Jump to content



Photo

Steve Ballmer’s ‘failure’ illustrated in a single chart


  • Please log in to reply
78 replies to this topic

#31 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:42

Maybe., maybe not.  I don't think the average consumer rushes out to buy a new PC due to OS, but rather need.  I could be wrong, however.

 

Oh, on that, I completely agree.




#32 wv@gt

wv@gt

    Neowinian Senior

  • 4,279 posts
  • Joined: 19-May 04
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:45

The difference is that Ballmer isn't a visionary like Jobs was or even Gates.   



#33 Growled

Growled

    Neowinian Senior

  • 41,508 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 08
  • Location: USA

Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:03

Maybe., maybe not.  I don't think the average consumer rushes out to buy a new PC due to OS, but rather need.  I could be wrong, however.

I think you are exactly right. Windows has gotten too reliable. If it's working, and working fine, people don't see a need to upgrade.



#34 vcfan

vcfan

    Straight Ballin'

  • 5,367 posts
  • Joined: 12-June 11

Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:03

LfimDSj.png

 

/thread

 

wait until the rest of steve ballmers plan unfolds to release sub $300 win8 touch devices that they've been working on, then its really going to be a slaughter.



#35 ctebah

ctebah

    Neowinian Senior

  • 4,998 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 03

Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:11

Why build upon failure? Windows 8.1 isn't going to save Surface.

#36 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:29

Why build upon failure? Windows 8.1 isn't going to save Surface.

 

I think it can, having installed the preview. It had 2 major problems, well 3. #1 bad speakers/sound. It's gotten better, but sucks still. #2 Windows 8 RT/RTM and the core apps just bad. #3 limited apps (tablet apps).

 

8.1 looks like it will fix #2, and apps are coming slowly but surely. Some of the games are really good. Unfortunately, the good ones are $6.99.

 

On second generation hardware it will be even better. Things still look grim, but as a hater of Windows 8 RTM, I have to say it's got a chance, it's looking good, even Xbox Music and Video. With the new management, I wouldn't bet against them.

 

Lose enough bananas and even an 800lb. gorilla will take a step back and rethink his strategy. Remember when AMD was stomping all over Intel's processors. Then Intel Israel produced the Merom mobile processor based on the Core microarchitecture? They haven't looked back since...



#37 PGHammer

PGHammer

    Neowinian Senior

  • 9,308 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 03
  • Location: Accokeek, MD
  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:57

Why build upon failure? Windows 8.1 isn't going to save Surface.

And Surface is a failure compared to what - Android?

 

Surface/RT and Android aren't in the same price range.  If Surface (in fact, RT in general) competes with anything in the tablet/slate space it's the iPad - and even to an extent, Windows (both 7 and 8, which are also competing with the selfsame iPad).

If one company has lost marketshare in the tablet space, it's Apple - their own sales numbers of iPads reflect that.  Further, Microsoft has, in fact, not been even going after Android tablets or slates with their ads for Surface - in print or any other media.  Also, the OEMs selling RT hardware also (by and large) are Android OEMs as well.  You're reading WAY too much into Surface and why it's out there.

 

Surface, as a product, is three things - first off, it's a high-end reference-standard RT platform.  There is little or nothing low-end about a Surface compared to anything except a Retina iPad - which beats it ONLY in terms of the display.

Second, neither Surface RT or Surface Pro has ANY bloat.  Unlike RT (or Windows, for that matter) from Microsoft OEMs, Surface RT and Surface Pro are Microsoft Signature platforms - no bloat OR crapware.  Name an Android OEM that sells tablets sans bloat or crapware.  There is exactly one other tablet OEM that has no bloat or crapware on their tablets by default - Apple.

Lastly, where is the Android high-end tablet?  Three words - there isn't one.  Not even Acer or ASUS has repurposed their RT stock to run Android - which is certainly possible, since the hardware is of higher quality tthan anything they have running Android today, and exceeds the specs of even the nVidia Shield.  That speaks of a rather telling tactic, and not merely among the various Android OEMs, but Google  - they have staked out the low-end tablet turf for their own, and are purposely avoiding direct competition with the iPad.

 

Microsoft, basically, is doing what Google has refused to in the tablet space - go after Apple on their own turf.

 

.It's working, despite how much you may think otherwise.  Surface's marketshare came out of somebody's hide or hides.



#38 ctebah

ctebah

    Neowinian Senior

  • 4,998 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 03

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:10

Really? So how do you explain the huge write down or the fact that most 3rd party OEMs have pulled out of surface RT project.

So let me repeat myself again, it's a FAILURE.

#39 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:13

Really? So how do you explain the huge write down or the fact that most 3rd party OEMs have pulled out of surface RT project.

So let me repeat myself again, it's a FAILURE.

 How about it's first year has been a failure, and it appears to be on life support, but it's not actually dead.



#40 adrynalyne

adrynalyne

    .NET Developer

  • 3,050 posts
  • Joined: 29-November 09

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:17

Really? So how do you explain the huge write down or the fact that most 3rd party OEMs have pulled out of surface RT project.

So let me repeat myself again, it's a FAILURE.

Microsoft is a software company.  Consoles aside, they should have known better.  I doubt any OS would have saved the Surface.



#41 ctebah

ctebah

    Neowinian Senior

  • 4,998 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 03

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:17

How about it's first year has been a failure, and it appears to be on life support, but it's not actually dead.


That analogy would actually work better. The majority of consumers skipped both the PRO and RT versions and upgrading their hardware or software isn't going to change that.

#42 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:21

Don't count Ballmer out until he's actually packed his desk and left the campus. Within 12 Months the following will happen:

 

  • Windows 8.1 will be released
  • Windows Phone GDR2 will be released
  • Nokia Tablet will be released
  • Windows RT Tablets will have cellular
  • Developers will begin producing more Windows Phone apps, and now lifestyle peripherals can be supported on the most popular phones (Nokia) with BT 4.0, an area iPhone/Pad totally dominates.
  • Developers will be reaching the top of the learning curve for producing AAA Modern UI Apps and will have 8.1 to execute them in.
  • Xbox One will be released
  • Killer Instinct for Xbox One will be released, lol
  • More good PC games will be released thanks to both PS4 and XB1 having a PC architecture

This could be a post-dated resignation. "Here's my resignation, I'll sign it if I don't succeed in the next 12 months." Ballmer has the balls to do it. Under this scenario, he continues to perform without all the pressure.

 

It was a bad first year due to bad management IMO, but like the Surface, they've survived (all that are left) the very painful R&D costs. It's all upside from here. I think MS owes its loyal customers something. Like more free Windows Media Center codes or something along those lines. They suffered with them, without Vaseline this time around.

 

PS: If HTC ever released the promised metal unibody the One with Windows Phone, look out. I'll buy one on the spot.



#43 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:30

That analogy would actually work better. The majority of consumers skipped both the PRO and RT versions and upgrading their hardware or software isn't going to change that.

 

They were both a little expensive, especially the PRO. We bought a lot of Pros and they are generally loved. But that's in the enterprise. Surface RT and new tabs are and will hopefully remain cheaper. Then need to stick at $249 or less.

 

At the end of the day, PC, tablet, or phone, it's ALL about the software. OS and Apps. And MS has a huge margin for improvement there.

 

Hey, I agree, they totally blew it, unnecessarily the first year. Ballmer should be censured for letting Sinofsky run wild, but they've weathered all that and are fixing their mistakes. Remember the Start Button would never come back? This is one of the hardest things for established leaders to do, accept your mistakes and correct them. Gotta give Ballmer credit for that. It's just somewhat inexcusable he let these things happen in the first place. I think that's where he can be criticized. But they are in a good position and poised to strike back. The Mobile area will be tough, but Apple's iOS 7 is, meh. I predict MS kicking some major ass the next 12 months. And installing Windows 8.1 Preview on my Surface RT has done nothing but encourage that thought.



#44 PGHammer

PGHammer

    Neowinian Senior

  • 9,308 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 03
  • Location: Accokeek, MD
  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 26 August 2013 - 23:05

Microsoft is a software company.  Consoles aside, they should have known better.  I doubt any OS would have saved the Surface.

Those same third-party OEMs kept right on selling Android hardware, even WHILE selling RT hardware.  Microsoft did NOT ask them to stop selling Android hardware.

 

For the OEMs, it is very much all about margin - with Android, they actually HAVE a profit margin (for two reasons, they pay less overall, even with royalty payments to Microsoft added on, in terms of software, AND the hardware required to run Android is cheaper).  With RT, even during a robust economy (which the current one is anything but), the margin is basically none - even the critics admit that Microsoft is likely LOSING money on Surface.

 

I don't blame the Acer Group - or ASUS - for throwing in the towel (as I said, it is indeed all about margin for them).

 

Surface was NOT designed to go after Android - contrary to the thinking of practically all of its critics; it would be like Windows going after Linux.  If RT, or even Surface, were designed, or planned for that matter, to take on Android, why is it that Microsoft did not ask a single RT OEM to not sell Android hardware?

 

Surface (and RT) were designed to go after the iPad in particular.  Yes - the RT App Store needs more apps (of high quality) - the absolute LAST thing Microsoft needs is for the RT App Store to devolve into Google Play.  (That's right - I specifically said DEVOLVE - the ONLY thing Google Play has going for it is app count.  App quality on Google Play is actually WORSE than that of the Android Market it replaced; that is one reason why some quality third-party developers want no part of Google Play - too much riffraff.)



#45 MorganX

MorganX

    MegaZilla™

  • 4,040 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 04
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • OS: Digita Storm Bolt, Windows 8.1 x64Ce Pro w/Media nter Pack/Core i7 4790K/16GB DDR3 1600/Samsung 850 Pro 256GB x 2 - Raid 0/Transcend M.2 256GB/ASRock Z97E-ITXac/GTX 970
  • Phone: Samsung Galaxy S5 Active

Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:32

Windows 8 will have to prove itself to me, with much better sales before I bet on it.

 

I'm not sure I understand. What if it does all you need, very well, offers a lot of new capability/way of working but doesn't set the market's mindshare on fire and basically only sells because it's now the default version of Windows.

 

What does sales have to do with whether or not it works well for you?