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PS4 Architect Mark Cerny: Cloud won't work well to boost graphics


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#31 firey

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:25

So.. k guys.. if what the xb1 fans are saying.. It must be doable on the PC.

I get an OK video card, we will go midrange.  Then I will find a game (Lets use Crysis 3) that can do cloud COMPUTING, and then all of a sudden I can run Crysis 3 on Full Ultra Settings, because well, the cloud is doing the graphics for me?




#32 Geoffrey B.

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:29

i sort of agree with them however, this is just the same argument that was made by Xbox when they were trying to justify using it. You cannot use cloud to enhance the graphics of a game because of latency however, you can offload smaller details like foliage and ambient details so that the core system can spend more time rendering more important details in the game. as the ambient content is not latency dependent.



#33 Lord Method Man

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:31

Heh, Cloud gaming. Because it worked out so great for OnLive.



#34 vetneufuse

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:38

never really got how cloud rendering makes gaming "faster" it seems like all it would do is put latency in there... I've heard everything from "its all rendered in the cloud" ala OnLive.... to "parts are rendered and merged at the client" which seems like there'd be a big disconnect in timing there... to "we just offload stuff that needs prerendered"... at this point what's the point?! what am I missing here?



#35 LaP

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:04

Yes I agree that it is one of the largest buzz words this generation, but to say it won't work when we all (including Cerny) don't know what Microsoft are doing with it is just silly. 

 

If Microsoft would actually clearly explain how it's gonna work and would show playable demos of how awesome the cloud is maybe people like me would not be skeptical.

 

For now this is just a buzz word. People keep touting about the cloud but we have yet to see a real life demo of its awesomeness. When Microsoft demoed driveatars at E3 to me it looked like a perfectly normal and traditional racing game AI. Nothing special. Titanfall looked like a great multiplayers shooter but nothing not doable on a normal pc using Steam and bunch of good dedicated servers. Gfx of Titanfall were great but I was more impressed by The Division (multiplatform title running on PCs at E3) actually.

 

As a computer engineer i'm curious to know how it's gonna work. How it's gonna help games on a regular basis without the latency interfering with the experience. Cause save for persistent world materials and dedicated servers i don't see how it's gonna help games that much. Now i'll admit i'm not a skilled computer engineer just an average one and i've been working as a web designer for years now so i'm a little bit out of touch with new techs.

 

I'm sure some a crazy guys will find a way to use this to create some crazy gameplay while making an exclusive One game. But will big publishers be able to easily use the cloud to enhance multiplatform titles on a regular basis? Will it be cost effective and worth it? This has yet to be proven, demoed or even explained at all.

 

For now and until Microsoft proves me wrong by demoing it the Cloud is the next Blinx: The Time Sweeper. Remember Blinx? I personally do. Back then i was a mod at Gamespot. In the System Wars forum XBox fans were all talking about this game. How the HD would improve gaming. Revolutionize it. How Blinx would be awesome and not doable without the HD. And the Bethesda guys gave then ammunition by saying Morrowind was not possible without an HD (which was a complete lie). Finally Blinx sucked and the HD did not really make the games better (which was expected).

 

In the end it's all about the games. No matter how awesome the cloud is it's still possible to make great games without it. If the One doesn't have the best games then the PS4 will sell better and devs will just ignore the cloud. It will become a novelty for exclusive titles. The One and PS4 will be released soon. If the Cloud is to play such a big role they'll need to show it soon. They don't have a 1 year headstart like last gen.



#36 Showan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:29

People kill me... Including Cerny...

 

Nobody knows how "Cloud" will truly work from a gaming perspective... NOBODY... Not even Cerny 

 

What I hate is EVERYBODY shooting it down before its even given a chance...

 

Graphics may or may not work... if the graphics boost isn't there, well so what...

 

Cloud Computing offers a ton of other content... In which those things can be added to gaming...  how about an AI server for Elder Scrolls or Mass Effect... That could expand conversations beyond the same 3 or 4 lines NPC's give...

 

Or what if games that are connected are powered by Bing on the back end...

 

OPEN UP PEOPLE..... Gamers are suppose to have open minds... but all we do is shoot things down...



#37 Athernar

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:40

Nobody knows how "Cloud" will truly work from a gaming perspective... NOBODY... Not even Cerny 

 

Yeah uh, there are plenty of people who know and understand what "cloud" brings to the table. This isn't new or innovative tech we're talking about here, at heart this is the same client-server relationship that's been powering the web for the last two decades. The only new part is scalability - which has no impact on anyone except for Microsoft as the host.

 

Cloud Computing offers a ton of other content... In which those things can be added to gaming...  how about an AI server for Elder Scrolls or Mass Effect... That could expand conversations beyond the same 3 or 4 lines NPC's give...

 

You don't need an "AI Server" for that. Modern games can support thousands of potential dialogue options as is, the limitation comes from needing to pay people for voiceacting and developers to author the gameplay attached to those options.

 

--

 

This "cloud" thing is nothing but pure PR, and it's scary how willing people are not not only lap it up - but to blindly defend it whatever the cost.



#38 Showan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:40

If Microsoft would actually clearly explain how it's gonna work and would show playable demos of how awesome the cloud is maybe people like me would not be skeptical.

 

For now this is just a buzz word. People keep touting about the cloud but we have yet to see a real life demo of its awesomeness. When Microsoft demoed driveatars at E3 to me it looked like a perfectly normal and traditional racing game AI. Nothing special. Titanfall looked like a great multiplayers shooter but nothing not doable on a normal pc using Steam and bunch of good dedicated servers. Gfx of Titanfall were great but I was more impressed by The Division (multiplatform title running on PCs at E3) actually.

 

As a computer engineer i'm curious to know how it's gonna work. How it's gonna help games on a regular basis without the latency interfering with the experience. Cause save for persistent world materials and dedicated servers i don't see how it's gonna help games that much. Now i'll admit i'm not a skilled computer engineer just an average one and i've been working as a web designer for years now so i'm a little bit out of touch with new techs.

 

I'm sure some a crazy guys will find a way to use this to create some crazy gameplay while making an exclusive One game. But will big publishers be able to easily use the cloud to enhance multiplatform titles on a regular basis? Will it be cost effective and worth it? This has yet to be proven, demoed or even explained at all.

 

For now and until Microsoft proves me wrong by demoing it the Cloud is the next Blinx: The Time Sweeper. Remember Blinx? I personally do. Back then i was a mod at Gamespot. In the System Wars forum XBox fans were all talking about this game. How the HD would improve gaming. Revolutionize it. How Blinx would be awesome and not doable without the HD. And the Bethesda guys gave then ammunition by saying Morrowind was not possible without an HD (which was a complete lie). Finally Blinx sucked and the HD did not really make the games better (which was expected).

 

In the end it's all about the games. No matter how awesome the cloud is it's still possible to make great games without it. If the One doesn't have the best games then the PS4 will sell better and devs will just ignore the cloud. It will become a novelty for exclusive titles. The One and PS4 will be released soon. If the Cloud is to play such a big role they'll need to show it soon. They don't have a 1 year headstart like last gen.

 

Thats where you are wrong...They don't have to "Show the cloud soon"... Microsoft designed this for future use that can be used now... Thats why the Forza team took advantage of it being available now...

The cloud was designed for years 5-10 when gamers start getting impatient and crying for something new.

Bandwith the world over should not stay stagnant for the next 5+ years.

Tech changes like the wind and gaming consoles are usually stuck in the time period they were created in... look how quickly iPad's and Galaxy S' are churned out... always improving...

 

Microsoft spotted this a mile away....

 

Consoles can't be churned out on the regular (gaming industry doesn't work this way...fragmentation an all)...

 

So the next logical thing would be the WEB.... 

 

I did a post on NEOWIN stating how the WEB will be the killer feature of the generation of consoles and it will be your ISP holding you back.... Not Microsoft...



#39 Showan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:46

Yeah uh, there are plenty of people who know and understand what "cloud" brings to the table. This isn't new or innovative tech we're talking about here, at heart this is the same client-server relationship that's been powering the web for the last two decades. The only new part is scalability - which has no impact on anyone except for Microsoft as the host.

 

 

You don't need an "AI Server" for that. Modern games can support thousands of potential dialogue options as is, the limitation comes from needing to pay people for voiceacting and developers to author the gameplay attached to those options.

 

 

Nobody has ever tried this from a Gaming Console perspective... not on this scale... Nobody has taken a risk like this on a GAME CONSOLE

Once you have someones voice recorded for whatever you need them for... you don't really need them any longer... you know how they sound, and you can manipulate their voice for expansive content... And a AI server would work wonders into a Game... how those retards in shooter games who keep going to the same spot to be slaughtered... now they will have a Mind not to bunch up in the same spot and get killed....

And when I play Elder Scrolls, I want more than the same canned conversations that i have been seeing for years...  An AI Server would make characters feel more alive and not well BOTS

 

Match Making and Hosting have been around... yes...  But not one game publisher has tried 300k dedicated servers... not one has tried it on this level...  As far as consoles go...



#40 nMIK-3

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:51

Reading the comments, here and in other forums... All I have to say is that people are so confused about this aspect, they cannot separate and tell the differences between, Cloud Gaming or Streaming and Cloud Computing...



#41 kaotic

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:53

 

This "cloud" thing is nothing but pure PR, and it's scary how willing people are not not only lap it up - but to blindly defend it whatever the cost.

 

Given what I've seen recently from Azure and Windows 8.1 I have to disagree (the teched demos were really interesting). If MS can take the services they currently have and find a way to make similar services for gaming - and i think if anyone could it'll be MS - then that'll make the xbox one pretty awesome.



#42 JonnyLH

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:54

Reading the comments, here and in other forums... All I have to say is that people are so confused about this aspect, they cannot separate and tell the differences between, Cloud Gaming or Streaming and Cloud Computing...

What this guy said.

 

People should do research on Azure and server farming before making witty comments.



#43 Athernar

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:54

Nobody has ever tried this from a Gaming Console perspective... not on this scale... Nobody has taken a risk like this on a GAME CONSOLE

Once you have someones voice recorded for whatever you need them for... you don't really need them any longer... you know how they sound, and you can manipulate their voice for expansive content... And a AI server would work wonders into a Game... how those retards in shooter games who keep going to the same spot to be slaughtered... now they will have a Mind not to bunch up in the same spot and get killed....

And when I play Elder Scrolls, I want more than the same canned conversations that i have been seeing for years...  An AI Server would make characters feel more alive and not well BOTS

 

Match Making and Hosting have been around... yes...  But not one game publisher has tried 300k dedicated servers... not one has tried it on this level...  As far as consoles go...

 

Being a game console doesn't change anything, the tech works exactly the same no matter what device is the client. It's not a risk, it's not new and it's not innovative.

 

You keep using this invented term "AI server", but what you're describing has nothing to do with AI at all. On top of that, voice synthesis even using human samples (E.g. Vocaloid) sounds unnatural, your idea would clash heavily with traditional developer-generated content - and you still havn't solved or even addressed the gameplay issue.



#44 JonnyLH

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 15:56

Being a game console doesn't change anything, the tech works exactly the same no matter what device is the client. It's not a risk, it's not new and it's not innovative.

 

You keep using this invented term "AI server", but what you're describing has nothing to do with AI at all. On top of that, voice synthesis even using human samples (E.g. Vocaloid) sounds unnatural, your idea would clash heavily with traditional developer-generated content - and you still havn't solved or even addressed the gameplay issue.

Does it not? What if I say that console includes hardware which off-loads the data compression from the CPU and there's memory buses to get the responses straight into RAM without hitting code.

 

Do your research.



#45 Athernar

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 16:09

Does it not? What if I say that console includes hardware which off-loads the data compression from the CPU and there's memory buses to get the responses straight into RAM without hitting code.

 

Do your research.

 

Considering I've already busted you once for making rubbish claims, whatever you say has little value as far as I'm concerned.

 

Even if what you say is true, it doesn't matter simply because the biggest limitation is the latency between the client and server, which precludes any interaction with realtime rendering. For anything that doesn't fall into that category the extra hardware is no longer relevant, as the data isn't especially time-sensitive.





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