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#16 trooper11

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:08

And my doubts about MS this generation are back.

 

If they think they can get x millions of people on board and then flip the switch back for the DRM to protect game sharing, it's going to kill them next time. They're lucky to have gotten away with it once.

 

Excuse me, where did you see them say they would bring back the same DRM? 

 

That ship has sailed, they can't bring that system back.  Plus, they don't intend on doing anything with physical media now. 

 

Their new plan would only involve digital media, so the whole 24 hr check would be useless.  Basically, they have had to come up with a new way to deliver the digital media features they talked about before. 




#17 OP BajiRav

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:15

And my doubts about MS this generation are back.
 
If they think they can get x millions of people on board and then flip the switch back for the DRM to protect game sharing, it's going to kill them next time. They're lucky to have gotten away with it once.

Listen, don't post until you are sober :p

#18 Andrew

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:11

Excuse me, where did you see them say they would bring back the same DRM? 

 

That ship has sailed, they can't bring that system back.  Plus, they don't intend on doing anything with physical media now. 

 

Their new plan would only involve digital media, so the whole 24 hr check would be useless.  Basically, they have had to come up with a new way to deliver the digital media features they talked about before. 

 

They haven't but when it comes to MS these days you have to expect the worst tbh. DRM will always be involved, it's not limited to physical copies.

 

I wasn't referring to the 24hr check in either. There is plenty of ways for them to ###### it up.



#19 spenser.d

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 13:17

They haven't but when it comes to MS these days you have to expect the worst tbh. DRM will always be involved, it's not limited to physical copies.

I wasn't referring to the 24hr check in either. There is plenty of ways for them to **** it up.


Don't worry about coming up with a legitimate argument against them even when they're trying to bring great services to the system like digital game trading.

#20 Andrew

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 13:32

Time will tell. They tried it once & they need to protect games. Iis it really hard to imagine they won't have another terrible DRM scheme in the works?

 

And I'm not against digital game sharing, I'm definitely all for it. I've just yet to see an implementation of DRM that doesn't harm consumers in some way & Microsoft haven't exactly been on the lower end of that scale.

 

Still ###### at them for killing my GFWL library. Idiots in that company :no:



#21 trooper11

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 15:29

Time will tell. They tried it once & they need to protect games. Iis it really hard to imagine they won't have another terrible DRM scheme in the works?

 

And I'm not against digital game sharing, I'm definitely all for it. I've just yet to see an implementation of DRM that doesn't harm consumers in some way & Microsoft haven't exactly been on the lower end of that scale.

 

Still ****ed at them for killing my GFWL library. Idiots in that company :no:

 

Well we wont really know until they offer the features, so we will see.

 

I did want to say something about the GFWL stuff.  GFWL is going away, which is a good thing, but your library will not be in accessible.  MS is moving all of its gaming related services into the Xbox service on the PC.  So that means you will still be able to access your games via the Xbox pc service once they do the transition.

 

GFWL is an antiquated system and its plagued with issues.  MS wanted a clean slate and the xbox service is so much better. 



#22 Andrew

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 17:10

Well we wont really know until they offer the features, so we will see.

 

I did want to say something about the GFWL stuff.  GFWL is going away, which is a good thing, but your library will not be in accessible.  MS is moving all of its gaming related services into the Xbox service on the PC.  So that means you will still be able to access your games via the Xbox pc service once they do the transition.

 

GFWL is an antiquated system and its plagued with issues.  MS wanted a clean slate and the xbox service is so much better. 

 

Unless things have changed since I read the initial announcement, some games which use GFWL MP are going to be "broken" and others, i.e AoEO are going completely offline. The latter I'm the most ###### off about seeing as I played it from the beginning in the beta and even bought a boxed copy to support them.

 

I read some developers were going to patch MP over to Steam, but nothing confirmed.

 

We don't need another service to replace it, except of course to replace the broken mess they're causing.



#23 trooper11

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 17:34

Unless things have changed since I read the initial announcement, some games which use GFWL MP are going to be "broken" and others, i.e AoEO are going completely offline. The latter I'm the most ****ed off about seeing as I played it from the beginning in the beta and even bought a boxed copy to support them.

 

I read some developers were going to patch MP over to Steam, but nothing confirmed.

 

We don't need another service to replace it, except of course to replace the broken mess they're causing.

 

 

Some games are going to be patched over to Steam, but some aren't, especially older titles.

 

AoEO shutting down is not really due to GFWL going away, but more about MS dropping support for the game itself.  Unfortunately, that game didn't take off.  I think it sucks too, I enjoyed the game.

 

Actually there was a need for MS to replace GFWL.  It was a mess of a service feature wise and it was never going to compete with Steam in that form.  The Xbox store/service will be a better service for users.  I just hope MS does good by us and transitions any digital purchases made on GFWL to Xbox. 

 

Keep in mind that MS has not even officially confirmed GFWL shutting down.  The reason this is a story is they accidently posted something about an end date of July, 2014.  So once they officially confirm it, I expect we will hear more about the transition to the Xbox store and services.  My thinking is that they are still working on the transition part and intended to wait on the announcement until that was done.  Since the end is a year away, I think we have not heard the whole story yet.



#24 Andrew

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 23:05

Some games are going to be patched over to Steam, but some aren't, especially older titles.

 

AoEO shutting down is not really due to GFWL going away, but more about MS dropping support for the game itself.  Unfortunately, that game didn't take off.  I think it sucks too, I enjoyed the game.

 

Actually there was a need for MS to replace GFWL.  It was a mess of a service feature wise and it was never going to compete with Steam in that form.  The Xbox store/service will be a better service for users.  I just hope MS does good by us and transitions any digital purchases made on GFWL to Xbox. 

 

Keep in mind that MS has not even officially confirmed GFWL shutting down.  The reason this is a story is they accidently posted something about an end date of July, 2014.  So once they officially confirm it, I expect we will hear more about the transition to the Xbox store and services.  My thinking is that they are still working on the transition part and intended to wait on the announcement until that was done.  Since the end is a year away, I think we have not heard the whole story yet.

 

AoEO has support. It was completely overhauled just a year ago. Is it going to rival SC2 or Civ? Not a chance. GFWL is so intertwined with it though that it can't continue without it. They'd have to rebuild the game from scratch from what I've read and at that stage they'd be better making a sequel if they're going to spend time/money on something. **** like this is why the original DRM would never have worked on X1. It's probably going to crop up more often with MP games on PS4/X1. Not looking forward to it one bit.

 

The story is true. We might not know all the details or any contingency plans but there's no doubt about it. Closing the PC marketplace was just the start of it. And tbh, in recent experience, when MS is too scared to talk about something it usually spells bad news. Ask Adam Orth all about it.



#25 dead.cell

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 23:12

This ^...

 

If they choose to keep Yusuf around, it should only be for things like Billboard Ads and commercials.  Though I wouldn't even trust him with that.

Whitten seems to have gotten it together rather speedily after the backlash during the reveal.

 

Any type of public speaking, or interviews with Tech sites, it should always be Penello...  

 

At times, I even want Major Nelson to SHUT UP... :crazy:

 

 

Family share has to be #1 priority on their list.  Especially if its the ability to share FULL GAMES with 10 'family' members.

Considering the direction Steam has been heading, there's absolutely no reason NOT to.

 

Also, I TOTALLY agree with you on Major Nelson. He's a thorn in Microsoft's side, imo.



#26 trooper11

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 00:02

AoEO has support. It was completely overhauled just a year ago. Is it going to rival SC2 or Civ? Not a chance. GFWL is so intertwined with it though that it can't continue without it. They'd have to rebuild the game from scratch from what I've read and at that stage they'd be better making a sequel if they're going to spend time/money on something. **** like this is why the original DRM would never have worked on X1. It's probably going to crop up more often with MP games on PS4/X1. Not looking forward to it one bit.

 

The story is true. We might not know all the details or any contingency plans but there's no doubt about it. Closing the PC marketplace was just the start of it. And tbh, in recent experience, when MS is too scared to talk about something it usually spells bad news. Ask Adam Orth all about it.

 

 

I know the story is true, I just said that.  I said MS leaked the info too early.  Obviously they are still working out the details and don't want to post the official word until that is done.

 

MS is indeed moving to the Xbox marketplace for pc games.  Its a better service than GFWL ever was and it wont be as cumbersome. 

 

Assume whatever you want, there is no point arguing assumptions.  I'm just laying out the possibilities.  MS isn't leaving the pc gaming market, they just want it all under the Xbox roof and not split up with different services.



#27 Athernar

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:34

Called it so many times, but everyone was too busy whining about "internet trolls ruining muh next gens" and other nonsense. Oh well.

 

And my doubts about MS this generation are back.

 

If they think they can get x millions of people on board and then flip the switch back for the DRM to protect game sharing, it's going to kill them next time. They're lucky to have gotten away with it once.

 

It won't, simply because the entire controversy was about the projection of DRM policies from the digital download ecosystem onto physical media - rather than the DRM itself. Take discs out of the equation and people simply won't care as much.

 

Microsoft's other mistake was trying to force a massive shift in policy/ecosystem in one go, for reference - how many years did it take Steam/DD to reach dominance over the market and retail? Bam.

 

This is a good move for Microsoft as it gives everyone what they want, you just pick which ecosystem you prefer. The status quo with discs, or the next-gen with digital.



#28 George P

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:23

Digital sharing is the next logical step to take it but I want them to go the next step, even if it's for Gold members only.  I think Gold members should have the ability to sell their digital games to people, or gift them away for no cost.  If you do sell it then the developer/publisher could get a small % cut so that they don't toss a fit.   Sharing is one thing but I have a number of games I've finished that I'd never play again so if I as a gold member could put them up for sale (I'm sure they'd have to be under the official price of course) then I'd take advantage of it.

 

I could see lots of people selling arcade games they might have paid $10-$15 for when they first came out a few weeks later for $5 to other members.