71 posts in this topic

Posted

 Look whos holier than thou. 

 

Except I speak in facts, real world numbers.

 

I don't go "he's a bad person he needs to be punished, and I'd like to watch"

 

so your "argument" is invalid. 

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Posted

Except I speak in facts, real world numbers.

 

I don't go "he's a bad person he needs to be punished, and I'd like to watch"

 

so your "argument" is invalid. 

No you call us uncivilized compared to you which makes you hollier than thou. Thanks for playing. 

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Posted

Sending killers to resorts as "rehabilitation" isn't justice. It's letting them get away with murder.

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Posted

No you call us uncivilized compared to you which makes you hollier than thou. Thanks for playing. 

 

Then again, maybe I was merely referencing Dostoevsky

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Posted

Sending killers to resorts as "rehabilitation" isn't justice. It's letting them get away with murder.

 

And again, I welcome you to come to the Norwegian prison system holiday resort for a 1-12 month voluntary stay, of course you have to decide how long to stay before you go, and abide by all the rules everyone else there does. and then you can come back here and tell me it's a resort. 

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Posted

Hahahahahahahaha, nope!  The budget that the counseling and rehab services get is a joke.  Prison hasn't been about rehab for quite some time.

They seem more like massive babysitting services these days.

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Posted

Get rid of all that crap, and pull out all the weights too...if the wanna work out too all the should be able to do is run..

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Posted

guess I'm heartless..They are better off dead. Thats my form of justice 

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Posted

So your perfect prison system is exactly what the US system is right now, broken vengeance punishment system, resulting in higher crime and more hardened criminals. congrats. 

 

Yes, 100 years ago the point of prison was to punish people to scare them straight and to scare people away from doing crime. Unlike Americans, the civilized world has learnt that this doesn't work and you reduce crime by rehabilitating criminals, not punishing them. 

Our system isn't vengeance based, it's based on consequences of actions in accordance to the law...or it is supposed to be.  It is far too soft, to be honest, between corrupt officials and bleeding heart crybabies who clamor and insist that all criminals are victims or misunderstood or some crap.  Sadly, it's broken because there's too many easy-outs and shortcuts, and not enough funds to do things right.  There's other problems too, such as persecution of some criminals doing things that in of themselves should be decriminalized (take pot smoking; if nothing else, I think that should be decriminalized for users who aren't endangering others simply to clear out room in our prisons for actual dangerous perpetrators and to lessen our tax dollar burden and the stress on the judicial system as a whole).

 

But back to your accusations of thinking you know what I believe, my ideal system wouldn't be more akin to none of them should have contact with one another except during 1 hour of exercise a day (no weights; running or walking only).  Smaller cells and solitary confinement for all of them.  The only other time they might see others would be on work detail.  Longer sentences, too; early parole should be abolished.  The point is, I don't want to watch; I want to keep these vile wretches away from law-abiding citizens for as long as possible.  Choices have consequences. We shouldn't have to rehabilitate those who are either too stupid or didn't care enough to act as they are supposed to in the first place.  Juveniles I can understand; rehabilitate (or try to) away.  But I expect more out of grown men and women.

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Posted

If so, I wounder why Michel planned prison break!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

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Posted

Our system isn't vengeance based, it's based on consequences of actions in accordance to the law...or it is supposed to be.  It is far too soft, to be honest, between corrupt officials and bleeding heart crybabies who clamor and insist that all criminals are victims or misunderstood or some crap.  Sadly, it's broken because there's too many easy-outs and shortcuts, and not enough funds to do things right.  There's other problems too, such as persecution of some criminals doing things that in of themselves should be decriminalized (take pot smoking; if nothing else, I think that should be decriminalized for users who aren't endangering others simply to clear out room in our prisons for actual dangerous perpetrators and to lessen our tax dollar burden and the stress on the judicial system as a whole).

 

But back to your accusations of thinking you know what I believe, my ideal system wouldn't be more akin to none of them should have contact with one another except during 1 hour of exercise a day (no weights; running or walking only).  Smaller cells and solitary confinement for all of them.  The only other time they might see others would be on work detail.  Longer sentences, too; early parole should be abolished.  The point is, I don't want to watch; I want to keep these vile wretches away from law-abiding citizens for as long as possible.  Choices have consequences. We shouldn't have to rehabilitate those who are either too stupid or didn't care enough to act as they are supposed to in the first place.  Juveniles I can understand; rehabilitate (or try to) away.  But I expect more out of grown men and women.

 

And again, your system is what the prison system was in the past and still is. it doesn't deter and doesn't fix the problem. 

 

Look to the countries who's actually fixing the problem. 

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Posted

http://jammersales.com

 

problem solved.

 

As for the weed? You are never going to stop that happening.

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Posted

Let me ask you a question, where do you get this "better than thou" from. Where do you get that I enjoy inflicting pain on someone because I am not seeing it. 

 

BTW. it was impressive how you in this post completely managed to ignore replying on how your assumption and proclamation that your criminals are worse was proven completely wrong and instead reply to something completely different to take focus away from that. 

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Posted

BTW. it was impressive how you in this post completely managed to ignore replying on how your assumption and proclamation that your criminals are worse was proven completely wrong and instead reply to something completely different to take focus away from that. 

Ok let me know when your countries criminals make the news section here. Let me know how many murders occur in Norway vs the U.S. Go on look up the statistics. I'll be waiting. 

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Posted

But back to your accusations of thinking you know what I believe, my ideal system wouldn't be more akin to none of them should have contact with one another except during 1 hour of exercise a day (no weights; running or walking only).  Smaller cells and solitary confinement for all of them.  The only other time they might see others would be on work detail.  Longer sentences, too; early parole should be abolished.  The point is, I don't want to watch; I want to keep these vile wretches away from law-abiding citizens for as long as possible.  Choices have consequences. We shouldn't have to rehabilitate those who are either too stupid or didn't care enough to act as they are supposed to in the first place.  Juveniles I can understand; rehabilitate (or try to) away.  But I expect more out of grown men and women.

This sounds a lot like the "Philadelphia System" and as much as it sounds good on paper we have now learned only increases crime. It really ends up making the prisoners go mentally insane which turns them into harder criminals than existed prior to this form of imprisonment.

 

I will agree with your general point though that prison isn't supposed to be a vacation. The complicated question is how do we imprison people in a way that is in the best interest of society (which is to reduce the likely hood they will re-offend) and on I don't have an answer for. I do agree that a good start would be the elimination of "moral" crimes from the books. Doing harm to oneself shouldn't be illegal, or at least imprisonment illegal; this should be reserved for crimes that endanger another.

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Posted

guess I'm heartless..They are better off dead. Thats my form of justice 

 

The thing is, a lot of people are in prison that doesn't belong there. I mean drug offenders and people who swindle money and that sort of stuff has no business being in prison with murderers and rapists. Sure, the first group needs to be punished, but there is always a chance that some of them can re rehabilitated and can turn their lives around. The second group, not so much. Yet we stick them all in there together and then wonder why a simple drug offender can turn out to become a murderer down the line.

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Posted

I found this, I want to see some of the facebook profiles strangely enough.

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Posted

Its pretty common for state prisons to have that kind of contraband, usually smuggled up your pooper, imagine cramming a samsung galaxy note up there... LOL

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Posted

Its pretty common for state prisons to have that kind of contraband, usually smuggled up your pooper, imagine cramming a samsung galaxy note up there... LOL

I'm sure repeat offenders wouldn't have much of a problem with that.

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Posted

Ok let me know when your countries criminals make the news section here. Let me know how many murders occur in Norway vs the U.S. Go on look up the statistics. I'll be waiting.

Aka

"My original fallacy comparison fell flat on its face so les make up some ridiculous non comparisons"

The new section here ? Well last I checked breivik did, and since the new section here is pretty much just Hum posting anything he comes over. I suppose I would win that one by posting som random news, huh...

So yes, let's compare the murder number of a country with the total population of one big American city... And that whole comparison is kind of the whole point of this conversation isn't it. Our murder rate is a lot lower because after we put our criminals in jail we rehabilitate them instead of letting them rot, so we release them as contributing members of society instead of hardened criminals worse than when we put them in.

But good try on making up ridiculous fallacies after our original failed. Try again, maybe you'll actually find a valid one eventually.

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Posted

I was in the clink last year for a couple months, and whenever someone left, we would jokingly say "If you come back, you better be walking funny".

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