Women gang raped by 10-12 juveniles in park


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Sorry, you can't compare one country verses dozens just to make your figures look better. at individual countries....

That's how the UN compares it. Probably because looking just at Western Europes low numbers like you have isn't reflective of the region as a whole. It would be like looking at the US minus Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore and Oakland.

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You obviously haven't traveled the US, or if you have not enough. There's a wide diversity here in spite of superficial language similarities. Send a New Yorker to Cajun or Uper country and they'll feel like they're on flippin Mars.

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imho, castration is the first step taken when one is officially charged with the crime committed.

After that, jail time. A long jail time.

 

Rape, or any sexual assault, on any person, of any age, should have very severe punishments.

And it has been proven over and over again in studies, that first time offenders will strike again after being released into society.

So castration is a first step to avoid that behavior in the future.

 

And don't come to me with bull kaka like "Oh... we cannot do that as a society..."

Wait until it happens to your family, and you're in the frontrow, waving your pitchfork.....

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That's how the UN compares it. Probably because looking just at Western Europes low numbers like you have isn't reflective of the region as a whole. It would be like looking at the US minus Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore and Oakland.

 

Europe is different countries (language, religions, economies, etc) the US is different states.

 

You can't compare apples with oranges, more so because the whole of Europe including the ones which are always in conflict, poor economies, etc still don't bring the average up past the US.

 

This thread isn't about comparing crime stats anyway.

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That's how the UN compares it. Probably because looking just at Western Europes low numbers like you have isn't reflective of the region as a whole. It would be like looking at the US minus Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore and Oakland.

I've called you out on those numbers before, so you know very well that they're misleading. There really isn't any doubt that the US is a lot more violent country and that the death penalty hasn't done anything to help the situation, which was the point being made. The death penalty deserves no place in any civilised society.

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imho, castration is the first step taken when one is officially charged with the crime committed.

After that, jail time. A long jail time.

 

Rape, or any sexual assault, on any person, of any age, should have very severe punishments.

And it has been proven over and over again in studies, that first time offenders will strike again after being released into society.

So castration is a first step to avoid that behavior in the future.

 

And don't come to me with bull kaka like "Oh... we cannot do that as a society..."

Wait until it happens to your family, and you're in the frontrow, waving your pitchfork.....

 

Sorry, but your response is clearly based on emotional aspects rather than calm thinking.

 

You don't want justice, you want revenge.  An eye for an eye justice just leaves everyone blind. Kind of a clich?d response, but valid none the less.

 

And before you say "wait till it happens to your loved ones", it HAS. My sister was raped by her arab husband and severely beaten, and yes. I and my brothers/dad responded emotionally.  Did it help at all? Nope, not in the slightest.

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Sorry, castration is a rational decision, not emotionally.

 

Again, it has been proven that first offenders -do- repeat. Castration, or chemical castration by admitting drugs is a way to stop these repeats.

 

And I'm sorry to hear about your sister. Really. And the 'wait untill it happens to your family' is a way of trying to start a discussion with people who are against any form of punishment like this.

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I've called you out on those numbers before, so you know very well that they're misleading. There really isn't any doubt that the US is a lot more violent country and that the death penalty hasn't done anything to help the situation, which was the point being made. The death penalty deserves no place in any civilised society.

 

What do you propose happens instead? As rehabilitation is definitely not working majority of the time for serious crime perpetrators. You cant retrain a person who is of adult age.

 

How about we create a man-made maximum security prison island and throw in everyone who commits a serious crime, no parole, no minimum sentence. They live in a society full of other criminals. Put cameras in every corner and make it a tv show too.

- yep much more civilized. 

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What do you propose happens instead? As rehabilitation is definitely not working majority of the time for serious crime perpetrators. You cant retrain a person who is of adult age.

It's about addressing the social issues that push people into crime - poor parenting, failing schools, low-level crime, poverty, etc. And when people do commit a crime you can't expect to lock them up with the worst elements of society and end up with nicer people at the end of it. There have been studies that show that reoffending rates for people sent to prison are worse than those given community sentences, so clearly what we're doing isn't working. Criminals need to be educated and be surrounded with positive role models. There are also innovative new approaches that show promise.

 

The death penalty doesn't work, which is why civilised countries have long since moved away from it.

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The death penalty doesn't work, which is why civilised countries have long since moved away from it.

 

100% of the people who went through it never did a re-occurring crime.. That is a lot better than any rehab program or anything else for that matter.

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100% of the people who went through it never did a re-occurring crime.. That is a lot better than anything else that's been attempted.

And has cost the lives of countless innocent people, while increasing the cost of the criminal justice system and doing nothing to act as a deterrent. There's a reason why most countries have abolished the death penalty.

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And has cost the lives of countless innocent people, while increasing the cost of the criminal justice system and doing nothing to act as a deterrent. There's a reason why most countries have abolished the death penalty.

 

It doesn't increase the cost of the criminal justice system it costs more to keep them fed and under a tin roof with countless guards to watch over them, most countries abolished the death penalty cause people complained it was inhumane not because it was ineffective. Some Innocent people may have been sentenced but I doubt its likely to happen these days with current technology and the need for very solid evidence.

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Sorry, castration is a rational decision, not emotionally.

 

Again, it has been proven that first offenders -do- repeat. Castration, or chemical castration by admitting drugs is a way to stop these repeats.

 

And I'm sorry to hear about your sister. Really. And the 'wait untill it happens to your family' is a way of trying to start a discussion with people who are against any form of punishment like this.

Yes, it's been proven that the American punishment system does not help the prisoners and release the, as repeat criminals worse than when they came in.

Of course if you look another parts of the world with a better prison and correctional system. You'll see that criminals are far less likely to be released as repeat criminals.

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It doesn't increase the cost of the criminal justice system it costs more to keep them fed and under a tin roof with countless guards to watch over them, most countries abolished the death penalty cause people complained it was inhumane not because it was ineffective. Some Innocent people may have been sentenced but I doubt its likely to happen these days with current technology and the need for very solid evidence.

Really it's not that long since you have both been proven to kill innocents but also have recently released pele on death row in the last second because it was found out they where innocent.

Outside of that, death penalty does nothing. I doesn't deter, it doesn't scare, it doesn't reduce crime, it only gives the victims a hollow feeling of revenge.

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It doesn't increase the cost of the criminal justice system it costs more to keep them fed and under a tin roof with countless guards to watch over them

Wrong. It's quite clear you don't know what you're talking about. Here are a few articles on the matter:

 

1) Death penalty costs more than $300m per execution

2) The death penalty is more expensive than life without parole

3) Death and taxes: The real cost of the death penalty

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The US criminal justice system is centered around vengeance, that's why rehabilitation rates are poor. The death penalty is about nothing more than revenge, it does not serve justice in fact all it does is sends the message that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people we dislike, a message most of the civilised world is moving away from.

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The US criminal justice system is centered around vengeance, that's why rehabilitation rates are poor. The death penalty is about nothing more than revenge, it does not serve justice in fact all it does is sends the message that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people we dislike, a message most of the civilised world is moving away from.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Yes, it's been proven that the American punishment system does not help the prisoners and release the, as repeat criminals worse than when they came in.

Of course if you look another parts of the world with a better prison and correctional system. You'll see that criminals are far less likely to be released as repeat criminals.

 

Norway is a pretty good example of that. Your entire correctional system is focused on rehab rather than punishment.

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There is a few people who are locked up and will never be released, despite the max limit of 21 years for life. These people are under a special lock up where they will remain until they are deemed safe for society, also known as never.

As far as I know right now that is two kid(well they where once) who raped to little girls and killed them and breivik, though he's partly in psychiatric to, I dunno didn't pay attention to the final outcome there.

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Wrong. It's quite clear you don't know what you're talking about. Here are a few articles on the matter:

 

1) Death penalty costs more than $300m per execution

2) The death penalty is more expensive than life without parole

3) Death and taxes: The real cost of the death penalty

 

Ive seen many articles and I've read those above.

 

1). California and the capital punishment system has gone through a lot of changes and because of this it has cost the state a lot of money but once setup correctly it still remains a lot cheaper.

 

Capital punishment is rife with hidden costs. The extra security involved in death row adds about $100,000 a year per prisoner, the initial trial costs more than $1m on top of that of a life-without-parole case and each appeal costs $300,000 in lawyers' fees.

 

Costs have built up also because they are keeping death row inmates locked in prison for over 25yrs in some cases and there should be an appeal limit and appeals should only be processed on when some solid evidence is there not just for the sake of buying themselves more time.

 

 

2). It contradicts itself for example:

 

as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California?s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.?

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimated the annual costs of the state?s death penalty system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of a system that imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

 

 

$137 Million per year for the death penalty, but if we kept them alive it would cost us 11.5 Million per year.. So in under 12 years it would equal the same amount. These prisoners are still alive though and will continue to cost the same amount for another 10-20-30 maybe even 60 years. If its a serious enough crime that they would face the death penalty they would be serving life sentences if it didn't have the death penalty so initial costs may be more but long term its cheaper even if the guy who wrote the article isnt good with maths or cant see the overall picture.

 

The rest of the article is about the appeal cases and jury system costing more (it goes through more steps to safeguard against innocent people being sentenced to death and also majority of the defendants require a public defendant as they dont have the money to pay for a private lawyer so this extra cost is expected)

 

3). Is about the innocent people and supposed racism then it goes on to say that the trials cost a lot more, roughly $1 million more per trial (Which is roughly 12 years worth in prison). Long term wise still cheaper.

(It also mentions the drugs used for the actual death penalty only cost $83)

 

 

Norway is a pretty good example of that. Your entire correctional system is focused on rehab rather than punishment.

 

Australia has a similar system where prisoners get a roof, tv, internet, 3 solid meals, gym, pool, etc. But it backfired and ex-prisoners were doing crimes specifically to be sent back because they had it easy in prison.

I'm also assuming the Norway system was for minor crimes and not maximum security prison.

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But anyway I hope after this, the women take self defense seriously. 

 

No amount of self-defense classes is going to protect them against a group of 10-12 guys.

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