157 posts in this topic

Actually it's about facts.  And facts state that Apple computers last longer than their windows counterparts, they have much less chance of getting viruses and are built to a higher standar.  These are all facts, not just opinions.  Apple is known for their rigorious standards and just like the iPhone, iMacs are built to such high standards.  Customer satisfaction is a major factor as well.  Some people buy Apple products because of what they represent but the majority of them buy it because of their value. 

 

Sure, they cost more than windows machines, but they have added value to it.

I support macs, I have seen brand new mac book pro retinas not work right out of the box. Don't give me this crap about them lasting longer or higher quality because that's not true. They die just as fast as Windows Machines. The virus thing is all due to market share. Its got nothing to do with it being more secure or not. If you were a virus writer what platform would you write viruses for that would do the most damage? The one with the most market share. Again customer satisfaction is subjective. I swear you must work for apple or used to work for them because you sound brained wash just like all their employees.

 

The only point I am willing to concede on is that Apple has a better out of box experience in terms of initial machine setup. That's about it, and that's only due to them not loading junkware on the machine like the other OEMS do with their bloat. If the other OEMs removed their crapware or never install it to begin with PCs would have a drastically better experience. Either way its a moot point for me since I clean install anyways.

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I support macs, I have seen brand new mac book pro retinas not work right out of the box. Don't give me this crap about them lasting longer or higher quality because that's not true. They die just as fast as Windows Machines. The virus thing is all due to market share. Its got nothing to do with it being more secure or not. If you were a virus writer what platform would you write viruses for that would do the most damage? The one with the most market share. Again customer satisfaction is subjective. I swear you must work for apple or used to work for them because you sound brained wash just like all their employees.

 

The only point I am willing to concede on is that Apple has a better out of box experience in terms of initial machine setup. That's about it, and that's only due to them not loading junkware on the machine like the other OEMS do with their bloat. If the other OEMs removed their crapware or never install it to begin with PCs would have a drastically better experience. Either way its a moot point for me since I clean install anyways.

 

As for security, a new mac, out of the box, will not run unsigned code. Therefore no virus can run (unless they find a vulnerability in the code-signing mechanism, which they haven't afaik).

 

I'm also going to divert this thread back on topic - it has been derailed something terrible for the sake of arguing.

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For everyone complaining about the price, for the 27" a screen like the one built in is close to $1000 alone (part of the reason I went for one instead of Mac Mini or Pro)

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As for security, a new mac, out of the box, will not run unsigned code. Therefore no virus can run (unless they find a vulnerability in the code-signing mechanism, which they haven't afaik).

 

I'm also going to divert this thread back on topic - it has been derailed something terrible for the sake of arguing.

talking about the gate keeper thing? There was an exploit early on that let things get past it. Overall it just gets in the way and makes the user think their apps dont work when they do. We get this on a daily basis in our support center.

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And for the "premium parts" argument, a $299 Dell that has 4 GB of memory is not using the best memory out there.  This is what people mean by quality components.  If you did a Newegg search, is every stick of 2GB memory the same price?  No.  Some are better quality than others.

 

Is every 500W power supply the same quality and the same price?  No, some companies you avoid, and some companies are known to produce quality PSUs.  

 

THIS is what people mean by premium parts.  They do not slap the cheapest PSU, RAM, ... out there, they go for higher quality ones.

Apple isn't using top of the line RAM either...

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i dont remember that ever happening,unless god forbid i missed one of your replies.

 

 

so what if its an "IGP". do you know whats under the hood? yes the ram bandwidth is 25GB/S intel vs 50GB/S for the amd, but the iris pro has 128MB EDRAM Cache,which is huge and brings the bandwidth to parity.

 

the 6750m has 480 shaders vs 320 on the intel, but the intel is running at more than twice the clock speed (600mhz vs 1300mhz). so normalized to the same clock (600mhz), we're talking 480 amd vs ~700 intel.

 

 

 

i never said the 6750m was bad at all. its a very good graphics chip,but people are blindly dismissing the intel chip, maybe because they dont know about it and assume just because its integrated,it must suck.

 

the 6750m get around 1150 on 3D Mark 11

intel HD4000 gets around 800 on 3d Mark 11

 

intel claims the iris pro gets 2x the benchmark of hd4000 on 3d Mark 11, so we can calculate 800x2 = 1600.  1600>1150.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/16

 

It gets more than 1600.

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There really is no direct competitor to the iMac.

 

 

And facts state that Apple computers last longer than their windows counterparts

 

If there is no competitor to an iMac, why are you comparing an iMac competitor to the iMac?

 

 

 

You didn't get it.  It's not about market share

 

With the Surface line of computers, it is not about market share, it is about giving users the best possible computing experience - and Surface is a success at that.

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For everyone complaining about the price, for the 27" a screen like the one built in is close to $1000 alone (part of the reason I went for one instead of Mac Mini or Pro)

 

You can pick up an equivalent / superior 27" screen starting at around ?449 or $700 (PB278Q or U2713HM for example).

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You can pick up an equivalent / superior 27" screen starting at around ?449 or $700 (PB278Q or U2713HM for example).

 

Made of aluminium? With every component built into the back of it?

 

I doubt it. Yeah, I could build a plastic box with separate monitor and tower cheaper. To use a car analogy, I can buy a ford mustang, or a Porche 911. Ford is much cheaper, will be faster in a straight line but the Porsche looks nicer, is made better, and comes with premium service. You can't compare them.

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Made of aluminium? With every component built into the back of it?

 

I doubt it. Yeah, I could build a plastic box with separate monitor and tower cheaper. To use a car analogy, I can buy a ford mustang, or a Porche 911. Ford is much cheaper, will be faster in a straight line but the Porsche looks nicer, is made better, and comes with premium service. You can't compare them.

If you want your analogy to be (more) accurate, that Porsche would need to have a Ford engine and suspension in it.

 

A more accurate analogy would be that you can have a Fiero, or you can have one of these for 30% more cost:

zorba-g40-murcielago-kit-car_1.jpg

 

Deep down, they are both the same thing.

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I support macs, I have seen brand new mac book pro retinas not work right out of the box. Don't give me this crap about them lasting longer or higher quality because that's not true. They die just as fast as Windows Machines. The virus thing is all due to market share. Its got nothing to do with it being more secure or not. If you were a virus writer what platform would you write viruses for that would do the most damage? The one with the most market share. Again customer satisfaction is subjective. I swear you must work for apple or used to work for them because you sound brained wash just like all their employees.

The only point I am willing to concede on is that Apple has a better out of box experience in terms of initial machine setup. That's about it, and that's only due to them not loading junkware on the machine like the other OEMS do with their bloat. If the other OEMs removed their crapware or never install it to begin with PCs would have a drastically better experience. Either way its a moot point for me since I clean install anyways.

Actually they do last longer and are built to higher quality. Also Apple has amazing customer satisfaction. These are all facts based on consumer feedback and plain numbers. Use google, it can be your friend.

We have all seen broken iMacs. They all exist, like broken iPhones and broken iPads. I sure don't work for apple but not giving then credit for the quality of their engineering is simply delusional.

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Made of aluminium? With every component built into the back of it?

 

I doubt it. Yeah, I could build a plastic box with separate monitor and tower cheaper. To use a car analogy, I can buy a ford mustang, or a Porche 911. Ford is much cheaper, will be faster in a straight line but the Porsche looks nicer, is made better, and comes with premium service. You can't compare them.

 

The form factor is irrelevant to me, I desire performance, reliability and value for money. I don't expect you to have read my comments earlier in this thread but to recap:
 
I'm not interested in aesthetics, I want performance and reliability. Building the system isn't a chore to me and I'm also content with manufacturer?s component warranties. To me, the aesthetics look is a minimal consideration for a personal computer purchase, it's what's going on beneath the chassis that matters as far as I'm concerned.
 
I get it, I understand why some consumers leap to this as an ideal PC but it's not for me. Criticising my comments based on form factor / aluminium is ridiculous, it means absolutely nothing to me. 
 
Stripping away the aluminium, is there something special I should see? Because other than a non-upgradeable form factor whose internals therein utilise standard PC components, parts that are available for purchase to one and all thankfully at uninflated prices on every shelf in every store, I can?t see much that isn?t in a regular PC. So why on earth would I be tempted to purchase an iMac when I can build a far more impressive system for a few hundred pounds less? 

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Apple isn't using top of the line RAM either...

 

Did I say it was?  It is probably using better ram than that $299 Dell.

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Did I say it was?  It is probably using better ram than that $299 Dell.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

 

I know Apple uses Hynix in some (if not all) of their machines.

 

I doubt Dell's memory is any more generic.

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The form factor is irrelevant to me, I desire performance, reliability and value for money. I don't expect you to have read my comments earlier in this thread but to recap:
 
I'm not interested in aesthetics, I want performance and reliability. Building the system isn't a chore to me and I'm also content with manufacturer?s component warranties. To me, the aesthetics look is a minimal consideration for a personal computer purchase, it's what's going on beneath the chassis that matters as far as I'm concerned.
 
I get it, I understand why some consumers leap to this as an ideal PC but it's not for me. Criticising my comments based on form factor / aluminium is ridiculous, it means absolutely nothing to me. 
 
Stripping away the aluminium, is there something special I should see? Because other than a non-upgradeable form factor whose internals therein utilise standard PC components, parts that are available for purchase to one and all thankfully at uninflated prices on every shelf in every store, I can?t see much that isn?t in a regular PC. So why on earth would I be tempted to purchase an iMac when I can build a far more impressive system for a few hundred pounds less? 

 

 

My point is that you need to take everything into account. You can't just say "it's expensive because I don't care about a part of it". I could go buy a machine with a ridiculously powerful graphics card and then say "it's expensive because I don't care about the graphics card".

 

What you desire isn't what everyone wants. Taking everything into account - you can't buy a machine with the same levels of design/styling/build quality as the iMac. I'm sorry, but you can't. To me, specs come second. Hence why I use Macs, and drive an Alfa - I appreciate design as much as, if not more than, everything else.

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As I've already said, I understand why the appeal exists, for those consumers such as yourself, the aesthetics, the simplicity, the style and the experience rule supreme. For those, like myself, of paramount importance is the perspective to look coldly at the quality of the components, their specifications, performance and ultimately cost.  So when I remove what to me is a superficial look and unappealing form factor from the equation, the fact remains that it's very easy to assemble a superior performing PC with higher quality components for a lower price hence why I do not have a Mac.

 

Enjoy your PC and I'll enjoy mine.

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not disagreeing with you, i just wanted to make a point that the intel chip shouldnt just be dismissed as crap just because it is integrated.

Again you fail to understand that Intel is simply playing a catch up with a 2.5 year old technology. Apple should have gone with Geforce 770M or similar to justify the pricing.

So even after 2 years, we are getting an iMac with roughly the same graphical power of the one they released 2 years ago! Great progress.

CPU power is irrelevant these days as long as it's a decent one. Its the graphics power that decides the longevity of a computer. My personal opinion though.

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Actually they do last longer and are built to higher quality. Also Apple has amazing customer satisfaction. These are all facts based on consumer feedback and plain numbers. Use google, it can be your friend.

We have all seen broken iMacs. They all exist, like broken iPhones and broken iPads. I sure don't work for apple but not giving then credit for the quality of their engineering is simply delusional.

 

i haven't had a positive experience with an apple, which has included a full size ipod, ipod nano, ipod shuffle, imac, and macbook.. every single one of them have failed me with no help from apple. The only product that i ever owned from apple that never failed me was a Performa 630CD

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i haven't had a positive experience with an apple, which has included a full size ipod, ipod nano, ipod shuffle, imac, and macbook.. every single one of them have failed me with no help from apple. The only product that i ever owned from apple that never failed me was a Performa 630CD

Sounds like you have incredibly awful luck. :ermm:

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Sounds like you have incredibly awful luck. :ermm:

i guess. hard disk in ipod broke, ipod nano and shuffle both just stopped operating. imac had a bad screen and macbook's hinge broke. but easily their worst product ever was the mighty mouse with that uncleanable ball in it.

 

I've had enough of apple and their overpriced crap. aestheics aren't enough to keep my money coming in. They need to focus on the basics.

 

edit..

 

and for all the making fun of everyone who thought that ios7 would make their portable devices water proof i've just got one question. Why the hell, on a premium device, that requires no air flow  is it *not* water proof. Could you imagine buying a rolex and finding out it's not waterproof? you wash your hands and your several thousand dollar watch is just broke. You wouldn't stand for that.. but for some reason on these iOS devices you do.

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i guess. hard disk in ipod broke, ipod nano and shuffle both just stopped operating. imac had a bad screen and macbook's hinge broke. but easily their worst product ever was the mighty mouse with that uncleanable ball in it.

 

I've had enough of apple and their overpriced crap. aestheics aren't enough to keep my money coming in. They need to focus on the basics.

 

edit..

 

and for all the making fun of everyone who thought that ios7 would make their portable devices water proof i've just got one question. Why the hell, on a premium device, that requires no air flow  is it *not* water proof. Could you imagine buying a rolex and finding out it's not waterproof? you wash your hands and your several thousand dollar watch is just broke. You wouldn't stand for that.. but for some reason on these iOS devices you do.

So why are you in this thread? Not to be rude, but you apparently have no interest in these products whatsoever so why bother posting your complaints about products you don't use?

 

That's the part I'm finding confusing here.

 

I'd give your post more credibility too if reviews I've seen off numerous websites didn't speak volumes about the products overall. Price is a concern sure, but quality I've never really seen much of a concern with, beyond what you might normally run into with electronics in general. Anyone working IT can tell you PCs are far from perfect just the same so the complaint is rather moot anyway. Welcome to the world of electronics. Things aren't always rainbows and lollipops here.

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So why are you in this thread? Not to be rude, but you apparently have no interest in these products whatsoever so why bother posting your complaints about products you don't use?

 

That's the part I'm finding confusing here.

 

I'd give your post more credibility too if reviews I've seen off numerous websites didn't speak volumes about the products overall. Price is a concern sure, but quality I've never really seen much of a concern with, beyond what you might normally run into with electronics in general. Anyone working IT can tell you PCs are far from perfect just the same so the complaint is rather moot anyway. Welcome to the world of electronics. Things aren't always rainbows and lollipops here.

 

for premium prices i expect things to be rainbows and lollipops

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for premium prices i expect things to be rainbows and lollipops

 

So you expect a 100% success rate in electronics?

 

No matter how much somebody charges you, there is never a 100% success rate in electronics.

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for premium prices i expect things to be rainbows and lollipops

Personally that's a little unrealistic, hardware is hardware, anything can fail no matter what you paid for it.. I do expect at premium prices to have stellar service in the event of a failure though, have that replacement out the door ASAFP, preferably with rainbows and lollypops packaged with it in lieu of an apology.

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