online Services

 

When games use the cloud, the servers are running low level code to create data which can provide graphical output. This is ran in parallel dynamically across servers and can be expanded/shrank depending on resources.

 

Matchmaking is just a online service which sits somewhere chugging along. 



#29 spenser.d

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:06

I'm sure he'd love for everyone to think that...

#30 HawkMan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:10

Yeah that being whether or not you guys can distinguish the difference. As I've said ANYTHING posted in a critique of MS is immediately biased/slanted/flamebait/trolling or as HawkMan would put it, FUD.
 


No I do not call anything anti MS/Xbox FUD just the stuff that actually is. It jus coincidentally happens for some strange reason that tends to include almost all XBOX topics posted by you and Marty. Probably just coincidence, I'm sure you guys aren't hunting anti MS troll bait topics and post only those.

Anyway. None of his career have anything to do with modern graphics engines (sorry even though they had to handle more of the code back in the day, that has NO relation to modern game engines and specifically their graphics. And absolutely NONE of his career has anything to do with cloud commuting, databases or async computing. Three very large and extensive fields on their own.

On top of that, he's the system architect for PS4 a competing console, that doesn't have cloud computing(yet, or for the next 3 years at least) and he's saying cloud computing doesn't make a difference.... Sure. Credible. Especially with all the other actual current game developers who disagree.

And then there's the actual proof. Cloud computing lets you offload all the same stuff that a real time game needs but real time cut scenes don't. Are you now going to say that Halo 4 (and other games with real time cut scenes) don't have significantly increased graphics in the cut scenes. The cloud will give the same boost to actual game play.



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