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Would using a desktop PC as wifi repeater slow LAN traffic?


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#16 OP moeburn

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:57

"Now I gotta figure out why I'm not running in gigabit mode."

So your nic shows 100mbit?

 

Yes, it shows 100mbit there.

 

the cable quality may in some cases cause the equipment to only allow syncing at 100 though. 

I know I need to redo the cable between the first and second floor in my house since to much pulling and bending of it at to high angle caused it to only allow syncing at 100. 

 

I think I might be having the exact same issue.  When I was searching for the drivers for my NIC, I also found that they have an "ethernet cable quality tester" program designed for my NIC.  So I unplugged the router's power (because it doesn't work when there's a link established, but I left the ethernet cable plugged into the router, because otherwise the testing program showed "open/broken cable" for all 4 tests) and ran the test:

 

cable test while connected.png

 

Now this is a 75 foot cable, so it should be 22.86 metres.  Could someone well versed in ethernet and Cat5e and networking explain to me what these testing results mean?  From what I understand, 100mbit only uses 4 wires, so that's why I can still be using 100mbit connection while wires 4-5 are broken 16 metres away from my computer.  Also, I know that impedance means resistance, but what does "impedance mismatch" mean for me and my network?




#17 +BudMan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:19

"specifically isolates G devices on the network so they don't affect the speed of N devices. "

That is NOT what that says.. Where does it use the word isolate? And how exactly do you think it could do that.. Where is the actual full technical description of that check box from the maker? I can not seem to find it, and normally my google fu is quite good. Do you have a link?

Sorry don't care what its says it does.. It is NOT possible to isolate traffic on the same wire/wireless connection. Your 1 wireless radio can not talk to more than 1 client at time.. So how does it isolate them so they don't slow down the others traffic.

If your car can do 100mph, and some car gets in front of you that only goes 50.. How do you expect to do 100? Now when that car takes an exit you can do 100 again.. But your problem is you have cars that can only do 50 entering and leaving the road all the time -- so its not possible for you to do 100.. Unless you create 2 roads, one for slower cars G, and 1 for faster cars N.. This requires 2 radios..

I would suggest you do a test.. So only 1 N device connected to your network.. Do some speed tests, then connect a G device but not really doing anything with that setting on and off and do your speed tests again.. What do you see?

Now get your G device doing a file copy.. And then do your speed test again with N client, what speeds to you see then? ;)

#18 HawkMan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:48

I don't have any G devices and just assume this function does what it says on both this and my previous tomato powered 610.



#19 helpifIcan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:16

You said if you had another cable you would wire the laptop too. Why not just buy an inexpensive 4 port switch, connect the incoming cable to it and than a cable to your DT and one to the LT.

 

Easy peasy and full speed.

 

:D



#20 Azies

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 18:05

"but the cables are only 100mbit"

What?? And what cables are those? 1000Base-T was designed and in the spec to be able to run over cat5, there really is no such thing as a 100mbit cable.. Unless you got some really old cat 3 using 4 wires?

Dude just go by any ole wireless cheap ass $20 router and use it as an AP.

Here
http://www.pc-canada.../TL-WR740N.html

18.99 CDN, why would you spend time dicking around trying to make your desktop into AP? You think your performance sucks now, bridge in your interface with wireless watch the hit..

I would also look into why your not getting gig?? Any $2 Cat 5 or 5e cable is capable of gig so replace them if you think they are bad.. Its almost hard to buy only cat5 these days they are all 5e.. But walk into your local computer store to get robbed they are only a couple of bucks.

Here is 25 footer.. Which you prob don't need? for whole 5.50 CDN
http://www.cablesale...CNET5E-25B.html

 

Holy outdated tech shop....!



#21 grabageek

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 18:11

Azies, on 25 Aug 2013 - 19:05, said:

Holy outdated tech shop....!

 

LMAO



#22 +BudMan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 18:26

"just assume this function does what it says"

That's the thing - what is it saying actually? It doesn't say it isolates them, says allow b/g to not affect n.. WTF does that mean? Says nothing about speeds or performance.

As to your tomato setup.. And what setting did you run when or are you talking about in tomato?

CTS Protection Mode

When set to Auto, a protection mechanism will ensure that your Wireless-B devices will connect to the Wireless-G router when many Wireless-G devices are present. However, performance of your Wireless-G devices may be decreased.

I have been unsuccessful finding anything that gives tech detail of that setting.. But a normal mixed mode setting for b/g/n you don't lower the overall data rate but clients now have to send out rts/cts at b/g rates so that those clients know how long the n client will be using the airwaves.

You do understand that if B and or G clients show up the router has to send out beacons and probe responses so that those clients see them, etc.

If what your looking for is performance, then B should not be on G.. And G should not be on N.. One way or the other there is going to be a performance hit.. Now if what your doing is browsing the net, viewing email you most likely wont really notice.. But if your wanting to stream media, download using full pipe, etc. Then yeah its going to be a HIT..

If you don't have G devices, why do you allow for them - just setup to be N only..

#23 OP moeburn

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 21:29

"just assume this function does what it says"

That's the thing - what is it saying actually? It doesn't say it isolates them, says allow b/g to not affect n.. WTF does that mean? Says nothing about speeds or performance.

As to your tomato setup.. And what setting did you run when or are you talking about in tomato?

CTS Protection Mode

When set to Auto, a protection mechanism will ensure that your Wireless-B devices will connect to the Wireless-G router when many Wireless-G devices are present. However, performance of your Wireless-G devices may be decreased.

I have been unsuccessful finding anything that gives tech detail of that setting.. But a normal mixed mode setting for b/g/n you don't lower the overall data rate but clients now have to send out rts/cts at b/g rates so that those clients know how long the n client will be using the airwaves.

You do understand that if B and or G clients show up the router has to send out beacons and probe responses so that those clients see them, etc.

If what your looking for is performance, then B should not be on G.. And G should not be on N.. One way or the other there is going to be a performance hit.. Now if what your doing is browsing the net, viewing email you most likely wont really notice.. But if your wanting to stream media, download using full pipe, etc. Then yeah its going to be a HIT..

If you don't have G devices, why do you allow for them - just setup to be N only..

 

You guyyyyss!  Stop threadjacking!  My problem is more important than you trying to make this guy understand how wrong he is! :p

 

Could anyone analyze the picture I attached and tell me what my ethernet cable test results mean?

 

 

You said if you had another cable you would wire the laptop too. Why not just buy an inexpensive 4 port switch, connect the incoming cable to it and than a cable to your DT and one to the LT.

 

Easy peasy and full speed.

 

:D

 

I don't have a switch, but I have a very cheap crappy 4 port hub.  (I know its a hub, not a switch/router, because it has no gateway, or configuration web page, or anything like that.  There are no settings, you just plug stuff in and hope it works.)  Is a hub good enough?  Or does a switch enable me to use more of the available speed between two computers better?



#24 +BudMan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 23:27

"Could anyone analyze the picture I attached and tell me what my ethernet cable test results mean?"

Means the cable is JUNK!! Replace it.. You can not get gig without all 4 pairs (8 wires)..

Are there jacks in the wall, or just patch cable hanging out some hole? You could try redoing the ends.. As to testing a cable from one side with the switch off?? Yeah not so sure about the validity of impedance testing with nothing on the other end? You can get a cable tester for very cheap! Not going to tell you that is passes all the qualification tests, etc. But should tell you if its good or bad..

http://www.amazon.ca...g/dp/B00815O5EI

if you want to read about impedance mismatch
http://en.wikipedia....edance_matching

But what it comes down too.. you need a new run if you want to run gig.. You have 4 out of your 8 that say broken.. can not run gig even if your other 4 showed perfect.

#25 OP moeburn

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 23:32

"Could anyone analyze the picture I attached and tell me what my ethernet cable test results mean?"

Means the cable is JUNK!! Replace it.. You can not get gig without all 4 pairs (8 wires)..

Are there jacks in the wall, or just patch cable hanging out some hole? You could try redoing the ends.. As to testing a cable from one side with the switch off?? Yeah not so sure about the validity of impedance testing with nothing on the other end? You can get a cable tester for very cheap! Not going to tell you that is passes all the qualification tests, etc. But should tell you if its good or bad..

http://www.amazon.ca...g/dp/B00815O5EI

if you want to read about impedance mismatch
http://en.wikipedia....edance_matching

But what it comes down too.. you need a new run if you want to run gig.. You have 4 out of your 8 that say broken.. can not run gig even if your other 4 showed perfect.

 

It's just one solid piece of 75ft Cat5e cable, holes drilled through brick and mortar and drywall to feed them outside, down the wall, and back inside, with plenty of (admittedly unwise) heavy folding and bending and crimping along the way.  Not sure why you called it a 'patch' cable though; from what I understand it, a patch cable is either a really really short version of a cable, or in the case of ethernet, a crossover cable.

 

And no, you cannot test the cable with the router turned on, because then the tester can't send a current and reliably measure the returning current when there's other stuff flowing through the wire, like keep-alive packets.  You CAN test the cable when its unplugged on the other end, but that will only tell you the length of the cable, and not the status (because all the links are broken when its unplugged).

 

And it might only be 2 of those 4 that are actually broken;  The one that reads "16m".  The last two might read "open/broken cable" because the router has physically disconnected them, because it doesn't need them, because it saw that the 2nd-last pair was broken.

 

And I could just test the cables myself with a multimeter; all that a cheap ethernet tester does (and all that this software is doing) is measuring the resistance of the cable, given a known resistance of 1 meter of standard Cat5e, and telling you the estimated length, and whether or not the resistances match.

 

But either way, yeah, it looks like I need a new 75ft cable and lots of wire-through-hole-feeding-skill.  Great. :(

 

But maybe I'll just wait until the new 1.3gbit wireless comes out.  No point in trying to switch to gigabit ethernet if the next wireless std is going to be of comparable speed :p



#26 +InsaneNutter

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 23:58

You said if you had another cable you would wire the laptop too. Why not just buy an inexpensive 4 port switch, connect the incoming cable to it and than a cable to your DT and one to the LT.
 
Easy peasy and full speed.
 
:D


I was thinking that from reading the first post, thought no one was going to suggest it!

#27 OP moeburn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 00:01

I was thinking that from reading the first post, thought no one was going to suggest it!

 

Because usually when people ask questions like this, like "can I use the wifi PCI card I have lying around", its because the "buy a new blah blah blah for only $20!" option is a last resort only, and because "only $20" to one person is definitely not "only" to some people.



#28 PGHammer

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 00:30

Because usually when people ask questions like this, like "can I use the wifi PCI card I have lying around", its because the "buy a new blah blah blah for only $20!" option is a last resort only, and because "only $20" to one person is definitely not "only" to some people.

Also, it could well be that a JACK is not wired correctly. (This is common with wired Ethernet jacks that are installed by those familiar with telco - not LAN - wiring specs.)

 

RJ-11 (telco), unlike RJ-45 LAN, uses dual twisted-pair, not quad twisted-pair.  Where the two crossover is RJ-11/45 xSDN/xDSL - note that both RJ-11 and RJ-45 cabling and plugs can be used for either.  (RJ-11 is, in fact, used for voice-only hardware plugged into xDSL/xSDN, while RJ-45 is used for data equipment, such xDSL/xSDN "modems".)  There is one RJ-45 jack that I strongly suspect of being incorrectly wired - however, I would need to be able to test the questionable jack in isolation, due to its location.

 

Why I suspect the jack:  both ends of the connection otherwise (router and adapter) support gigabit Ethernet; however, the connection itself between them (wired) is only 100 mbps.  The cables themselves (outside of the jack) are gigabit CAT5e, which leaves the jack itself as suspect.

 

If the jack is miswired, I CAN pull the jack and rewire it myself - all I need is time.  (There is enough slack in the run itself that I won't need more cable - I can buy a new jack from RadioShack or MicroCenter.  The jack is NOT integrated into the baseplate.)



#29 +BudMan

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 00:49

"But maybe I'll just wait until the new 1.3gbit wireless comes out. "

Where did you come up with 1.3? That is not a number related to 802.11ac at all..

And again just like they state on the box 11mbit back with B, and 54Mb with G and N, etc.. Do you really think you going to see anywhere close to what they call it?

I do believe the spec for 160Mhz channel with 1 sta your looking at 857mbit PHY... This means nothing in real world.. Here

http://www.speedguid...n_q.php?qid=374

Below is a breakdown of actual real-life average speeds you can expect from wireless routers within a reasonable distance, with low interference and small number of simultaneous clients:

802.11b - 2-3 Mbps downstream, up to 5-6 Mbps with some vendor-specific extensions.
802.11g - ~20 Mbps downstream
802.11n - 40-50 Mbps typical, varying greatly depending on configuration, whether it is mixed or N-only network, the number of bonded channels, etc. Specifying a channel, and using 40MHz channels can help achieve 70-80Mbps with some newer routers. Up to 100 Mbps achievable with more expensive commercial equipment with 8x8 arrays, gigabit ports, etc.
802.11ac - 70-100 Mbps

So where is this 1.3gbit?? I can tell you for sure with a wire, I get REAL world speeds in the high 800's to low 900Mbps

Here
http://www.tomshardw...er,3386-10.html

No where close to Gig speeds.. Sorry.. And these are 100+ $ routers, etc..

Run a wire, if your looking for speed. Hire someone, going to be cheaper than buying wireless hardware that yet again no where close to the number they put on the box ;)

edit
"because "only $20" to one person is definitely not "only" to some people."

Dude the fact that you have 7 year old wifi card, which at the time was more than $20 for damn sure, the fact that you have multiple tech devices, laptops laying around.. Come on dude -- sorry but $20 sure and the hell is not an issue for you.. If it was, reason is your spending it on stuff you can not afford ;)

edit2
I see where you coming up with 1.3GB

Wireless AC1300
Offering dual-band speeds up to 450Mbps (2.4GHz) and 867Mbps (5GHz) for maximum throughput and coverage

So they add 450+867 and you get 1300.. Yeah Ok ;) Lets talk real world, you moving that file from X to Y.. What speed do you see!

#30 OP moeburn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:40

"But maybe I'll just wait until the new 1.3gbit wireless comes out. "

Where did you come up with 1.3? That is not a number related to 802.11ac at all..

And again just like they state on the box 11mbit back with B, and 54Mb with G and N, etc.. Do you really think you going to see anywhere close to what they call it?

I do believe the spec for 160Mhz channel with 1 sta your looking at 857mbit PHY... This means nothing in real world.. Here

http://www.speedguid...n_q.php?qid=374

Below is a breakdown of actual real-life average speeds you can expect from wireless routers within a reasonable distance, with low interference and small number of simultaneous clients:

802.11b - 2-3 Mbps downstream, up to 5-6 Mbps with some vendor-specific extensions.
802.11g - ~20 Mbps downstream
802.11n - 40-50 Mbps typical, varying greatly depending on configuration, whether it is mixed or N-only network, the number of bonded channels, etc. Specifying a channel, and using 40MHz channels can help achieve 70-80Mbps with some newer routers. Up to 100 Mbps achievable with more expensive commercial equipment with 8x8 arrays, gigabit ports, etc.
802.11ac - 70-100 Mbps

So where is this 1.3gbit?? I can tell you for sure with a wire, I get REAL world speeds in the high 800's to low 900Mbps

Here
http://www.tomshardw...er,3386-10.html

No where close to Gig speeds.. Sorry.. And these are 100+ $ routers, etc..

Run a wire, if your looking for speed. Hire someone, going to be cheaper than buying wireless hardware that yet again no where close to the number they put on the box ;)

edit
"because "only $20" to one person is definitely not "only" to some people."

Dude the fact that you have 7 year old wifi card, which at the time was more than $20 for damn sure, the fact that you have multiple tech devices, laptops laying around.. Come on dude -- sorry but $20 sure and the hell is not an issue for you.. If it was, reason is your spending it on stuff you can not afford ;)

edit2
I see where you coming up with 1.3GB

Wireless AC1300
Offering dual-band speeds up to 450Mbps (2.4GHz) and 867Mbps (5GHz) for maximum throughput and coverage

So they add 450+867 and you get 1300.. Yeah Ok ;) Lets talk real world, you moving that file from X to Y.. What speed do you see!

 

 

Okay, to answer all your questions:

 

1) I got the 1300mbit number from this article:

http://hexus.net/tec...i-modem-router/

Also, a quick wiki search says: "This specification [802.11ac] has expected multi-station WLAN throughput of at least 1 gigabit per second"

2) I'm well aware that these are theoretical speeds, and overhead and other crap brings them down to like 50% of their theoretical.  Doesn't make the theoretical cap any less useful of a benchmark when comparing two different wifi specifications.

3) It is very possible to have a ton of electronic gadgets and be so poor that you can't afford to spend $20:  Most of my stuff was bought for me by my parents, or bought by me, back when I was still living with my parents, and didn't have to pay for food and shelter and taxes.  Now I am living on my own, going to school, while working a minimum wage job, and paying rent and taxes.  $20 is a lot, and spending $20 is avoided whenever possible.