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Xbox One "Who's telling the Truth about the Cloud"


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#16 OP GotBored

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:05

Really? So better lighting models don't improve on graphics? Are you really going there? Are you quite sure about what you've just said? You'll want to see the difference in lighting in for example a game like Quake and newer Unreal Engine 3 games, makes a hell of a lot of difference in how graphics are perceived. A lighting model is a VERY large part of the graphical interpretation of a rendered 3D world.

It's local variation computation on that steamed lighting model that makes all the difference. You see it clearly demonstrated in that video and isn't possible done in real time locally as it requires too much computing power to track individual photonic traces.

 

The main difference between Quake and Unreal Engine 3 isn't in the lighting.

 

quake-screenshot-1.jpg

 

unrealengine3march200011.jpg




#17 Thief000

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:10

Really? No HDRR and per pixel lighting, dynamic shadows...there is a huge difference in the lighting between those engine revisions. Done talking about this, this thread is yet another fanboy flame starter and reported.

 

The main difference between Quake and Unreal Engine 3 isn't in the lighting.

 

 

 



#18 Skiver

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:11

You dont seem to understand it not about PS4 vs XB One, its about what actually possible so people don't just get their hopes up and fall for the hype.

 

Because if they do they will eventually be disappointed and it will bring more bad opinions of Microsoft.

If its not about the two consoles, then why was Gaikai even mentioned? Why was the LEAD architect for the PS4 interviewed?

 

I'm sorry but as I said, from the guys video post history you can quite see he leans more to the Sony Consoles. In all honesty I think Sony are getting a bit of bad press at the moment so the why MS is going to fail news articles are coming out in strength.

As we are talking facts and you seem to believe that there are people falling for Marketing Hype then I will refer back to Drivertars which has been details in what it can do and I love the sound of. Whether that is reliant on the cloud or whether MS/Turn 10 are simply choosing to exploit the cloud for this its a bonus to me so there is no hype failing there. Also as it's been discussion match making should be a lot better, again another bonus. Lastly, as Theif has pointed out there are at least some visuals that can be offloaded to the cloud. Will that element make the quality better? Probably not, but what it does allow is for that small processing offload to then be re-direct at the stuff that is more intensive, it may only be small but the more processing power that can be freed up by the cloud the more power you have locally.



#19 MorganX

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:20

I don't understand how you think a simple lighting model done externally can improve graphics, lighting can be seen the same as an item in an MMO world. The light doesn't get better graphics, its merely an item processed outside of the test server. Its like if you join an MMO world and there is a lamp there.. that's done in the MMO server.. except your example uses a light source.


It's a start. When that becomes real-time reflections ... Anyway, this is not a platform fight, Sony, Nintendo and any other platform can utilize cloud computing when it becomes beneficial. Microsoft is simply saying they're leveraging what they can do "now" to enhance their platform and games in various ways. I have never heard Microsoft say it will improve graphics rendering locally.

#20 OP GotBored

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:36

If its not about the two consoles, then why was Gaikai even mentioned? Why was the LEAD architect for the PS4 interviewed?

 

I'm sorry but as I said, from the guys video post history you can quite see he leans more to the Sony Consoles. In all honesty I think Sony are getting a bit of bad press at the moment so the why MS is going to fail news articles are coming out in strength.

As we are talking facts and you seem to believe that there are people falling for Marketing Hype then I will refer back to Drivertars which has been details in what it can do and I love the sound of. Whether that is reliant on the cloud or whether MS/Turn 10 are simply choosing to exploit the cloud for this its a bonus to me so there is no hype failing there. Also as it's been discussion match making should be a lot better, again another bonus. Lastly, as Theif has pointed out there are at least some visuals that can be offloaded to the cloud. Will that element make the quality better? Probably not, but what it does allow is for that small processing offload to then be re-direct at the stuff that is more intensive, it may only be small but the more processing power that can be freed up by the cloud the more power you have locally.

 

Gaikai and Mark Cerny were mentioned because someone tried to point out that facts weren't used in the video and only opinions, but he based those opinions off facts and I directed him to what the facts were.

 

The hype is about miracle graphics in the 'cloud' which is false, I'm not dismissing that the cloud has big improvements over the X360 just the graphics hype.

 

 

It's a start. When that becomes real-time reflections ... Anyway, this is not a platform fight, Sony, Nintendo and any other platform can utilize cloud computing when it becomes beneficial. Microsoft is simply saying they're leveraging what they can do "now" to enhance their platform and games in various ways. I have never heard Microsoft say it will improve graphics rendering locally.

 

Yes I agree it is a start, but I don't expect it to mature or become beneficial on a large scale like a major console anytime soon.(Not for the PS4 or Xbox One generation at least). But as you said any platform can utilize it and you should be able to get a network card with a small chipset which can transfer that data into tv format and a chipset for controllers and away you go, we wont need an actual gaming console to play then.



#21 BajiRav

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:41

Just going to quote my post from the Mark Cerny says thread here,

 


XB1 has X amount of processing capacity.
A game requires Y+Z for processing.
If Z can be offloaded without affecting game experience, a developer can choose to do it.

A traditional game will adjust Y+Z to fit within X.
An XB1 game will offload Z and will have the entire X for processing Y.

That's the whole ****ing point of "cloud" in XB1. Is it very hard to understand?


#22 OP GotBored

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 13:56

XB1 has X amount of processing capacity.
A game requires Y+Z for processing.
If Z can be offloaded without affecting game experience, a developer can choose to do it.

A traditional game will adjust Y+Z to fit within X.
An XB1 game will offload Z and will have the entire X for processing Y.

That's the whole ****ing point of "cloud" in XB1. Is it very hard to understand?

 

I could use the same example on anything,

 

Onya has X amount of processing capacity.

A game requires Y+Z for processing.
If Z can be offloaded without affecting game experience, a developer can choose to do it.

A traditional game will adjust Y+Z to fit within X.
An Onya game will offload Z and will have the entire X for processing Y.

That's the whole ****ing point of "cloud" in Onya. Is it very hard to understand?

 

Doesn't mean its going to improve or can improve its graphics.



#23 Showan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 14:16

If the graphics improve.. That means the "Cloud" has done it's part as far as the improvement goes.  It does not matter how as long as its done.

 

It does NOT matter if that graphical improvement happens locally or in the Cloud.



#24 JonnyLH

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 14:56

I could use the same example on anything,

 

Onya has X amount of processing capacity.

A game requires Y+Z for processing.
If Z can be offloaded without affecting game experience, a developer can choose to do it.

A traditional game will adjust Y+Z to fit within X.
An Onya game will offload Z and will have the entire X for processing Y.

That's the whole ****ing point of "cloud" in Onya. Is it very hard to understand?

 

Doesn't mean its going to improve or can improve its graphics.

How can you not see that logic?
 

If there's more resources available on the box, developers can focus on more graphical elements or further optimization. What is there not to understand here? 



#25 M_Lyons10

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 15:03

I don't mean this to come off as rude by any means, so I apologize in advance...  LOL

 

But I do not understand HOW people can be THIS confused about what the cloud is capable of for the XBox One in 2013!  This isn't some voodoo technology that is brand new or anything.  LOL


How can you not see that logic?
 

If there's more resources available on the box, developers can focus on more graphical elements or further optimization. What is there not to understand here? 

 

EXACTLY!

 

When the cloud is doing the math and the console is just creating the sprites, etc., it could have a significant impact.  The example was shown of a ton of asteroids in space (Completely calculated and rendered on the console), then they hooked in to the cloud and had 10 times that number of asteroids able to be displayed (I forget the exact difference).  That is something that, at that graphics quality would not have been possible without the cloud.  BUT if the graphics were less detailed, they would have been able to render more of the asteroids locally...  It works both ways.



#26 JonnyLH

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 15:04

I don't mean this to come off as rude by any means, so I apologize in advance...  LOL

 

But I do not understand HOW people can be THIS confused about what the cloud is capable of for the XBox One in 2013!  This isn't some voodoo technology that is brand new or anything.  LOL

Exactly.

 

This has never been used in a games context with this scale of a global rollout but using server farms to calculate huge mathematical formula or encryption is done all the time. Its the same principle, just a different context of source.



#27 BajiRav

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 15:41

How can you not see that logic?
 

If there's more resources available on the box, developers can focus on more graphical elements or further optimization. What is there not to understand here? 

I couldn't believe when I saw response to my post. I thought X,Y,Z maths was simple to follow. :/

 

and WTF is Onya? :huh:



#28 HawkMan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 15:46

The main difference between Quake and Unreal Engine 3 isn't in the lighting.

 

quake-screenshot-1.jpg

 

unrealengine3march200011.jpg

 

 

At a very basic level, rendering is ALL about the lighting.



#29 Synthetic

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 15:50

This isn't some voodoo technology that is brand new or anything.

I really enjoyed that line haha. :)



#30 Skiver

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:35

I could use the same example on anything,

 

Onya has X amount of processing capacity.

A game requires Y+Z for processing.
If Z can be offloaded without affecting game experience, a developer can choose to do it.

A traditional game will adjust Y+Z to fit within X.
An Onya game will offload Z and will have the entire X for processing Y.

That's the whole ****ing point of "cloud" in Onya. Is it very hard to understand?

 

Doesn't mean its going to improve or can improve its graphics.

I think you may be expecting some sort of magic when we are referring to the cloud and graphics, I don't think anyone is saying that with the cloud things would look like the Quake screen shot and with the cloud it now looks like unreal. That isn't what anybody is saying at all. 

Additionally, for me the cloud isn't just about graphics if I understand correctly, its about much more.





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