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XBOX One will work without Kinect plugged in


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#181 ahhell

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:56

DrunknMunky, on 17 Aug 2013 - 08:48, said:

Complete nonsense :sleep: The whole post, but particularly the part I've made bold.

 

Totally agree with you.  Hard to take him serious in the slightest when he's still going on about that NSA/spy cam bull ######.




#182 Showan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 14:00

Complete nonsense :sleep: The whole post, but particularly the part I've made bold.


How is this non-sense? Do explain. Most games will be on all next gen consoles (& now gen as well).

It was made very clear that console and camera were built from ground up together.

That means that, if anyone has a problem with the camera, they also have a problem with the system.

Kinect means that the Xbox can say I'm different than anything else out there. Hate it or love it there isn't another like me.

#183 trooper11

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 17:37

Here is a pattern I'm seeing:

 

Anyone that is not interested in Kinect is against bundling

 

Anyone that is interested in Kinect is for bundling

 

The above make since obviously, no one that is not interested wants to pay for it and anyone that is wants to see it widely adopted.

 

 

What I don't get is why some are going nuts trying to prove that bundling would be bad for Kinect?  I have yet to see any credible evidence posted, just a bunch of feelings and claims. 

 

 

Bundling is pointless though.  With the ability to disconnect Kinect, it becomes useless to bundle the accessory.  Why?  Developers will need get usage stats.  If X Xbox Ones are sold and only 10% (or some low percentage) are have ever used Kinect, developers will not waste their time.  No matter if it is bundled.  The people that do not want Kinect are not going to buy games that require Kinect (I know I won't).

 

So bundling is a useless thing from a developers point of view.  

 

......

 

Selling after the fact gives developers a much more guarantee than a bundle.  Why?  Well the people that actually purchase Kinect separately are USUALLY ones that WANT the device.  Now there will be some that would buy it and hate it.  But bundling it is worse in this area.

 

 

Perfect example of my point. 

 

Explain to me how ensuring that every X1 buyer has access to Kinect is worse for a developer than having it separate.  You are literally arguing that all users will refuse to plug it in even if there is content that they see as good. 

 

I just don't get it.  Developers will ignore Kinect more if its bundled because people can unplug it?  You make it sound like that if someone unplugs Kinect, they will refuse to EVER plug it in even if there are games released that they want to play.  There are people here that claim they are willing to use Kinect if there is content that proves its worth.  That should tell you right there that there will be cases of users unplugging the device UNTIL content comes along.

 

There are plenty of examples of bundled add-ons doing better then as optional purchases, especially when they are expensive on their own.  I'm talking about from a developers usage stand point.

 

 

I'm sorry, I just don't see the reason why this point is so argued.  How about making the argument that it will hurt X1 sales, or that you think MS needs to unbundle it in order to match Sony's pricing?

 

 

I really don't think this is about whether bundling is good or not, I believe it boils down to a few statements:

 

1.  Some believe that bundling Kinect will harm the X1 (or wont)

2.  Some believe that bundling is worse than optional add-on for developers

3.  Some believe that bundling is the best chance for developer support

4.  Some people aren't interested in Kinect, some are

 

 

 

If MS unbundles Kinect, then great for those that aren't interested in it.  It will mean a cheaper X1 and less to argue about.  While I am interested in the tech, I really don't care if it stays or goes.



#184 xWhiplash

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 23:35

Not accurate - just knowing that everyone has one is enough because if a game requires it for anything, you have to plug it in to play it. Its no different than when it had to be plugged in all the time really.

 

Bundling it is not a valid statistic.  Usage stats are valid.  How come you guys do not see that?

 

If half the people never take Kinect out of the box, developers are getting their hopes up for nothing.  As a developer, or rather the guy that makes the financial decision, you develop for what is BEING USED.  Bundling it does NOTHING to developers because NOW they cannot GUARANTEE that Kinect will be plugged in.

 

You would really spend thousands or millions developing for Kinect JUST FROM the sales statistic?  No.  Again.  You use USAGE STATISTICS.  100 million Xbox Ones are sold.  GREAT.  But when you are getting ready to make your game, you need to ask how many are actually USING Kinect.  You do this so you don't waste money.  This is what developers and the financial guys use when making decisions.  There are still games being coded in Direct X 9 (some games do include some Direct X 10/11 features).  WHY?  Because it is the most used.  There are still programs being coded that work with Windows XP (although the numbers are decreasing since support is about to end).  WHY?  Because it has a high marketshare still.  Just a few years ago, web developers were still developing with IE6 in mind.  WHY?  Because it was still popular a few years ago.  

 

Developers have always used marketshare and usage stats.  Sales stats do not do ANYTHING for the developers.  Did Joe Somebody throw out his Kinect because he has not used it in a year?  Maybe.  Usage stats will tell you that.

 

Therefore, Sales stats are useless for Kinect development.

 

 

Here is a pattern I'm seeing:

 

Anyone that is not interested in Kinect is against bundling

 

Anyone that is interested in Kinect is for bundling

 

The above make since obviously, no one that is not interested wants to pay for it and anyone that is wants to see it widely adopted.

 

 

What I don't get is why some are going nuts trying to prove that bundling would be bad for Kinect?  I have yet to see any credible evidence posted, just a bunch of feelings and claims. 

 

 

 

 

Perfect example of my point. 

 

Explain to me how ensuring that every X1 buyer has access to Kinect is worse for a developer than having it separate.  You are literally arguing that all users will refuse to plug it in even if there is content that they see as good. 

 

I just don't get it.  Developers will ignore Kinect more if its bundled because people can unplug it?  You make it sound like that if someone unplugs Kinect, they will refuse to EVER plug it in even if there are games released that they want to play.  There are people here that claim they are willing to use Kinect if there is content that proves its worth.  That should tell you right there that there will be cases of users unplugging the device UNTIL content comes along.

 

There are plenty of examples of bundled add-ons doing better then as optional purchases, especially when they are expensive on their own.  I'm talking about from a developers usage stand point.

 

 

I'm sorry, I just don't see the reason why this point is so argued.  How about making the argument that it will hurt X1 sales, or that you think MS needs to unbundle it in order to match Sony's pricing?

 

 

I really don't think this is about whether bundling is good or not, I believe it boils down to a few statements:

 

1.  Some believe that bundling Kinect will harm the X1 (or wont)

2.  Some believe that bundling is worse than optional add-on for developers

3.  Some believe that bundling is the best chance for developer support

4.  Some people aren't interested in Kinect, some are

 

 

 

If MS unbundles Kinect, then great for those that aren't interested in it.  It will mean a cheaper X1 and less to argue about.  While I am interested in the tech, I really don't care if it stays or goes.

 
But Kinect being bundled is a GUARANTEE....100% GUARANTEE that of ALL the Xbox Ones sold, they ALL STILL have Kinect?  They are ALL interested in using Kinect?  Again, developers do not know if Joe Somebody threw out his Kinect.  He very well could have.  It could have been sitting for a year gathering dust and when he had to clean out his junk, he threw it away.
 
Usage stats (depending on how current they are) give a 100% guarantee on the CURRENT situation.
 
This is what developers think of.  As a developer, I look at usage stats and marketshare.  For example, most of my hard work is getting my program working on traditional desktop instead of focusing on the new Modern UI Application.  Why?  I can get a bigger audience.  Most of my hard work for websites still target at LEAST IE 8.  Why?  That is the latest you can get for Windows XP and the one provided with Windows 7 so I still target it.


#185 +imachip

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 00:00

Hmm I think you make sense but I don't agree it'll affect the result (I think it's an overstatement).  Most people will plug it in and leave it connected because it enhances both the media and the game experience.

 

I also disagree with your point that it's a useless statistic.  If it was so, why would MS bother bundling at all...  Most people such as myself are buying the X1 to take advantage of the sensor otherwise I wouldn't spend a fair bit more on a console that's less speedy than the PS4.

 

In the end, it's the games/applications that will make or break it (esp. a killer app/game).  MS has bundled the h/w and it's up to the developers to sell it to the masses.

 

p.s. 'bolding words' doesn't make your point anymore valid.



#186 Zedox

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 00:38

This whole thing wouldn't be an issue with people if the Xbox One cost the same amount as the PS4. The people that don't want it is because they want it cheaper or as much as the other console. If they were priced the same, people will see the value of the X1 as more because they get more. It's really that simple.

 

I'm pretty sure when there's a game that utilizes the Kinect in a way that makes sense and is awesome, those people who will keep the Kinect in the box will start dusting it off.



#187 GotBored

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:30

This whole thing wouldn't be an issue with people if the Xbox One cost the same amount as the PS4. The people that don't want it is because they want it cheaper or as much as the other console. If they were priced the same, people will see the value of the X1 as more because they get more. It's really that simple.

 

I'm pretty sure when there's a game that utilizes the Kinect in a way that makes sense and is awesome, those people who will keep the Kinect in the box will start dusting it off.

 

Yes price is a major factor and bundling the kinect when some people do not want it will affect sales. I personally like the kinect but even then PS4 sells for $400 and the PS Eye is $60 (Total Cost $460) but the Xbox One is $500 bundled.

 

I've read the articles which said the Kinect R&D and manufacturing costs almost matched that of the console itself which explains why its more pricey with the bundle and I am not arguing that the Kinect seems significantly better but to the general customer they will see this price difference and consider the PS4 the better deal.



#188 trooper11

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:38

 

But Kinect being bundled is a GUARANTEE....100% GUARANTEE that of ALL the Xbox Ones sold, they ALL STILL have Kinect?  They are ALL interested in using Kinect?  Again, developers do not know if Joe Somebody threw out his Kinect.  He very well could have.  It could have been sitting for a year gathering dust and when he had to clean out his junk, he threw it away.
 
Usage stats (depending on how current they are) give a 100% guarantee on the CURRENT situation.
 
This is what developers think of.  As a developer, I look at usage stats and marketshare.  For example, most of my hard work is getting my program working on traditional desktop instead of focusing on the new Modern UI Application.  Why?  I can get a bigger audience.  Most of my hard work for websites still target at LEAST IE 8.  Why?  That is the latest you can get for Windows XP and the one provided with Windows 7 so I still target it.

 

 

 

Of course bundling doesn't guarantee 100% usage, but that's not the point.  The point is that it guarantees access for 100% of X1 owners.

 

You talk about following usage states and not the bundled number as a developer.  How in the world are you going to get usage stats for Kinect unless there is content making use of it?  Even if there is content, there is no mechanism that I'm aware of to track it.  Will a developer have information on how many are using the hybrid functions with a  controller or just when its used as the sole control?  It just seems unreliable.

 

If Kinect is bundled, the most important thing to a developer would be the X1 sales and usage stats for the console itself in my opinion.  It then becomes a feature of the console, something a dev could leverage to stand out against the other gaming dev competition perhaps.

 

Again, I think the battle isn't about bundling as much as it is whether Kinect is something you want to use or not. Not to mention discussions about its affect on X1 one sales and its price.

 

This whole thing wouldn't be an issue with people if the Xbox One cost the same amount as the PS4. The people that don't want it is because they want it cheaper or as much as the other console. If they were priced the same, people will see the value of the X1 as more because they get more. It's really that simple.

 

I'm pretty sure when there's a game that utilizes the Kinect in a way that makes sense and is awesome, those people who will keep the Kinect in the box will start dusting it off.

 

 

Well said, that is exactly how I feel about it.

 

If the price were the same, there would be less issue with it.

 

Although I would guess that some still would not be happy.  Those that have no interest in the concepts around Kinect will still feel like its being forced on them.



#189 trooper11

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:46

Yes price is a major factor and bundling the kinect when some people do not want it will affect sales. I personally like the kinect but even then PS4 sells for $400 and the PS Eye is $60 (Total Cost $460) but the Xbox One is $500 bundled.

 

I've read the articles which said the Kinect R&D and manufacturing costs almost matched that of the console itself which explains why its more pricey with the bundle and I am not arguing that the Kinect seems significantly better but to the general customer they will see this price difference and consider the PS4 the better deal.

 

Its a gamble, no doubt.

 

If it is going to affect sells negatively, will it be enough to be a problem for the X1?

 

We really don't know how its going to play out.  Its just as likely that both consoles are sold out or low stock for quite sometime after launch.  Content may come out that makes use of Kinect before there is a chance for the damage to register in a meaningful way.

 

Then again, content might not come and it could be a big issue.  I'm not sure how to tell what will happen.  Heck, we don't even know how MS plans to market the system.  If Kinect is going to be marketed as just another feature of the system, something that does more then just work with games, maybe they can sneak by without a bunch of Kinect-only titles.

 

I have no idea what MS has planned, but right now it seems like they really want Kinect to become just another part of the X1 versus a platform all its own.  Remember back when the first Kinect launched?  MS said that they were treating it like its own platform and it showed in how it was marketed, the games for it, and the attention at E3, etc.  But now its different, MS is no longer talking like that, and the emphasis is completely different.  Where before it was out front, on its own, now its behind the scenes almost, just another feature of the console.



#190 Zedox

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:04

The Kinect bundling won't matter in the long run. These consoles will sell as always and once they reach mass market price points, they'll sell even more. Rinse and repeat.



#191 compl3x

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:34

Here is my guess: Most people will keep it kinected because it came with the system. There will be a minority (tin foil types etc) who will bitch and moan about it and keep it in a closet/sell it "on principle".

99% will use it and rest 1% won't matter in the big picture.

 

 

Who will they sell it to? Everyone will already have one because they have no choice. Maybe a few can offload them on eBay to replace broken ones, I suppose.



#192 Torolol

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 13:52

Who will they sell it to? Everyone will already have one because they have no choice. Maybe a few can offload them on eBay to replace broken ones, I suppose.

well, if someone figured how to make the Kinect works on non-XBox One platform and publish the how-to, it might creates an after sales market for kinect.



#193 Andrew

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 16:04

Of course bundling doesn't guarantee 100% usage, but that's not the point.  The point is that it guarantees access for 100% of X1 owners.

 

You talk about following usage states and not the bundled number as a developer.  How in the world are you going to get usage stats for Kinect unless there is content making use of it?  Even if there is content, there is no mechanism that I'm aware of to track it.  Will a developer have information on how many are using the hybrid functions with a  controller or just when its used as the sole control?  It just seems unreliable.

 

If Kinect is bundled, the most important thing to a developer would be the X1 sales and usage stats for the console itself in my opinion.  It then becomes a feature of the console, something a dev could leverage to stand out against the other gaming dev competition perhaps.

 

Again, I think the battle isn't about bundling as much as it is whether Kinect is something you want to use or not. Not to mention discussions about its affect on X1 one sales and its price.

 

 

 

Well said, that is exactly how I feel about it.

 

If the price were the same, there would be less issue with it.

 

Although I would guess that some still would not be happy.  Those that have no interest in the concepts around Kinect will still feel like its being forced on them.

 

That information is 100% without a doubt tracked by Microsoft. Everything you do on their platform or console is recorded by them (no I'm not hinting at NSA BS here). Certainly some developers know statistics because Cliff B has spoke of them. They are probably kept under NDA though, so we'll never hear specifics.



#194 trooper11

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 17:52

That information is 100% without a doubt tracked by Microsoft. Everything you do on their platform or console is recorded by them (no I'm not hinting at NSA BS here). Certainly some developers know statistics because Cliff B has spoke of them. They are probably kept under NDA though, so we'll never hear specifics.

 

 

Maybe so, but I still think that does not invalidate the idea that having something bundled is better for the developer than something that is not. 

 

Since we have no idea what MS can or does track, its just speculation at this point.  We can assume they track everything I guess.



#195 HyperTallih

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 17:57

ukE6PLn.jpg

Indeed. One of the reason that i don't buy a Xbox one.