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PS4 Hard Drive: Replaceable / Up-gradable.

ps4 harddrive storage upgrade sony hard drive

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#121 Tha Bloo Monkee

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 21:51

Uh...the performance difference between SATA3 and USB3 is negligible.  One has the THEORETICAL max of 6Gbs and the other has 5Gbs.  You will NEVER see speeds of that.

Sure, having the option to be able to replace the drive is nice but it's hardly a make or break option.  Most consumers will not be swapping the drive just for a slight speed increase.

 

...And now back to your regularly scheduled ****ing contest.

 

What you mean to say is one has a "THEORETICAL" max of 6Gbs and the other has a "THEORETICAL" max of 5Gbs.  Let's not forget that USB 2.0 is still the most common standard and thus it's not inconceivable to think that many people will use USB 2.0 externals, not 3.0 and thus slowing down their experience.  Many consumers are not aware of the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0.




#122 spenser.d

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 23:15

What you mean to say is one has a "THEORETICAL" max of 6Gbs and the other has a "THEORETICAL" max of 5Gbs.  Let's not forget that USB 2.0 is still the most common standard and thus it's not inconceivable to think that many people will use USB 2.0 externals, not 3.0 and thus slowing down their experience.  Many consumers are not aware of the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0.

 

So people won't know the difference between USB 2 and 3, but will be perfectly fine taking apart their console and replacing the internal drive?  The people you talk about won't be the ones caring about this issue.



#123 trooper11

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 00:38

I ask for actual research or data and you offer me anecdotal evidence.

 

Do people really not understand the difference?

 

 

Wait a sec, are you saying that there is research data on how many people actually replaced their ps3 hard drive or are interested in the feature?

 

I'm not sure why I'm attacked for giving anecdotal evidence when this whole debate revolves around anecdotal evidence from you and everyone else. I shared my experiences, that's all, not claiming it was a universal opinion. My point was that such people exist and I feel they represent a lot of general users.

 

Excuse me for not validating the popular theme. However, if there is some kind of research that points one way or another, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

 

USB 'Max' Transfer rate is 5Gbps and SATA 3 is 6Gbps (its not high end its the current standard).

Regardless of the USB max transfer rate the external HDD will never reach those speeds, the HDD is the bottleneck in regards to transfer rate over USD or SATA.

I've personally noticed that USB powered HDD's are the slowest, then its USB mains powered HDD's, internal HDD's, Hybrids and then SSD drives are the fastest.

 

Also the PS4 will support external hard drives like the PS3 and has two USB 3.0 ports like the Xbox One.

 

 

Does anyone have any data regarding usb 3.0 performance vs sata 3? I see a lot of you throwing around opinions, but facts would be helpful. The benchmarks I've seen seem to point to the differences being small or on existent depending on things like usb chipset, etc.

 

You mentioned external support, do you know if Sony has announced what they will allow to be stored on an external? I'd love to read links on what they have announced.

 

 

What you mean to say is one has a "THEORETICAL" max of 6Gbs and the other has a "THEORETICAL" max of 5Gbs.  Let's not forget that USB 2.0 is still the most common standard and thus it's not inconceivable to think that many people will use USB 2.0 externals, not 3.0 and thus slowing down their experience.  Many consumers are not aware of the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0.

 

 

That's a tough argument since those same consumers don't know the difference between sata 2 or sata 3 and are probably unaware the ps3 can take a replacement drive.



#124 trooper11

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 00:52

I really don't get why some people insist on attacking others over this topic.

 

I think I laid out the positives and negatives pretty well for both options previously.

 

Its not even about the ps4 vs X1, its just talking about internal vs external.

 

So maybe it would help if we dropped the console bs. This isn't about bashing the consoles. Here is my opinion on the differences:

 

Internal:

 

Advantage

-Allows for user to replace built in drive in case of failure (only sending the drive back)

-Zero aesthetic impact since it installs inside the system

 

 

External:

 

Advantage

-Option for much larger capacity vs internal since 3.5'' drives can be used

-Easier to migrate to another console (such as using it on a friend's console)

 

 

 

The performance question needs to be answered though (usb 3 vs sata 3 ssd and hdd), I haven't seen hard facts on it. I have also yet to see any info on exactly how we can use externals with the ps4.



#125 Tha Bloo Monkee

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:08

Its not even about the ps4 vs X1, its just talking about internal vs external.
 

 

The Xbox fanboys (won't mention names - you know who you are) invaded the thread because the Xbox's internal cannot be changed and they're jealous, therefore they are attempting to justify the move by saying external is better than changing the internal.

 

How somebody could write that not being able to change a hard drive is better than being able to change it is beyond me.



#126 compl3x

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:21

Wait a sec, are you saying that there is research data on how many people actually replaced their ps3 hard drive or are interested in the feature?

 

I'm not sure why I'm attacked for giving anecdotal evidence when this whole debate revolves around anecdotal evidence from you and everyone else. I shared my experiences, that's all, not claiming it was a universal opinion. My point was that such people exist and I feel they represent a lot of general users.

 

Excuse me for not validating the popular theme. However, if there is some kind of research that points one way or another, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

 

 

No, I am asking for someone to provide evidence that people aren't interested in swapping an internal HDD. Everyone just keeps saying "Oh, no one is interested in that" or "most people aren't tech-savvy enough to do it" without providing any evidence that's the case. Your personal experience is minute when you consider the tens of millions of (potential) console owners. Even if only 10% of users weren't interested in that feature that would be millions of customers, but the fact is we don't know what percentage would like that feature.



#127 trooper11

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:24

The Xbox fanboys (won't mention names - you know who you are) invaded the thread because the Xbox's internal cannot be changed and they're jealous, therefore they are attempting to justify the move by saying external is better than changing the internal.

 

How somebody could write that not being able to change a hard drive is better than being able to change it is beyond me.

 

 

Yeah, that stuff is ridiculous. So many threads get killed by 'pro ms' and 'anti ms'  arguments.

 

No one should justify this stuff. It isn't even that big of a deal.  MS and Sony didn't make their choices to spite us or out of some emotion. Regarding internal vs external, the advantages for both are clear. The rest is your choice.

 

You guys argue and it makes it impossible to talk about these things. I'd like to know more about the ps4's external support for instance. While I can see myself replacing my ps4 hdd like I did the ps3, if I can use say a 4tb external as well in the same way as the X1 can, then all the better.


No, I am asking for someone to provide evidence that people aren't interested in swapping an internal HDD. Everyone just keeps saying "Oh, no one is interested in that" or "most people aren't tech-savvy enough to do it" without providing any evidence that's the case. Your personal experience is minute when you consider the tens of millions of (potential) console owners. Even if only 10% of users weren't interested in that feature that would be millions of customers, but the fact is we don't know what percentage would like that feature.

 

Fair enough, but that means we don't know in general. It doesn't mean the opposite is true either. I have seen people argue that is a feature in high demand.

 

Since we have no real info, I don't think anyone should be arguing the point.



#128 compl3x

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:07

We don't know either way. I can only speak for myself and say that I personally like the feature.

 

The only point I would make in favour of upgradable HDDs is that both current-gen systems allow it (although I think only one allows it properly) so it is entirely doable with seemingly no inconvenience to the manufacturers. I cannot imagine that it would take to much effort from MS/Sony engineers to allow upgradable HDDs.

 

This comes down to Sony offering a feature MS isn't so people have to defend MS's position to the death.

 

I also find it amusing that people using the "some users aren't tech-savvy enough to upgrade their internal HDDs" don't seem to be applying that logic to the fact the same people who can't upgrade mightn't know the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0. If you connect a USB 2.0 drive to your X1 you're only going to get 2.0 speeds which undoubtedly will affect gameplay.

 

I can see a lot of user connecting some old ext. HDD to their system and then whining about slow loading times. Probably not straight after launch, but as time goes on and that internal HDD fills up because of mandatory game installs and such I can see it happening.



#129 +warwagon

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:16

This is a good thing!

 

/thread



#130 trooper11

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 17:52

We don't know either way. I can only speak for myself and say that I personally like the feature.

 

The only point I would make in favour of upgradable HDDs is that both current-gen systems allow it (although I think only one allows it properly) so it is entirely doable with seemingly no inconvenience to the manufacturers. I cannot imagine that it would take to much effort from MS/Sony engineers to allow upgradable HDDs.

 

 

 

Exactly, your giving your opinion based on your own experience, that's all I was doing. I happen to like and want the feature. Its too bad MS doesn't follow suit. Its funny how people blow up such a small feature.

 

Why do you think MS doesn't offer that? Like you said they did it this gen. It can't be about getting money from us since they allow us to use any external, not something proprietary. I don't think anyone considers it a deal breaker feature, but it would have been nice for those of us wanting it.

 

 

 

This comes down to Sony offering a feature MS isn't so people have to defend MS's position to the death.

 

I also find it amusing that people using the "some users aren't tech-savvy enough to upgrade their internal HDDs" don't seem to be applying that logic to the fact the same people who can't upgrade mightn't know the difference between USB 2.0 and 3.0. If you connect a USB 2.0 drive to your X1 you're only going to get 2.0 speeds which undoubtedly will affect gameplay.

 

I can see a lot of user connecting some old ext. HDD to their system and then whining about slow loading times. Probably not straight after launch, but as time goes on and that internal HDD fills up because of mandatory game installs and such I can see it happening.

 

 

Regarding the question of external usage, I would like to know if using usb 3.0 results in a poorer performance vs sata 3. It seems like everyone is dancing around that for some reason. I don't care what 'stupid' people do, this is about what I will do.

 

The reason I care is that I'd like the option to use a 4tb drive with my ps4, but that means I must use an external. Since there is no info from Sony on how externals work, I have no idea if I can use it just like an internal drive.



#131 compl3x

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:07

Exactly, your giving your opinion based on your own experience, that's all I was doing. 

 

Correct. But people on here are saying the reason why MS wouldn't bother with allowing upgrading internal HDDs is because so few people want it. How do they know so few people don't want it? I thought maybe there was some survey or data which was done which asked consumers about things like this which could corroborate this assertion.

 

 

Regarding the question of external usage, I would like to know if using usb 3.0 results in a poorer performance vs sata 3. It seems like everyone is dancing around that for some reason. I don't care what 'stupid' people do, this is about what I will do.

 

The reason I care is that I'd like the option to use a 4tb drive with my ps4, but that means I must use an external. Since there is no info from Sony on how externals work, I have no idea if I can use it just like an internal drive.

 

The speeds are 5 GB/s USB 3.0 and 6 GB/s SATA III (theoretical) but that mightn't be the only factor which would impact on performance. Maybe the controller in the ext. HDD would impact if it is poor quality (I know some cheaper enclosures have cheap controllers)? Or the drive speed? If you use those WD Green drives which alternate the RPM based on load it might affect performance. If you use a VelociRaptor @ 10,00 RPM it would be fine, but they aren't cheap drives. Even the WD blacks are pretty expensive (for 4TBs). Plus I would want to use an AC powered ext. HDD if I was connecting it to a console to store and run games from. I wouldn't want it powered from the USB port.

 

 

As far as I know, unless new info has come out, external drives for the PS4 won't allow game installs. You can put all of your multimedia content on it but no game installs. 



#132 BajiRav

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:10

Correct. But people on here are saying the reason why MS wouldn't bother with allowing upgrading internal HDDs is because so few people want it. How do they know so few people don't want it? I thought maybe there was some survey or data which was done which asked consumers about things like this which could corroborate this assertion.

Market research, attachment rate for X360, stats for X360 users. I am sure they went over those numbers. The reason they removed it might be something else though.

#133 compl3x

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:51

Can we see the research? If not, it is purely speculation. Speculation is fine, as long as you admit it is speculation, not passing it off as fact or self-evident.

 

It would be interesting to know just how many people upgraded their HDDs or would like the feature.



#134 BajiRav

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:27

Can we see the research? If not, it is purely speculation. Speculation is fine, as long as you admit it is speculation, not passing it off as fact or self-evident.

 

It would be interesting to know just how many people upgraded their HDDs or would like the feature.

It's not speculation, whatever I post on these forums - consider it as official MIcrosoft version.

 

 

seriously? Do you really want every forum post here come with a disclaimer! My post made it pretty clear that I was guessing like most people around here.

 

No, we can't see the research but at least I have participated in many Xbox surveys over the years and besides those are standard tools. It's possible that Microsoft used one or all of them.

 

I kind of upgraded my Xbox 360 HDD once when I moved from Elite (120GB) to S(250GB) but that change was mostly for noise not space.



#135 compl3x

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:38

When one of the merry band of MS apologists comes skipping into a topic telling us why MS made a decision without any evidence, it's kind of frustrating.