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Posted

This hasn't been officially confirmed yet. Still, it's a pretty strong rumor, so it's probably true.

 

Current sources put the PS4 OS at 1.5gb with 1gb reserved for future-proofing and another 1gb for the "flexible" memory. I'm not really sure why Sony just doesn't do a 2/6 split for the OS and games right off the bat. 2gb is more than enough to support all of the features they want and still have room to expand in the future. I guess it's nice that Sony is trying to think ahead and not wind up in another cross-game-party-chat debacle like they did this gen, but 3.5gb for a game console OS is ridiculous.

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Posted

So instead of trying to change it or just ignore it, you make posts pointing it out?  That'll help the situation :rolleyes:

 

Yep! And a thank you for proving my point. Cheers! (Y)

 

This hasn't been officially confirmed yet. Still, it's a pretty strong rumor, so it's probably true.

 

Current sources put the PS4 OS at 1.5gb with 1gb reserved for future-proofing and another 1gb for the "flexible" memory. I'm not really sure why Sony just doesn't do a 2/6 split for the OS and games right off the bat. 2gb is more than enough to support all of the features they want and still have room to expand in the future. I guess it's nice that Sony is trying to think ahead and not wind up in another cross-game-party-chat debacle like they did this gen, but 3.5gb for a game console OS is ridiculous.

 

Honestly, I don't think it will matter too much in the end anyway. The developers are going to use the tools allotted to them, and they are going to run with what they have and do their best to make the experiences great on both systems.

 

PC gaming being the exception for obvious reasons.

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Posted

The information we've had on this has been all over the place.

 

So only 4.5GB available for games? I await those that bashed MS for only having 5GB available for games, to come in and condemn Sony for having less

 

Don't hold your breath.

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Posted

I'm a little bit surprised either console needs that much RAM for the OS. On the other hand, I doubt the games are going to really need more than 4-5GB anyway. More is always better of course, but if you look at PC games they use around 1-2GB at most (afaik, due to prevalence of 32-bit systems), so 4-5GB would seem a sensible "next step".

 

However you look at it though, 4-5GB is one huge step up from the amount the 360 and PS3 had.

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Posted

512 MB seemed way too small for the PS4's OS when the Xbox One's OS will require 3 GB of RAM. 3.5 GB seems reasonable but 4 GB would have been pushing it. It's a lot of RAM so hopefully, the games will look great. I'm hoping to see the higher RAM usage trickle down to the PC. Battlefield 4, for example, will only support 64-bit versions of Windows as well as DX11. I don't think any game has such requirements but Crysis 3 comes close because it supports DX11 and 32- and 64-bit versions of Windows.

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Posted

So only 4.5GB available for games? I await those that bashed MS for only having 5GB available for games, to come in and condemn Sony for having less

To be honest the hardcore sony loyalists will just remind us all that it has GDDR5 which will make up for it in someway or another.

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Posted

Typical, Sony tell lies to get PR points ahead of Microsoft then when no one is looking, leak out the truth quietly. Sony do smart but false PR, Microsoft do stupid but honest PR.

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Posted

Typical, Sony tell lies to get PR points ahead of Microsoft then when no one is looking, leak out the truth quietly. Sony do smart but false PR, Microsoft do stupid but honest PR.

 

   It's just marketing and a lot of people have fallen for the Sony's marketing.  I guess if you are gamer and Sony says they are for games and doesn't highlight their "Entertainment" options all that much you end up believing their marketing.

 

  As I said NeoGaf is just a Sony Shill forum now.  They bought Sony's marketing hook, line, and sinker.

 

  These consoles are very powerful now so of course playing games, movies, TV, Music, and Apps is very easy to do.  However, somehow the PS4 is the only console that can play games.  Hook, Line and Sinker... Hook, Line, and Sinker... 

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Posted

Oh by the way the article has been updated and it's worse now than it was before.  What a horrible situation if true.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

 

New source confirms 4.5GB guaranteed, 512MB of "flexible memory"

 

UPDATE: A new source familiar with the matter has provided additional information to Digital Foundry that confirms only 4.5GB of the PS4's 8GB GDDR5 memory pool is guaranteed to game developers right now, while also clarifying how the PS4's "flexible memory" works in practice.

 

In real terms, an additional 512MB of physical RAM may be available in addition to the 4.5GB mentioned in the SDK. Flexible memory consists of physical and virtual spaces, and the latter introduces paging issues which impact performance. In our original story we combined them together.

 

For practical game applications, the correct figures for this story, as we understand it now, are a guaranteed 4.5GB for development and a further 512MB from the flexible pool. We have updated the headline accordingly.

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Posted

   It's just marketing and a lot of people have fallen for the Sony's marketing.  I guess if you are gamer and Sony says they are for games and doesn't highlight their "Entertainment" options all that much you end up believing their marketing.

 

  As I said NeoGaf is just a Sony Shill forum now.  They bought Sony's marketing hook, line, and sinker.

 

  These consoles are very powerful now so of course playing games, movies, TV, Music, and Apps is very easy to do.  However, somehow the PS4 is the only console that can play games.  Hook, Line and Sinker... Hook, Line, and Sinker... 

Marketing is marketing. Microsoft engage in dodgy marketing too (e.g. "Do Not Track" in IE). I'm not sure if Sony have ever directly claimed that devs would get to use 8GB, but both companies have been very similar marketing wise... intimate at something then let people fill in the blanks with their own desire, wait, then quietly leak the details. It's smart, although it did backfire on Microsoft with the always on/digital sharing.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing NeoGaf up. It is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

 

Oh by the way the article has been updated and it's worse now than it was before.  What a horrible situation if true.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

 

New source confirms 4.5GB guaranteed, 512MB of "flexible memory"

 

UPDATE: A new source familiar with the matter has provided additional information to Digital Foundry that confirms only 4.5GB of the PS4's 8GB GDDR5 memory pool is guaranteed to game developers right now, while also clarifying how the PS4's "flexible memory" works in practice.

 

In real terms, an additional 512MB of physical RAM may be available in addition to the 4.5GB mentioned in the SDK. Flexible memory consists of physical and virtual spaces, and the latter introduces paging issues which impact performance. In our original story we combined them together.

 

For practical game applications, the correct figures for this story, as we understand it now, are a guaranteed 4.5GB for development and a further 512MB from the flexible pool. We have updated the headline accordingly.

Not sure why it is a "horrible solution". The two consoles are very closely matched (~512MB difference either way), and I doubt devs are going to be using anywhere near the full amount until the end of generation. Even then, will it matter? The PS3 had only 512MB (afair) and still managed games like Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us (and soon, GTA V). If you can do those with 512MB, then I can't wait to see what can be done with 4-5GB. :D  

 

Only question really is how the different RAM speeds/setups will work. Nothing I've read seems to be in agreement on it.

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Posted

Marketing is marketing. Microsoft engage in dodgy marketing too (e.g. "Do Not Track" in IE). I'm not sure if Sony have ever directly claimed that devs would get to use 8GB, but both companies have been very similar marketing wise... intimate at something then let people fill in the blanks with their own desire, wait, then quietly leak the details. It's smart, although it did backfire on Microsoft with the always on/digital sharing.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing NeoGaf up. It is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

 

Not sure why it is a "horrible solution". The two consoles are very closely matched (~512MB difference either way), and I doubt devs are going to be using anywhere near the full amount until the end of generation. Even then, will it matter? The PS3 had only 512MB (afair) and still managed games like Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us (and soon, GTA V). If you can do those with 512MB, then I can't wait to see what can be done with 4-5GB. :D  

 

Only question really is how the different RAM speeds/setups will work. Nothing I've read seems to be in agreement on it.

 

Well, see the problem is that people take that marketing as some kind of fact.  It's not a fact at all, it's just something to get people to buy their system, there is NO TRUTH TO IT.

Microsoft could use the same type of marketing and people would not believe it because of two reasons....

 

1) Sony did it first

2) Microsoft isn't cool and is perceived to be evil.

 

I bring up NeoGaf because it is a huge gaming forum that is one of the largest and one of the most well known on the Internet and it used to be multiplatform.  It's clearly not multiplatform anymore and has become a joke of a forum.   This is relevant to the discussion because that is a lot of different people with the same "Hive Mind" as almost all of them think alike.  

 

It's a horrible solution because Sony said that they had 8 gigs and was only supposed to use 1 Gig for the OS, now they are expanding to 3.5 gigs and the OS isn't going to be like what Microsoft is doing, sure it might multitask but it can't do what Microsoft has.  Also it's a horrible solution for this part as well..." Flexible memory consists of physical and virtual spaces, and the latter introduces paging issues which impact performance."

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Posted

My thought process says that this 3.5 is not ONLY for the Operating System but for other functions as well.  For example the 15 Minutes of continuous recording of video and keeping performance up for that.  That is one thing, I am sure there is more.

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Posted

My thought process says that this 3.5 is not ONLY for the Operating System but for other functions as well.  For example the 15 Minutes of continuous recording of video and keeping performance up for that.  That is one thing, I am sure there is more.

 

That is just a part of the OS, also MS has 3 separate OS's which take up 3GB and Sony has one which takes up 3.5? (Xbox also has continuous record)

 

People seem to be talking about Marketing a lot and realistically neither have actually started their big marketing push.

They have made some PR stunts like PS4 taunting Xbox One about used games and Xbox One hyping up the cloud, its small trinkets at the moment.

They are releasing little bits of information to keep people interested and talking about it, Sony and Microsoft both love the console wars. 

Like Apple, they 'accidentally' leave a new iphone at a bar somewhere and its details are 'leaked' then it slowly releases small bits of confirmed information here and there.

It keeps people talking about it and relevant, if they told us everything about the console 2-3 months ago we wouldn't be talking about them now.

 

Also the 4.5GB free RAM is a hit on the PS4's hardware dominance if it turns out to be true, its doesn't mean the Xbox One is now better but the PS4 did drop a little bit.

The original suggestions were the OS was going to be 1gb, I thought this was actually a bit much because the PS3 OS was tiny and it was fine. I don't think the PS4 would use much either I think its to do with the quick-switching.

Specifically when quick-switching between gaming and blu-ray movie (high-res video) because they want to make everything instantaneous you could play a game then switch screen back into the OS, or a blu-ray movie.

So all three would need to run as background processes or stored in RAM for quick access. So maybe 1gb for OS, 1.5gb for OS apps, 1gb for blu-ray and 4.5gb for games?

 

I would much rather have that extra gb available for games rather than reserved for instantaneous blu-ray if that is the case.

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Posted

Well, see the problem is that people take that marketing as some kind of fact.  It's not a fact at all, it's just something to get people to buy their system, there is NO TRUTH TO IT.

Microsoft could use the same type of marketing and people would not believe it because of two reasons....

 

1) Sony did it first

2) Microsoft isn't cool and is perceived to be evil.

 

I bring up NeoGaf because it is a huge gaming forum that is one of the largest and one of the most well known on the Internet and it used to be multiplatform.  It's clearly not multiplatform anymore and has become a joke of a forum.   This is relevant to the discussion because that is a lot of different people with the same "Hive Mind" as almost all of them think alike.  

 

It's a horrible solution because Sony said that they had 8 gigs and was only supposed to use 1 Gig for the OS, now they are expanding to 3.5 gigs and the OS isn't going to be like what Microsoft is doing, sure it might multitask but it can't do what Microsoft has.  Also it's a horrible solution for this part as well..." Flexible memory consists of physical and virtual spaces, and the latter introduces paging issues which impact performance."

Of course people take marketing as fact... that's the whole bleedin' point of marketing.. :p Microsoft do use the same type of marketing, as does any other company. If you can see through the rubbish these companies publish then  (Y) but don't get frustrated by it.

 

If you don't like NeoGaf don't visit it. Then try to post positively on Neowin so it doesn't become the same. It is possible to like a product/company without needing to defend every part of it and/or attack every part of a competitor.

 

My thought process says that this 3.5 is not ONLY for the Operating System but for other functions as well.  For example the 15 Minutes of continuous recording of video and keeping performance up for that.  That is one thing, I am sure there is more.

Of course. I'd also suspect that a chunk (on both) is just "reserved" without any use right now. Can always give unused RAM back to developers later in the system's life cycle, but you can't take it away when you want to add a new OS feature. I doubt the games will need more than 2-4GB for a while yet anyway.

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Of course people take marketing as fact... that's the whole bleedin' point of marketing.. :p Microsoft do use the same type of marketing, as does any other company. If you can see through the rubbish these companies publish then  (Y) but don't get frustrated by it.

 

If you don't like NeoGaf don't visit it. Then try to post positively on Neowin so it doesn't become the same. It is possible to like a product/company without needing to defend every part of it and/or attack every part of a competitor.

 

Of course. I'd also suspect that a chunk (on both) is just "reserved" without any use right now. Can always give unused RAM back to developers later in the system's life cycle, but you can't take it away when you want to add a new OS feature. I doubt the games will need more than 2-4GB for a while yet anyway.

 

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17775

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Posted

Just caught up on this news (N) Already don't like the look of the PS4 OS but I hope this doesn't mean it's going to be as sluggish and horrible as the XMB :/

 

Much more even on the RAM comparisons now, even if they're using GDDR5. Saying that, the 360 was fantastic at memory management so I had little doubt MS couldn't pull off the same wizardy for the X1.

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Posted

Im gonna keep it classy on this one... But the more I look at the PS4 now and all it can do.

It really appears that Sony took a Wii U and X360 and poked and prodded every bit of those 2 consoles thoroughly...

And said to themselves "Let's make a PSWiiU60".

I kept looking at the video of the PS4's UI and my PS3 XMB... The XMB is so lightweight, it really doesn't need a large footprint on resources... But the PS4 UI, there seems to be a lot going on at any given time, so there's gonna be some resources needed, if all of that is staying live in the background.. And always recording (15minutes at that) gameplay footage, can get GREEDY on resources... Or does the PS4 secondary chip handle the recording part?

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Posted

as sluggish and horrible as the XMB :/

I've seen this comment made about the XMB a lot. Only problem I have is it sometimes takes a moment to load the icons - is that what people are referring to?

 

I've always really liked the XMB as it is simple to grasp and navigate, so I kind of wish they'd stuck with it for the PS4 and solved its few deficiencies. The PSN store on the other hand is so slow it physically hurts... should be considered a form of torture.

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That is just a part of the OS, also MS has 3 separate OS's which take up 3GB and Sony has one which takes up 3.5? (Xbox also has continuous record)

 

People seem to be talking about Marketing a lot and realistically neither have actually started their big marketing push.

They have made some PR stunts like PS4 taunting Xbox One about used games and Xbox One hyping up the cloud, its small trinkets at the moment.

They are releasing little bits of information to keep people interested and talking about it, Sony and Microsoft both love the console wars. 

Like Apple, they 'accidentally' leave a new iphone at a bar somewhere and its details are 'leaked' then it slowly releases small bits of confirmed information here and there.

It keeps people talking about it and relevant, if they told us everything about the console 2-3 months ago we wouldn't be talking about them now.

 

Also the 4.5GB free RAM is a hit on the PS4's hardware dominance if it turns out to be true, its doesn't mean the Xbox One is now better but the PS4 did drop a little bit.

The original suggestions were the OS was going to be 1gb, I thought this was actually a bit much because the PS3 OS was tiny and it was fine. I don't think the PS4 would use much either I think its to do with the quick-switching.

Specifically when quick-switching between gaming and blu-ray movie (high-res video) because they want to make everything instantaneous you could play a game then switch screen back into the OS, or a blu-ray movie.

So all three would need to run as background processes or stored in RAM for quick access. So maybe 1gb for OS, 1.5gb for OS apps, 1gb for blu-ray and 4.5gb for games?

 

I would much rather have that extra gb available for games rather than reserved for instantaneous blu-ray if that is the case.

 

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

 

It's Now been confirmed.  5 Gigabytes of Ram for games total and 3 for the OS and other functions.  Sony confirmed this.

 

UPDATE #2: Sony has issued a statement:

 

The actual true distinction is that:

  • "Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
  • "Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.

Based on this information, plus the new source coming forward to explain the properties of flexible memory, our take on this right now is that there is 4.5GB of conventional RAM available to developers, along with the OS-controlled flexible memory Sony describes, in addition to that.

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Posted

I've seen this comment made about the XMB a lot. Only problem I have is it sometimes takes a moment to load the icons - is that what people are referring to?

 

I've always really liked the XMB as it is simple to grasp and navigate, so I kind of wish they'd stuck with it for the PS4 and solved its few deficiencies. The PSN store on the other hand is so slow it physically hurts... should be considered a form of torture.

 

I never really cared for the XMB at all.  It was slow and clunky and the same Interface as my old 2002 Sony Camera.   It's really outdated from the late 90's, but the real killer is how to get to your stuff.  The more movies/music/games that you have, the worse it is to get to.

 

Sony's new OS on the PS4 looks just as bad in fact, but now things are all over the screen and it's not very organized.

 

Sony knows how to make games, but they should hire professionals to do their OS.

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Posted

I wonder what the original PS4 would have been like.  4GB of total RAM would have horrible if a quarter+ would have been reserved for the OS.

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Posted

I wonder what the original PS4 would have been like.  4GB of total RAM would have horrible if a quarter+ would have been reserved for the OS.

 

They would have had to sacrifice some OS features and they probably couldn't record as much video unless they stored it on a slow hard drive.

They would be using a lot of texture compression. :)

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Posted

I can't believe how some people are so gullible.  Sony confirms 5 for game development and the rest for OS functions but they won't tell anyone specifically what it's used for and some people hear 6 from a rumor so they automatically assume 6 because of a Sony developer or whomever and that is what they go with.

 

They believe what they want to believe and the funny thing is that they have been manipulated by "Damage Control"

 

Sony is all about propaganda, damage control and marketing to try to get people to buy their consoles and it's all working.   Yes, I am taking notes for my own business.

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Posted

With all this RAM dedicated to the OS, I hope the guide menu in the Xbox will be fluid. Using the guide while playing a demanding game turned it into a horrible jerky mess which took forever to load.

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Posted

Yes, we get it, you're pro-microsoft yogurt.

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