imac Apple launches faster iMacs with 802.11ac WiFi, Pro graphics, improved Flas

[DeadEndAccount]

I love that folk think this is something new. Apple`s been doing this for years. The only difference now is that there using more parts based on/or which are off the shelf. Intel processors etc. Apple is not just a tech company, but a designer tech company. They love the idea of a closed loop system of software and hardware, so comparing off the shelve PC hardware to there versions of it isnt exactly fair. They spend a lot of effort of form factor and other design points, a lot more than your component producers.

I personally dont feel this constitutes the daft prices they ask, but I can see how and why there set at what they are.

 

The use of off the shelf components pre-dates their Intel shift; when Steve came back the only thing that was different between the PC world and Mac's was that Mac's used a PowerPC CPU, a custom chipset and OpenBoot firmware - everything else was off the shelf bog standard components; Broadcom wireless, Marvell ethernet, nVidia/ATI GPU, mainstream DIMM/SODIMM, IDE/SATA etc. When there was the transition to Intel Steve once again re-enforced that the heart of a Mac is Mac OS X (later shortened OS X) - it really comes down to whether you want Mac OS X and the styling of Apple over a PC running Windows. If you believe that the price difference between a PC running Windows and a Mac with Mac OS X because Mac OS X is valuable enough then people will make the decision they do. People here seem to keep ignoring that it is Mac OS X that people want - that is where the value is and that is why Apple don't want it on non-Apple branded hardware.

[xWhiplash]

Also, I love the fact that people say they can build a MUCH better Mac Pro for less than $1,000.

 

Yeah, good luck considering that the processor alone is over $600.  

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117242

 

Apple is NO different than Dell, HP, ...

 

Is it cheaper to build your own system?  Of course.

 

Is it cheaper to build your own system than a Dell?  Yes.

 

Why is this such an issue?  Apple does not charge THAT MUCH more than any of these other companies.  And that can be a result from the quality build (NOTE:  Casing, not components).

 

I fail to see how Apple is over priced.  If you do not care for their quality cases and designs, that does not matter.

 

This is like somebody saying NVIDIA and ATI are severely overpriced since the only thing they play is Minecraft.

 

This is like somebody saying an i7 is severely overpriced since the only thing they do is browse Facebook.

 

Yet you will find somebody where one Titan is not enough to get Max on every thing, and somebody that does video rendering where even an i7 is not fast enough.

[PyX]

I am eagerly waiting for my new 27-inch iMac :

- 3.4 GHz Core i5

- 3 TB Fusion Drive

- 32 GB of memory bought off OWC

- nVidia GFX 780 w/ 4GB of video RAM

 

:)

 

Oh also, stop this Mac vs PC debate, it's useless. If I've learned one thing in life, it's that no matter how much time and energy you want to spend, you can't convince a hater or a lover from the opposite.

[adrynalyne]

Also, I love the fact that people say they can build a MUCH better Mac Pro for less than $1,000.

 

Yeah, good luck considering that the processor alone is over $600.  

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117242

 

Apple is NO different than Dell, HP, ...

 

Is it cheaper to build your own system?  Of course.

 

Is it cheaper to build your own system than a Dell?  Yes.

 

Why is this such an issue?  Apple does not charge THAT MUCH more than any of these other companies.  And that can be a result from the quality build (NOTE:  Casing, not components).

 

I fail to see how Apple is over priced.  If you do not care for their quality cases and designs, that does not matter.

 

This is like somebody saying NVIDIA and ATI are severely overpriced since the only thing they play is Minecraft.

 

This is like somebody saying an i7 is severely overpriced since the only thing they do is browse Facebook.

 

Yet you will find somebody where one Titan is not enough to get Max on every thing, and somebody that does video rendering where even an i7 is not fast enough.

This thread isn't about the Mac Pro...

[xWhiplash]

This thread isn't about the Mac Pro...

 

This thread is not about how severely overpriced Apple products are either, but you guys turned it into that.  My point is the iMac is not OMG SEVERELY.....MASSIVELY overpriced.  My point is, just like how you guys built a "supposed" iMac that was $600 are forgetting A LOT.  What you built from Newegg is NOT an all in one computer.  It is NOT using the same material for the case.  It is NOT an IPS display.  Yet you guys always forget to take that into consideration when you build your MASSIVELY LESS pricey system.

 

Just like how you guys supposedly built a "much better" system than the iMac, you are forgetting the FORM FACTOR.  Just like that guy that said to me he could build a better system than the Mac Pro is forgetting these are XEONS.

 

This is why I mentioned the Mac Pro.  I have had people tell me they can build a better computer than the Mac Pro for $500, yet the processor alone is $600+.  You guys REALLY need to do a proper comparison.  Apple is no more overpriced than Dell, HP, Lenovo, ...  They DO need to make a profit, otherwise there will be no company.

[adrynalyne]

This thread is not about how severely overpriced Apple products are either, but you guys turned it into that.  My point is the iMac is not OMG SEVERELY.....MASSIVELY overpriced.  My point is, just like how you guys built a "supposed" iMac that was $600 are forgetting A LOT.  What you built from Newegg is NOT an all in one computer.  It is NOT using the same material for the case.  It is NOT an IPS display.  Yet you guys always forget to take that into consideration when you build your MASSIVELY LESS pricey system.

 

Just like how you guys supposedly built a "much better" system than the iMac, you are forgetting the FORM FACTOR.  Just like that guy that said to me he could build a better system than the Mac Pro is forgetting these are XEONS.

 

This is why I mentioned the Mac Pro.  I have had people tell me they can build a better computer than the Mac Pro for $500, yet the processor alone is $600+.  You guys REALLY need to do a proper comparison.  Apple is no more overpriced than Dell, HP, Lenovo, ...  They DO need to make a profit, otherwise there will be no company.

Nobody HERE told you that a Mac Pro could be built for that...

 

You can't choose some of their products and say they aren't massively overpriced...

 

Stop cherry picking and you will see that they are indeed overpriced for a brand name.

 

At the end of the day, you can save a lot of money by not buying a brand name and pretty case (because after all it is the internals that really matter), or you can buy a brand name and get something that is pretty to look at, but performs just the same as the prior.

[xWhiplash]

Nobody HERE told you that a Mac Pro could be built for that...

 

You can't choose some of their products and say they aren't massively overpriced...

 

Stop cherry picking and you will see that they are indeed overpriced for a brand name.

 

At the end of the day, you can save a lot of money by not buying a brand name and pretty case (because after all it is the internals that really matter), or you can buy a brand name and get something that is pretty to look at, but performs just the same as the prior.

 

Geez ever heard of examples? Did I say that somebody here said that?  No.  I was giving an EXAMPLE where somebody does not take things into consideration when making these statements that Apple products are thousands and thousands of dollars overpriced.  But people HERE said that Apple products are generally overpriced, and posted useless newegg links when the FORM FACTOR does not match.

 

None of their products are massively overpriced.  Look at what you get.  That was my entire point about the Mac Pro discussion.  

 

Okay then for once show me an All In One that matches the iMac that is MASSIVELY....MASSIVELY cheaper.  You have not done that.  The only ones I can find are just a couple hundred cheaper.  

 

You CANNOT compare an iMac to a desktop.  They are different form factors.  This is like comparing a laptop to a desktop.  Oh but I guess you consider every single laptop available to be overpriced?  I can build a much better desktop for way cheaper than any laptop though!!!  Compare iMac to other AIO systems.  

 

Again.  It is cheaper to build a computer yourself than to buy a Dell.  Or HP.  Or Sony.  Or Lenovo.  So why the hell was this even brought up?  Of course companies charge more.  They need to MAKE A PROFIT.

[Anibal P]

And for the "premium parts" argument, a $299 Dell that has 4 GB of memory is not using the best memory out there.  This is what people mean by quality components.  If you did a Newegg search, is every stick of 2GB memory the same price?  No.  Some are better quality than others.

 

Is every 500W power supply the same quality and the same price?  No, some companies you avoid, and some companies are known to produce quality PSUs.  

 

THIS is what people mean by premium parts.  They do not slap the cheapest PSU, RAM, ... out there, they go for higher quality ones.

 

Umm Dell and Apple both use the same brand RAM Hynix, Apple just charges three times what it's worth, but it's all the same thing

[Anibal P]

You've posted this more than once, so I guess you felt that you're making a really good point.

 

For the display you listed, I can't find anything on Newegg or Asus's sites that say that it's an IPS display, so if you go with an IPS display like in the iMac, you're going to have to add another $50-$100. You've also left out (maybe conveniently) a Wireless AC dongle, which a reliable one cost north of $60. Finally, since a $20 upgrade copy of Mountain Lion is useless for that build, you would have to buy a full license for Windows 8 Pro which runs at $139. Yeah, you could settle for a different SKU of Windows 8 that's cheaper, but there are features in Mountain Lion whose Windows counterpart is only available in the Pro edition.

 

Now you're $643 computer is a $892 usable computer at the minimum. But since you're not a business, you don't have to figure in the cost of things like putting those parts together, installing the OS, paying all of your employees, marketing to put your computer in front of people, keeping the lights on, the water running, etc.

 

In my adolescent years, I use to run around places like Neowin saying, "LOL APPLE TAX LOL," but it wasn't until I started managing business did I start to understand why companies charge what they charge. 

 

 

 

 

I think it's funny, maybe even kind of sad, that you spent all of this money on something, and you don't even realize what you have. Was it an impulse buy?

 

Since you only mentioned the case, the thing you see, I assume that you haven't ripped an iMac open. When yours takes a dump on you, I suggest that you do. I ripped an older iMac open, and the only thing in there that was off the shelf/OEM was the HDD, optical drive (which had been modified so it can fit in the case), processor and RAM. There was nothing Newegg.com about the power supply, logic board, screen, wireless/bluetooth chips, graphics chip, the fans/cooling system, and how all of that stuff is put together to work. So please, follow your own advise about making partially false claims about the iMac before you try to call others out since you just proved that you spend over $1k for some thing you don't even know what you have. 

 

I didn't pay for the iMac, it was a hand me down when someone else spent the money for an upgrade

I like OS X, it has it's good points, it's really too bad Apple insists on overpricing their hardware, they might get less hate if their prices were more realistic

 

 

As for the screens, look harder:

 

http://www.amazon.com/QNIX-QX2710-Evolution-LED-Monitor/dp/B00BUI44US?ie=UTF8&qid=1380586045&sr=8-1&keywords=qnix&tag=webtoolandtec-20

 

Same panel that Dell and Apple use, less gloss just as good, cheaper

[Kalint]

foxconn mother board  $69

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186235

processor 199

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116896

2x4gb ram  82

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211769

cooler master case with built in power supply $80

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=11-119-270&SortField=3&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Keywords=%28keywords%29#scrollFullInfo

asus moniter with built in speakers $104

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236100R

logitech keyboard and mouse  $20

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126097

1TB WD HDD $69

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339

mac osx mountain lion $20

grand total.  $643

Apple's Asking price $1300

I know for a fact iMacs are higher res than 1080p

[xWhiplash]

I didn't pay for the iMac, it was a hand me down when someone else spent the money for an upgrade

I like OS X, it has it's good points, it's really too bad Apple insists on overpricing their hardware, they might get less hate if their prices were more realistic

 

 

As for the screens, look harder:

 

http://www.amazon.com/QNIX-QX2710-Evolution-LED-Monitor/dp/B00BUI44US?ie=UTF8&qid=1380586045&sr=8-1&keywords=qnix&tag=webtoolandtec-20

 

Same panel that Dell and Apple use, less gloss just as good, cheaper

 

Again, any proof that any Apple products are overpriced?

 

So I guess you consider every single manufacturer overpriced then?  Dell, Lenovo, HP, Sony, ...  Just hop on Newegg and I can build a system cheaper than anything they offer too.  So why not hate on Dell too?

 

All of these are close to the same price as the iMac.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=83-220-351

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=83-220-371

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-27-2720-aio/pd?oc=fdcwlt14b&model_id=xps-27-2720-aio

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/ideacentre/a-series/a730/

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-ENVY/D6U53AV?HP-ENVY-23-d260qd-TouchSmart-All-in-One-Desktop-PC-ENERGY-STAR-

 

I could not see a 27" AIO from HP.

 

So again, how is Apple SEVERELY overpriced again?

[PyX]

cooler master case with built in power supply $80

 

 

Because we all know that's what iMacs look like, and we all know iMacs are highly dependent on plastic materials.

[adrynalyne]

Umm Dell and Apple both use the same brand RAM Hynix, Apple just charges three times what it's worth, but it's all the same thing

Thank you.  I said this earlier, but he conveniently skimmed over it.

 

So many people think that Apple is putting premium parts in their machines when it is the same generic stuff that other OEMs use.

[adrynalyne]

Again, any proof that any Apple products are overpriced?

 

So I guess you consider every single manufacturer overpriced then?  Dell, Lenovo, HP, Sony, ...  Just hop on Newegg and I can build a system cheaper than anything they offer too.  So why not hate on Dell too?

 

All of these are close to the same price as the iMac.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=83-220-351

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=83-220-371

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-27-2720-aio/pd?oc=fdcwlt14b&model_id=xps-27-2720-aio

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/ideacentre/a-series/a730/

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-ENVY/D6U53AV?HP-ENVY-23-d260qd-TouchSmart-All-in-One-Desktop-PC-ENERGY-STAR-

 

I could not see a 27" AIO from HP.

 

So again, how is Apple SEVERELY overpriced again?

 

 

Well, lets compare here.

 

I'll just choose one because I don't feel like beating a dead horse.

 

 

From your links:

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/ideacentre/a-series/a730/

 

1549 vs Apple's 1799 gives you twice the memory on the GPU, a blu ray drive , and an i7 (vs i5).

 

I can't even upgrade to an i7 for under 2199 from Apple.

 

 

Yet you sit there and have the nerve to say they aren't more expensive.

[xWhiplash]

Well, lets compare here.

 

I'll just choose one because I don't feel like beating a dead horse.

 

 

From your links:

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/ideacentre/a-series/a730/

 

1549 vs Apple's 1799 gives you twice the memory on the GPU, a blu ray drive , and an i7 (vs i5).

 

I can't even upgrade to an i7 for under 2199 from Apple.

 

 

Yet you sit there and have the nerve to say they aren't more expensive.

 

Where did I say they are not more expensive?  I said, they are not MASSIVELY....MASSIVELY overpriced.  

 

That Lenovo has no Thunderbolt.  That adds to the price you know.

[adrynalyne]

Where did I say they are not more expensive?  I said, they are not MASSIVELY....MASSIVELY overpriced.  

 

That Lenovo has no Thunderbolt.  That adds to the price you know.

 

 

Well lets see....

 

Same base models (but the Lenovo has better specs):

 

1549 vs 1799:

 

250 dollars more for a name and a pretty case.

 

 

 

1549 vs 2199 to get the same CPU....

 

650 dollars difference.

 

Massively is a subjective term, but there is no question that they are considerably overpriced.

 

Thunderbolt doesn't make up for the discrepancy, sorry.

[wrack]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/20

 

Not a direct comparison but it holds well. I guess for the users of iMac it is not a bad choice.

 

^^ Source please

 

HD6750 is 2.5 year old tech.

[xWhiplash]

Well lets see....

 

Same base models (but the Lenovo has better specs):

 

1549 vs 1799:

 

250 dollars more for a name and a pretty case.

 

 

 

1549 vs 2199 to get the same CPU....

 

650 dollars difference.

 

Massively is a subjective term, but there is no question that they are considerably overpriced.

 

 

Name and pretty case?  What about the Thunderbolt?  It is not free for Apple to put that in there.  iLife is also included.  There is no "crapware" with Apple computers either.

 

I am not sure if that monitor is same quality as Apple's IPS displays.

 

Does that all add up to $650?  Probably not.  But it is not massively overpriced when you add those factors in to consideration.

 

Also, what about this?  

 

http://www.apple.com/retail/learn/one-to-one/

 

The cost for that is probably included in every Mac pricing.  Do you or I need it?  No, but chances are it is included in the Mac cost (since they have to pay their staff).

[Praetor]

I have several clients changing from Windows towers to iMacs ones; on of them i asked why the change and the management replayed to me saying that they went to look for a good screen and goods specs and they could not find a AiO that a) looked good, b) had the performance they need it and c) had OSX and could use Windows as well (bootcamp), so they could work with OSX and Windows apps if need it; the fact is that there isn't a competitor in the same segment (AiO) for the iMac. I don't question the price, since it's well know for everyone that it's somewhat overpriced... i said somewhat because, well, there isn't a competitor in reality, so Apple can overcharge :/

 

Also in the business world, i don't see any enterprise having their IT division building their own PC's; warranty (standard and extended) and service being key factors in this.

[adrynalyne]

Name and pretty case?  What about the Thunderbolt?  It is not free for Apple to put that in there.  iLife is also included.  There is no "crapware" with Apple computers either.

 

I am not sure if that monitor is same quality as Apple's IPS displays.

 

Does that all add up to $650?  Probably not.  But it is not massively overpriced when you add those factors in to consideration.

 

Also, what about this?  

 

http://www.apple.com/retail/learn/one-to-one/

 

The cost for that is probably included in every Mac pricing.  Do you or I need it?  No, but chances are it is included in the Mac cost (since they have to pay their staff).

You are grasping at straws, but feel free to live the delusion.

[xWhiplash]

You are grasping at straws, but feel free to live the delusion.

 

Yeah well whatever.  There is no convincing you guys.

 

Yeah it costs Apple $0 to build and support Thunderbolt.

 

It costs Apple $0 developing and providing iLife to new Mac users (especially with those really good Lessons they provide in Garageband).

 

It costs Apple $0 offering a free one-on-one lesson.

[The_Observer]

Well lets see....

 

Same base models (but the Lenovo has better specs):

 

1549 vs 1799:

 

250 dollars more for a name and a pretty case.

 

 

 

1549 vs 2199 to get the same CPU....

 

650 dollars difference.

 

Massively is a subjective term, but there is no question that they are considerably overpriced.

 

Thunderbolt doesn't make up for the discrepancy, sorry.

 

Model please.

[xWhiplash]

Model please.

 

He is referring to this Lenovo system:

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/ideacentre/a-series/a730/

[sundayx Veteran]

I never think you can ever do a spec-for-spec, dollar-for-dollar comparison to Apple products. I don't see other companies have the retail experience as Apple does (whether you use it or not), I don't see other companies come out with products quite like Apple does.

 

Was there such an impact as the MacBook Air when it first came out? The Sony X505 was only a niche/luxury product. Was there such an impact as the original iPhone? iPad? Was there extensive use of Multi-touch technology before the iPhone? All of these things that's pushing the industry forward, people seem to ignore.

 

Apple can do whatever they want to charge for their products. People seems to buy into it. That's also great marketing (considering also the money put into marketing).

 

Apple spends a lot of money with the right R&D and Design, and they set quite a benchmark for products of any class. You can't really compare anything without mentioning an Apple product (whether you like it or not, and whether it is comparable or not).

[Brian M. Veteran]

You are grasping at straws, but feel free to live the delusion.

You're treading a fine line here - there's no need for posts like this.

So you don't see the added value of a Mac? OK - so if you have trouble setting up your HP printer, can you call Dell to help you set it up? If you can't get your phone to sync, can you take it to a Lenovo store to have them set it up for you - free of charge? Also, when it goes wrong, can you walk into an Acer store and have them repair it on-site, often while you wait? Yes I know Dell do on-site repairs, however you have to pay a premium for that service. I'm sure HP will let you take your HP Laptop and your Sky router into one of their stores and will help you setup your wireless for free, too. Those people working in stores and support cost money too.

As for off the shelf components, beyond the CPU, GPU, HDD and AirPort card - nothing is off the shelf. It's all custom designed and engineered with an amazing amount of precision - take one look at this, and tell me, seriously, that it's any competition for any "build your own" box - http://cdn.mactrast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/27-inch-iMac-teardown.jpg - engineering to those levels costs money.

Then there's the little things, such as the cooling system, which has fans with variable blade gaps to reduce noise levels, and has custom designed heatsinks to dissipate heat using the Aluminium casing. And the SSD - is now PCI-e. If you order a fusion drive for ?160 - you get a HDD and a 128GB SSD. Now, I tried finding a 128GB PCI-e SSD with the same performance for ?160 - and failed. Best you can get in that range is SATA.

And as for the LCD - you can't compare the iMac to any cheap 27" display. If you want to do a fair comparison, then you'll have to compare it to an LG 27EA83 - which uses the exact same panel as the iMac. Or the Dell u2713 which uses the same panel as the previous gen iMacs. You'll note that these will set you back ?400 (Dell) and ?600 (LG) plus.

And I haven't even started on Software. Want disk encryption? You're going to have to go for Windows 8 Pro. Filevault is included with OS X. Want Visual Studio - prepare to give over another ?500. XCode is free with every Mac. Also - how much was a Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrade? Lion -> Mountain Lion was ?15. Soon adds up.