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Xbox One will be break-even or profit-making from launch

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#16 Skiver

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:51

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad thing as a consumer. When the 360 and PS3 launched they rivaled high-end PC GPU's at the time, and sold at a loss because they had the latest technology. This generation they're selling at a profit because they're using the equivalent of mid-range PC components. 

 

Hell, I bought and ATi 5850 4 years ago that has more compute power than the PS4 and Xbox One.

 

At launch the 360, PS3 supported 720p, now it's 7-8 years later and we're hearing some of the games at launch will still only do 720p. 

But wouldn't mid range PC components still cost around £1000 to build a base unit regardless? 

Plus as far as I am aware with the two APU's that both MS and Sony are using, are hardly off the shelf parts?




#17 George P

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 15:58

I think people are really taking this raw power thing for granted.  You're forgetting a key part here, the advantage of why I personally buy a console, while I also still game on the PC, is because I know that spending that money means I'll be able to play games just fine, smoothly and without issue 5, and now even 7+ years from now.

 

So what if my PCs GPU has way more power?  I used to own a HD 5770 till it started to choke on the newest games, I had it for ~3 years or so, now I got a HD7870 2GB for $250 or so, half the price of the Xbox One, and how long will this be good on the newest games?  Another 3 years?  I really don't see it cutting it for 7+ like I know I'll get from the new consoles.

 

So yes, go on and on about how much more powerful the PC is, that's all well and good, but when a new game comes out a year from now that pushes your shiny new PC to the point where you're thinking of upgrading your GPU again then I'd like for you to remember how much you're getting ready to spend so you can boast.

 

Heck, I'm not a stickler for top of the line gfx and I have no issue with gaming at even 720p on the PC if it's smooth but as far as some of the people on here, if it's anything less than 1080p then it's not good enough. 



#18 giantpotato

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 16:03

But wouldn't mid range PC components still cost around £1000 to build a base unit regardless? 

Plus as far as I am aware with the two APU's that both MS and Sony are using, are hardly off the shelf parts?

 

Not really, here's a mid-range system for ~$400. http://www.makeuseof...-you-can-build/

 

They're not off the shelf parts, but you're still getting less value for your money if they're selling the consoles for a profit. 



#19 Albert

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 16:09

who are these nincompoops kidding? where are the sales numbers to show they are breaking even? oh i forgot. it's not even launched yet. lmfao.



#20 Growled

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 16:30

who are these nincompoops kidding? where are the sales numbers to show they are breaking even? oh i forgot. it's not even launched yet. lmfao.

 

Even after launch we'll never know for real what the true numbers are. Microsoft has been known to fudge on any real numbers.



#21 trooper11

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 16:43

who are these nincompoops kidding? where are the sales numbers to show they are breaking even? oh i forgot. it's not even launched yet. lmfao.

 

 

Um... its a goal for them.

 

Why do you guys have to jump on every little thing that is said? 



#22 JonnyLH

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 16:45

Not really, here's a mid-range system for ~$400. http://www.makeuseof...-you-can-build/

 

They're not off the shelf parts, but you're still getting less value for your money if they're selling the consoles for a profit. 

Completely different, and wouldn't run no where near as fast as the next-gen consoles. Can people stop comparing them to PC's already because they hear x86?



#23 giantpotato

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 17:28

Completely different, and wouldn't run no where near as fast as the next-gen consoles. Can people stop comparing them to PC's already because they hear x86?

That setup has 1.4+ Tflops of compute power, and can easily pull off 720p60 or 1080p30, same as the Xbox One. Yes, the consoles have a different architecture and some specialized chips, but from what we know so far the performance is comparable. 



#24 JonnyLH

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 17:34

That setup has 1.4+ Tflops of compute power, and can easily pull off 720p60 or 1080p30, same as the Xbox One. Yes, the consoles have a different architecture and some specialized chips, but from what we know so far the performance is comparable. 

Not at all. Just because the CPU cores use the same instruction set, it has no bearing on the actual architecture of the system which are all custom built and share hardly any of the buses and data transfer methods of the PC. Then there's the software overheads on the PC with OS's etc. Not comparable, because unlike a console, a PC has a lot else to process while its gaming while a console has specialised parts to offload miscellaneous tasks which are usually handled by the CPU and the GPU. Just because you hear the same TFLOPS number, doesn't mean they're similar by any means. The console has prettier games on much less because it has to work on much less while its playing the game and it also can manage its data much faster compared to the PC.



#25 giantpotato

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:14

Not at all. Just because the CPU cores use the same instruction set, it has no bearing on the actual architecture of the system which are all custom built and share hardly any of the buses and data transfer methods of the PC. Then there's the software overheads on the PC with OS's etc. Not comparable, because unlike a console, a PC has a lot else to process while its gaming while a console has specialised parts to offload miscellaneous tasks which are usually handled by the CPU and the GPU. Just because you hear the same TFLOPS number, doesn't mean they're similar by any means. The console has prettier games on much less because it has to work on much less while its playing the game and it also can manage its data much faster compared to the PC.

 

So does the 3GB of memory reserved for the OS on XBOX One not count as overhead? The XBOX One will have tons of overhead. You can now easily switch out of games and run apps simultaneously. There will be a process constantly recording game video. All those extra features need resources ie. overhead.



#26 JonnyLH

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:15

So does the 3GB of memory reserved for the OS on XBOX One not count as overhead? The XBOX One will have tons of overhead. You can now easily switch out of games and run apps simultaneously. There will be a process constantly recording game video. All those extra features need resources ie. overhead.

Ok then, I'm going to simple this down for you. You build a PC with the equivalent specs of the 360 and tell me if it can run BF3.



#27 giantpotato

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:14

Ok then, I'm going to simple this down for you. You build a PC with the equivalent specs of the 360 and tell me if it can run BF3.

I'm not talking about the 360, I'm talking about the XBOX One. And for your information a Radeon 6470, which has the same compute power as the 360, can indeed run Battlefield 3 at low settings and sub-HD resolution like on the 360.



#28 JonnyLH

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:17

I'm not talking about the 360, I'm talking about the XBOX One. And for your information a Radeon 6470, which has the same compute power as the 360, can indeed run Battlefield 3 at low settings and sub-HD resolution like on the 360.

Its the same principle between all consoles, its not the specific hardware but the ideology of a console and the idea of a fixed platform. Why do you think the consoles were the bar setters in 2005 & 2006? Sub HD? BF runs at 720p and with the equivalent hardware of the 360, you'd be really struggling to hit the same fidelity which is on the 360 game at 30fps. Obviously you won't consider any opinion other than your own, so there's no point me even talking to you about this. If off the shelf parts performed the same as a custom architecture, why would MS invest 3 billion into AMD and have IBM co-produce a hefty SoC which has high production costs and potential failure rates? Logic man.



#29 trooper11

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:21

Oh my goodness, you pc guys needs to lay off it, seriously.

 

Make a thread for these endless comparisons and keep it there.

 

I do a lot of pc gaming but people trying to argue for or against pc gaming vs consoles is just tiring. Consoles are closed systems with custom hardware.  No matter how similar to pc hardware they get, the fact that they are custom and unchanging for the life of the device means certain advantages and disadvantages.  Same goes for the pc, which enjoys an open system using parts that are aimed at general pc performance, not tuned to a single focus.  This leads to its own advantages and disadvantages.



#30 giantpotato

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:13

Its the same principle between all consoles, its not the specific hardware but the ideology of a console and the idea of a fixed platform. Why do you think the consoles were the bar setters in 2005 & 2006? Sub HD? BF runs at 720p and with the equivalent hardware of the 360, you'd be really struggling to hit the same fidelity which is on the 360 game at 30fps. Obviously you won't consider any opinion other than your own, so there's no point me even talking to you about this. If off the shelf parts performed the same as a custom architecture, why would MS invest 3 billion into AMD and have IBM co-produce a hefty SoC which has high production costs and potential failure rates? Logic man.

And we've come full circle. Consoles were the bar setters in 2005 because they had superior hardware compared to PCs at the time. They sold at a loss then. That's not the case this generation. The console's are not even out and we're already hearing some games won't do 1080p. Last generation all launch games did 720p, then over time some games started rendering in sub-HD to give better looking graphics at the expense of resolution. Battlefield 3 is one of those games, it is rendered at 1280x704. Some games like Halo go as low as 540p. I don't doubt custom architecture will perform better than off-the-shelf, but that can only go so far. 

 

I don't care if PC is better than XBOX or vice-versa, my point is that Microsoft could have custom designed hardware that guarantees 1080p60 and sold it at a loss this generation, but they didn't.