The Walls of Xbox Live

[Skiver Veteran]

I'm proving that the paywall makes the 360 utterly useless.

I'm not entirely sure how you are proving that the 360 is useless.

 

I do pay for Gold, but i don't use IE/Netflix and is pretty much a pure gaming device. I get by with plenty single player games, my main choice of games at the moment is F1 2012 and Fable 3, whilst I believe there are MP elements to both of those I very rarely use them. The 360 may be a useless device to you, but unless i've missed something here, that's purely your view on it and what you want to get out of it, which isnt much.

 

Please, If I am missing something let me know but the 360 is my main source of gaming (I own a PS3, Wii and my laptop is ok for some games) so it's not like it's my only source.

[MorganX]

Sorry I missed your post. Well that is the worst situation, not having any games to want to pay for Gold for but not being able to use it as a media box. The thing is though, I bet you have a million devices hooked to your TV which can run it. 

 

Just one, PS3, lol. But my next TV upgrade will have it in the TV. That's kind of what highlights what MS is doing. Not the biggest deal, but if you're in a situation to "realize" it, it's like a nagging itch.

[xWhiplash]

IMO you're not really proving anything here... you don't NEED to pay for gold because you have other devices that achieve it. I don't think many here are defening MS's choice to put it behind a paywall, we are just trying to get the point across that they have been doing this for a long time, people have other devices that can allow you to get access to Netflix on your TV so is there really any need for the outrage that seems to be going on at the moment.

 

I am not trying to suggest this is what you personally are doing nor anyone else in this thread, but at the moment when people complain about things that really don't affect them, it just seems like another pointless MS bashing thread. MS are evil because of <insert random complaint of the day> and more than usual it's typically because PS3/4 does it better.

I think the person you were quoting's point was more around, no-body is going to spend the money it costs for an XB1 because they WANT the device for netflix when there are so many (as your post proves) other cheaper ways to achieve it. I honestly believe that out of those who want an XB1 for games, don't want gold and would like to use the XB1 for Netflix because they have no other media device that can connect to the TV will be very far and few between. That may be narrow minded but I think in todays society there are just far too many alternate devices out there that alot of people own. I won't believe the, I can't afford lots of fancy devices BS either because those same people won't be able to afford a service like Netflix either.... IMO.

 

But that is the point.  What if ALL you have for Netflix capability is the Xbox?  

 

Why is it okay for Microsoft to put it behind a pay wall?  NO other device requires an extra payment.  But it is okay for Microsoft to do such a thing?

 

Also, will you guys STOP with the "Paying X for a console JUST to watch netflix" argument?  Ever heard of playing single player?  The ONLY online functionality I want from Gold is Netflix.  

[trooper11]

But that is the point.  What if ALL you have for Netflix capability is the Xbox?  

 

Why is it okay for Microsoft to put it behind a pay wall?  NO other device requires an extra payment.  But it is okay for Microsoft to do such a thing?

 

Also, will you guys STOP with the "Paying X for a console JUST to watch netflix" argument?  Ever heard of playing single player?  The ONLY online functionality I want from Gold is Netflix.  

 

 

Netflix should not be behind the paywall.  That would only be acceptable if MS was going to pay for a Netflix subscription or offer some kind of discount.

[Lord Method Man]

 

Also, will you guys STOP with the "Paying X for a console JUST to watch netflix" argument?  Ever heard of playing single player?  The ONLY online functionality I want from Gold is Netflix.  

 

Yeah its getting quite tired.

 

I bought the 360 for single player games, because online gaming on a console = ROFLMAO

 

Being able to use Netflix, IE, and HBO Go on it would be nice, but putting those things behind a paywall is ridiculous and not something I'm going to pay for. I'm not really complaining, I can get by fine without it thanks to every other device manufacturer on the planet not having the same asinine policies that Microsoft does.

 

Seriously guys. A paywall to use a web browser. Pull your heads out of your apologist rear ends for one second and think about how stupid that is.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Why is there a massive uproar about it now? It was launched FIVE YEARS AGO. Surely there should of been mass protests and people trying to get MS to 180 on it up to this point? No people got on with their lives because it effects no-one.

 

Prime example of people complaining about anything they can.

 

Actually, had you been a member of Neowin in 2007/8 you would have seen we had very similar discussions back then too. There was also a lot of upset that MS paid to keep it exclusive too.

 

The reason it is brought back up now is because the next-gen is about to start. Not really a hard concept to grasp. It's going to be a selling point for the PS4 so it's in MS's best interest to match it.

[Showan]

Actually, had you been a member of Neowin in 2007/8 you would have seen we had very similar discussions back then too. There was also a lot of upset that MS paid to keep it exclusive too.

 

The reason it is brought back up now is because the next-gen is about to start. Not really a hard concept to grasp. It's going to be a selling point for the PS4 so it's in MS's best interest to match it.

I see your point in Live trying to match. But there is really no point as those 'bonus' features don't hamper the core gameplay that 'gamers' only want. So pay wall bonus features shouldn't really matter if behind a pay wall or not.

To me personally, LIVE is the standard for online community on game consoles. And the new Xbox Live make me will make it an even higher standard.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I see your point in Live trying to match. But there is really no point as those 'bonus' features don't hamper the core gameplay that 'gamers' only want. So pay wall bonus features shouldn't really matter if behind a pay wall or not.

To me personally, LIVE is the standard for online community on game consoles. And the new Xbox Live make me will make it an even higher standard.

 

Showan, I'm really not interested in your little trolling escapade of trying to make people say they care about tv and movies as well as gaming. Nobody said they weren't interested in those. What are you trying to achieve chasing people with the same comment all day?

 

Can you please understand for the last time, the outcry from people about Microsoft's "TV TV TV, sports sports sports!" wasn't because of their inclusion in the reveal, it was their dominance over anything else they had to say. It doesn't matter that they told us before hand that games were going to be at E3 or this event wasn't for games. They were speaking to a demographic the majority of the time who weren't even tuning to watch it. The number 1 thing they have to do is appeal to gamers before anything else and that is why the reveal was such a flop and caused so much negative press.

 

Are you even reading back anything you type and asking yourself if it makes sense?

 

But there is really no point as those 'bonus' features don't hamper the core gameplay that 'gamers' only want.

 

Bonus features? Hamper core gameplay? What are you on about?! We're talking about tv and movies :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

And the new Xbox Live make me will make it an even higher standard.

 

What?!

 

The topic has been beaten to death. Let it go! You're the only one who keeps bringing the topic up.

[Showan]

Showan, I'm really not interested in your little trolling escapade of trying to make people say they care about tv and movies as well as gaming. Nobody said they weren't interested in those. What are you trying to achieve chasing people with the same comment all day?

Can you please understand for the last time, the outcry from people about Microsoft's "TV TV TV, sports sports sports!" wasn't because of their inclusion in the reveal, it was their dominance over anything else they had to say. It doesn't matter that they told us before hand that games were going to be at E3 or this event wasn't for games. They were speaking to a demographic the majority of the time who weren't even tuning to watch it. The number 1 thing they have to do is appeal to gamers before anything else and that is why the reveal was such a flop and caused so much negative press.

Are you even reading back anything you type and asking yourself if it makes sense?

Bonus features? Hamper core gameplay? What are you on about?! We're talking about tv and movies :blink: :blink: :blink:

What?!

The topic has been beaten to death. Let it go! You're the only one who keeps bringing the topic up.

"Appeal to gamers first" is beating a dead horse. Just like my harping on about "real gamers" is beating the dead horse. They are both in the same boat. Think about it. If a company says the reveal isn't about the games and saving the games for a games event. Why can so called "gamers" accept that be patient and let it go. And wait for E3. They didn't even have to do a reveal, with E3 being right around the corner. Why not get all of the 'non gaming' stuff out of the way, so E3 can be about, well games.

There have been no lies or deception. So called core gamers don't spend most of their time gaming. Nor are we "core gamers" the majority (yep I'm a core gamer too). But "core, real, gamers" want something to harp on about the reveal and can't let it go.

Everybody said they don't care about tv,tv,tv etc. go look on this very site since the reveal (as well as kotaku, ign, twitter, etc)

Everybody moaned about it. "I don't care about that crap, I just want to game" spread through out the Internet.

At the end of it all... My harping on, others harping on, is all relative.

[spenser.d]

Showan, I'm really not interested in your little trolling escapade of trying to make people say they care about tv and movies as well as gaming. Nobody said they weren't interested in those. What are you trying to achieve chasing people with the same comment all day?

Can you please understand for the last time, the outcry from people about Microsoft's "TV TV TV, sports sports sports!" wasn't because of their inclusion in the reveal, it was their dominance over anything else they had to say. It doesn't matter that they told us before hand that games were going to be at E3 or this event wasn't for games. They were speaking to a demographic the majority of the time who weren't even tuning to watch it. The number 1 thing they have to do is appeal to gamers before anything else and that is why the reveal was such a flop and caused so much negative press.

Are you even reading back anything you type and asking yourself if it makes sense?

Bonus features? Hamper core gameplay? What are you on about?! We're talking about tv and movies :blink: :blink: :blink:

What?!

The topic has been beaten to death. Let it go! You're the only one who keeps bringing the topic up.

I hope you see the irony in your post.

[BajiRav]

Actually, had you been a member of Neowin in 2007/8 you would have seen we had very similar discussions back then too. There was also a lot of upset that MS paid to keep it exclusive too.

 

The reason it is brought back up now is because the next-gen is about to start. Not really a hard concept to grasp. It's going to be a selling point for the PS4 so it's in MS's best interest to match it.

If we have to apply that logic, there should be a lot more pressure on Sony/PS4 to get their features + services right from the start.

 

IIRC this is how last gen played out in Xbox 360's favor and looks to be similar this time as well

- More games at launch ("PS3 has no games") : check

- Better online service at launch : check (but close)

- Better features at launch : check

- PS developers struggling with games : check

- Better controller* : check

 

*Although PS4 controller is apparently improved a lot, XB1 controller is still better. This is what I am reading more and more from people who had some hands on time.

[MorganX]

If we have to apply that logic, there should be a lot more pressure on Sony/PS4 to get their features + services right from the start.

 

IIRC this is how last gen played out in Xbox 360's favor and looks to be similar this time as well

- More games at launch ("PS3 has no games") : check

- Better online service at launch : check (but close)

- Better features at launch : check

- PS developers struggling with games : check

- Better controller* : check

 

*Although PS4 controller is apparently improved a lot, XB1 controller is still better. This is what I am reading more and more from people who had some hands on time.

 

I agree for the most part. Particularly with Xbox Controller. It 'is almost perfect. MS nailed it. Hopefully the new one doesn't take any steps backwards.

 

As for the online services being close, I disagree. XBL as an online service is head and shoulders above IMO. Of course, being able to multiplayer for free on PSN nullifies everything else for most gamers.

 

Also as for games, PS4 will have Naughty Dog. A few great games nullify a bunch of mediocre ones. Naughty Dog is as good as it gets. PS4 will probably also have more diverse games. XBox is still FPS dominated and for someone like me who does not care for FPS', I usually find more games I want to play on the Playstation side. But I'm really hoping the PC architecture of both leads to more PC games, preferable running under XBox for Windows.

[coresx]

Microsoft are looking to expand with Xbox One but with a Gold subscription I'm not sure who they are aiming for. The broader demographic already has many devices for these media streaming services and without a second subscription. A likely feature in most homes now and in the near future, a Smart TV with built in apps without the need for another box under the TV to access Netflix, Skype etc.

 

Microsoft want to reach out beyond gamers with the media capabilites of Xbox One but the only people who will probably pay for Gold are gamers so nothing really changes for Microsoft. They still have a dedicated base of gamers who play online and watch some media on the side.

 

Basically Kinect has to be stellar for media, original programming has to stellar, consistent and Xbox One needs to be way cheaper for non gamers to jump on board in any significant numbers otherwise they will just repeat or do worse than the Xbox 360 which is okay but the market might be flooded with competitors and all it takes is for one to get it right and your marketshare disappears fast.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

If we have to apply that logic, there should be a lot more pressure on Sony/PS4 to get their features + services right from the start.

 

IIRC this is how last gen played out in Xbox 360's favor and looks to be similar this time as well

- More games at launch ("PS3 has no games") : check

- Better online service at launch : check (but close)

- Better features at launch : check

- PS developers struggling with games : check

- Better controller* : check

 

*Although PS4 controller is apparently improved a lot, XB1 controller is still better. This is what I am reading more and more from people who had some hands on time.

 

Sony is under a lot of pressure. I can't even remember who it was I had the discussion with the last few days but it's already an established fact Sony are deep in the red and need to sort their electronics business out. They're doing a lot right at the moment though and so far all the signs show they are going to improve the areas you've mentioned. PSN is not going to catch up to XBL any time soon, that's just fact. They joined the online business much later than Microsoft did and they haven't charged for it as long either.

 

The neither console has any games argument is nonsense so I'm not getting into it.

 

Better features/online services is subjective. Is XBL more mature in the quality? Sure, already covered that because MS have charged for it since 2002.

 

Better controller, again subjective. Personally I think the 360 controller is the holy grail but I don't like the look of the X1's. The rumble triggers sound cool but the overall shape I'm 50/50 until I hold it. I haven't liked the DS since I was much younger but some people swear by it and for them it's the holy grail. There is no "better", just what you prefer.

[Showan]

Look

I'm not trying to troll, disrespect anyone, or fight... That's not who I am.

But I do enjoy a debate and look at things from everyone's point of view.

I expect to be countered, when i state something. It just comes with the being on forums.,just as it does when you debate something face to face with someone

If anyone feels that I push it too far. I apologize.

[GotBored]

Look

I'm not trying to troll, disrespect anyone, or fight... That's not who I am.

But I do enjoy a debate and look at things from everyone's point of view.

I expect to be countered, when i state something. It just comes with the being on forums.,just as it does when you debate something face to face with someone

If anyone feels that I push it too far. I apologize.

 

That's the point, trolls post to get a rise out of someone (e.g an argument)

 

You can debate something logically but parroting the same thing over and over again when people have already addressed the issue is pointless.

 

I'm not singling you out Showan, I've seen countless threads where people try to start arguments against anything unfavorable about the Xbox One.

 

The Xbox One isn't the holy grail, it has its flaw as does everything else, instead of sugar-coating those flaws let the issues be discussed and move on because at the end of the day your not Bill Gates or Akio Morita and whichever console is seen as the better console and makes more sales isn't going to affect you.

[greenwizard88]

Anything that comes for free on an Apple TV should be free on the xbox. Until then I'm not spending any more money on the xbox brand, and will be buying a PS4.

[trooper11]

 

I'm not singling you out Showan, I've seen countless threads where people try to start arguments against anything unfavorable about the Xbox One.

 

The Xbox One isn't the holy grail, it has its flaw as does everything else, instead of sugar-coating those flaws let the issues be discussed and move on because at the end of the day your not Bill Gates or Akio Morita and whichever console is seen as the better console and makes more sales isn't going to affect you.

 

 

Yeah there are plenty of trolls that try to attack the X1 or the PS4 for ridiculous reasons.  Its all over the internet.

 

As I've gotten older, I tolerate it less and less.  Some people get way too much enjoyment out of petty attacks.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

JFTR from my perspective I don't feel bullied or ganged up on. I've dealt with a lot worse on this forum before, you kiddos are a cakewalk :p :laugh: My break away from NW did me the world of good and I honestly have no interest in fighting over the stupid **** some of you seem to. You can play keyboard warriors amongst yourselves but you're not going to drag me into it. NeoDominik is right though that some parrot on about the same **** that only they seem to make an issue of or the stupid topics that incite more trolling/flaming.

 

I do find it hilarious that I have spent the last 10 years on this forum being called every Xbot name under the sun, but now I'm undecided on either console I'm somehow an X1 hater or Sony fanboy. Oh and that time I was accused of being someone else on Neogaf leading a second life. GG guys GG :laugh:

[HyperTallih]

Microsoft wants money... don't know why microsoft is doing this.

[srbeen]

Glad I'm not an american, those features like hulu and a few others the US gets just don't exist behind that gold membership fee.

[Jeston Veteran]

Thread Cleaned.

[spenser.d]

 

 

You can debate something logically but parroting the same thing over and over again when people have already addressed the issue is pointless.

 

 

You should talk..

 

I've already stated that I don't really agree that Netflix or IE should be behind a paywall, but it's a business move that they are choosing to go with, and one that historically hasn't caused much of an issue in the market in the grand scheme of things.  Saying that MS shouldn't put Netflix (for example) behind a paywall because it's free elsewhere or because you're already paying for Netflix is not a great argument - they're making a gaming console.  They want gamers to buy it for gaming, and if the gamers choose to subscribe to Gold for their multiplayer experience, they get a bunch of extras.  They're not selling their console as a "buy this to watch Netflix and browse the internet" piece of hardware.  If you only like single player gaming, then you'll have to decide if you want Gold for the other features or not, and if Xbox is right for you.  They aren't promising that you can just do all these extra things out of the box and I really don't see why there should be an expectation of it.

 

Would it be nice if they were free?  Sure.  Is Microsoft the devil for putting those features behind Gold? Not by a longshot.

[JustGeorge]

I see no legitimate reason to require a Gold account for Netflix and Hulu, other than to make the Gold sales pitch seem sweeter. They're fully aware that if both services were available without a Gold account, most would not bother paying. Microsoft incurs no maintenance/upkeep fees for either service. They simply charge for it because most of you radical Steam sale's model fundamentalists love to throw money at companies for false ownership in return.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

You should talk..

 

I've already stated that I don't really agree that Netflix or IE should be behind a paywall, but it's a business move that they are choosing to go with, and one that historically hasn't caused much of an issue in the market in the grand scheme of things.  Saying that MS shouldn't put Netflix (for example) behind a paywall because it's free elsewhere or because you're already paying for Netflix is not a great argument - they're making a gaming console.  They want gamers to buy it for gaming, and if the gamers choose to subscribe to Gold for their multiplayer experience, they get a bunch of extras.  They're not selling their console as a "buy this to watch Netflix and browse the internet" piece of hardware.  If you only like single player gaming, then you'll have to decide if you want Gold for the other features or not, and if Xbox is right for you.  They aren't promising that you can just do all these extra things out of the box and I really don't see why there should be an expectation of it.

 

Would it be nice if they were free?  Sure.  Is Microsoft the devil for putting those features behind Gold? Not by a longshot.

 

Well they are though aren't they...That was Microsoft's aim from the very beginning entering the console business. They didn't want Sony to have the living room all to themselves. It's well documented enough, not sure why you're trying to suggest otherwise. Microsoft have always wanted more than gaming and HTPCs aren't the most glamorous way to achieve it. Step in Xbox, 360 and now X1.

 

You do know that PS3 is the most popular Netflix capable device in the living room right? Microsoft love their claims to fame. I'm sure they'll change their mind soon enough.