us At least one shot at US Navy base in Washington DC

[He's Dead Jim]

I always want to know the motive behind this sort of senseless murder, it was obviously premeditated. It is always annoying to me when they kill the guy before finding out.

 

 

Off topic to the Gun control debate people. 

 

Link to some stats, sort by Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

 

Compare the Homicide by firearm Rate in USA to England, and Australia which have tight gun control laws. The fact that there is less homicides in the westbank and Gaza by guns than the USA says something.

It's a good point you make.

 

but it's also quite a statistically sad situation.

[Noir Angel]

Pow pow pow
 

That's the sound of more innocent lives being lost to a shooting spree in gunmerica.

[DocM]

When you figure in the US rate of 2.97/100,000 you must also take into account that about 2/3 of those are suicides and the stat also includes justifiable homicides - police actions, self defense etc. which amount to a few hundred a year.

Now you're well under 1/100,000 that are criminal acts, and most of those are gang war casualties and they 1) don't give a f**k about gun laws and 2) have extra-legal sources for their weapons.

[fusi0n]

Can't we just get along :D

 

[KingCracker]

Surprise, surprise He had mental health issues, He was hearing voices in his head. He also had an incident of road rage and shot out someones tires. How he was allowed to get or keep that gun is beyond me but as i've stated before someone could easily buy one on the street regardless of laws so I don't think there's much we could of done anyway. But going back to the Clinton one of his first acts as president was to disarm military personnel on bases.

[DocM]

And that cost lives here and at Ft. Hood.

[DocM]

So, he took a shotgun in and acquired the other weapons from wounded guards etc. as he went.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1

CNN -

>

...... federal law enforcement sources told CNN Tuesday that authorities have recovered three weapons from the scene of the mass shooting, including one -- a shotgun -- that investigators believe Alexis brought in to the compound. The other two weapons, which sources say were handguns, may have been taken from guards at the Navy complex.

The sources, who have detailed knowledge of the investigation, cautioned that initial information that an AR-15 was used in the shootings may have been incorrect. It is believed that Alexis had rented an AR-15, but returned it before Monday morning's shootings. Authorities are still investigating precisely how many weapons Alexis had access to and when.

>

Also, again we have someone with mental problems (hearing voices - schizophrenia?) who somehow skated the system to get a permit he shouldn't have had AND he got a security clearance & contracting job at a high security installation.

This sounds like so many other incidents where neon signs were flashing & red flags were waving but the bureaucrats dropped the ball.

[Lord Method Man]

So, he took a shotgun in and acquired the other weapons from wounded guards etc. as he went.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1

 

 

Uncle Joe said to get yourself a shotgun.

[KingCracker]

So he took a shotgun.. Even anti gunners say it's ok to have shotguns..

[DocM]

Yup, shotguns are politically correct with the ignorant anti-gun crowd like Biden and many here, even though they are hands-down the deadliest close quarters weapon you can get.

[Growled Member]

I find this tweet interesting:

 

 

The Navy Yard is a gun-free zone, which is also known as a free-fire zone for bad guys. They always go after soft targets.

 

https://twitter.com/RickMoore/statuses/379622562755383299

[DocM]

I find this tweet interesting:

https://twitter.com/RickMoore/statuses/379622562755383299

So, so true. Might as well put up a sign "whack job shooting gallery."

[FlintyV]

So, so true. Might as well put up a sign "whack job shooting gallery."

 

Yup, the problem is there's not enough guns there.

 

Sure, yea that's where it all went wrong. 

 

Also, the fact that he'd had run in with the law before, mental problems and still has security clearance he wasn't really entitled too probably played a part in it. 

 

Not all matters go away when you just arm more people you know and overly simplistic tweets like that are just silly. 

[DocM]

Defense 101: if there is the possibility of an action by an opposing force you MUST be prepared to respond with an effective counter-force.

History has proven schools, bases and other soft targets are prone to be victimized by crazies, and just this week AQ told its followers to go for many small targets instead of large ones.

In both cases the only effective counter-force is not a few rent-a-cops but larger number of armed responders distributed around the facility so yes, "more guns."

[Lord Method Man]

http://news.yahoo.com/gunman-opens-fire-navy-yard-washington-d-c-021732377.html

 

The Army was warned in advance about Nidal Hassan. The feds were warned about the Tsarnevs, and now we hear the Navy was warned about this guy. In all cases nothing was done.

 

Tell me again why the NSA spying on everyone will somehow keep us safe when blatant threats such as these go ignored?

[Noir Angel]

Defense 101: if there is the possibility of an action by an opposing force you MUST be prepared to respond with an effective counter-force.

History has proven schools, bases and other soft targets are prone to be victimized by crazies, and just this week AQ told its followers to go for many small targets instead of large ones.

In both cases the only effective counter-force is not a few rent-a-cops but larger number of armed responders distributed around the facility so yes, "more guns."

 

Strange, since Dunblane and the ban on firearms there hasn't been another shooting spree in a school here since. Also, I personally don't really like shotguns more than any other guns but I'm not so bothered about them in the UK because the licensing rules on them are incredibly strict, pretty much any criminal record (even for minor crime) is likely to get a person refused a shotgun license, and you have to prove that you still have legitimate reasons for owning them or your licenses get revoked. Besides, pretty much all of the tiny amount of gun death we get over here is caused by black market pistols.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

The system has seriously failed for the fact that this guy was able to get into a secure naval base in Washington DC and kill 13 people!

[FlintyV]

The system has seriously failed for the fact that this guy was able to get into a secure naval base in Washington DC and kill 13 people!

 

Absolutely and the whole thing really looks like a complete shambles.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

Joe Biden's advice wasn't such good advice now

http://youtu.be/wIuk3G9Xixc?t=1m7s

[KingCracker]

Strange, since Dunblane and the ban on firearms there hasn't been another shooting spree in a school here since. Also, I personally don't really like shotguns more than any other guns but I'm not so bothered about them in the UK because the licensing rules on them are incredibly strict, pretty much any criminal record (even for minor crime) is likely to get a person refused a shotgun license, and you have to prove that you still have legitimate reasons for owning them or your licenses get revoked. Besides, pretty much all of the tiny amount of gun death we get over here is caused by black market pistols.

Strange that you try to compare the U.S to the U.K. The Cultural differences between the two are different and no matter of scoffing at us,insulting us and telling us we're all murderers is going to change that. It's also strange that you think the millions of guns in circulation could all be rounded up, its also strange that you think that rules to have all guns put in storage would actually work with the amount of guns in circulation. It's very strange that you think criminals would follow that law. It's bizarre to me that you think that mass killings would stop with gun laws..

[DocM]

Yup, and in Michigan the deadliest school attack was done with explosives, and anyone with normal kitchen & garage chemicals can make those - or poison gas. Those prone to be attackers will find a way.

Means aren't the problem, there are many ways to kill in large numbers. Ignoring the red flags that Person X is a ticking time bomb is.

[FloatingFatMan]

It's bizarre to me that you think that mass killings would stop with gun laws..

 

UK people tend to think that because strict gun control essentially DID put a stop to mass killings, not that we really had a multitude of them in the first place.

 

What most Brits don't take into account is the vast difference in cultures. What worked for us isn't going to work for you, which is why I don't bother telling you guys to give up your guns.  I take a different tactic, and tell you that if you want to keep them, then you have to live with mass shootings. :p

[DocM]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/politics/us-navy-shootings-security/index.html?c=politics

Washington (CNN) - Dozens of convicted felons got unescorted access to Navy installations for weeks and even years because an outside company hired to save money issued temporary credentials to contractors before completing proper background checks, according to a federal audit released on Tuesday.

The Pentagon inspector general's audit also found the program intended to save money probably wound up costing tax dollars instead.

Coming a day after a contractor opened fire at the Washington Navy Yard, killing 12 people and dying himself, the audit amounted to a powerful indictment of security measures at Navy facilities as Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel prepares to order a worldwide review of security at military bases.

>

[Growled Member]

What most Brits don't take into account is the vast difference in cultures. What worked for us isn't going to work for you, which is why I don't bother telling you guys to give up your guns.  I take a different tactic, and tell you that if you want to keep them, then you have to live with mass shootings. 

 

Personally, I think every adult in America should be issued a gun and taught how to use it. That way, anyone who wants to mass shoot us, we all can shoot back. :P

[Lord Method Man]

The system has seriously failed for the fact that this guy was able to get into a secure naval base in Washington DC and kill 13 people!

 

Why is it he passed a background check to work on a military base without them finding any of this crazy crap in his past, but hours after the shooting the media was able to tell us everything there ever was to know about the guy?