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#151 Arceles

Arceles

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:00

You're treading a fine line here - there's no need for posts like this.

So you don't see the added value of a Mac? OK - so if you have trouble setting up your HP printer, can you call Dell to help you set it up? If you can't get your phone to sync, can you take it to a Lenovo store to have them set it up for you - free of charge? Also, when it goes wrong, can you walk into an Acer store and have them repair it on-site, often while you wait? Yes I know Dell do on-site repairs, however you have to pay a premium for that service. I'm sure HP will let you take your HP Laptop and your Sky router into one of their stores and will help you setup your wireless for free, too. Those people working in stores and support cost money too.

As for off the shelf components, beyond the CPU, GPU, HDD and AirPort card - nothing is off the shelf. It's all custom designed and engineered with an amazing amount of precision - take one look at this, and tell me, seriously, that it's any competition for any "build your own" box - http://cdn.mactrast....ac-teardown.jpg - engineering to those levels costs money.

Then there's the little things, such as the cooling system, which has fans with variable blade gaps to reduce noise levels, and has custom designed heatsinks to dissipate heat using the Aluminium casing. And the SSD - is now PCI-e. If you order a fusion drive for £160 - you get a HDD and a 128GB SSD. Now, I tried finding a 128GB PCI-e SSD with the same performance for £160 - and failed. Best you can get in that range is SATA.

And as for the LCD - you can't compare the iMac to any cheap 27" display. If you want to do a fair comparison, then you'll have to compare it to an LG 27EA83 - which uses the exact same panel as the iMac. Or the Dell u2713 which uses the same panel as the previous gen iMacs. You'll note that these will set you back £400 (Dell) and £600 (LG) plus.

And I haven't even started on Software. Want disk encryption? You're going to have to go for Windows 8 Pro. Filevault is included with OS X. Want Visual Studio - prepare to give over another £500. XCode is free with every Mac. Also - how much was a Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrade? Lion -> Mountain Lion was £15. Soon adds up.

 

I don't want sound like I hate macs... but seriously, if all that stuff is not made by the owner of a PC... then yeah, they deserve to be charged as hell for that. (PC owner ranging from the very first computers with 386 processors)




#152 xWhiplash

xWhiplash

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 07-March 08

Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:56

You're treading a fine line here - there's no need for posts like this.

So you don't see the added value of a Mac? OK - so if you have trouble setting up your HP printer, can you call Dell to help you set it up? If you can't get your phone to sync, can you take it to a Lenovo store to have them set it up for you - free of charge? Also, when it goes wrong, can you walk into an Acer store and have them repair it on-site, often while you wait? Yes I know Dell do on-site repairs, however you have to pay a premium for that service. I'm sure HP will let you take your HP Laptop and your Sky router into one of their stores and will help you setup your wireless for free, too. Those people working in stores and support cost money too.

As for off the shelf components, beyond the CPU, GPU, HDD and AirPort card - nothing is off the shelf. It's all custom designed and engineered with an amazing amount of precision - take one look at this, and tell me, seriously, that it's any competition for any "build your own" box - http://cdn.mactrast....ac-teardown.jpg - engineering to those levels costs money.

Then there's the little things, such as the cooling system, which has fans with variable blade gaps to reduce noise levels, and has custom designed heatsinks to dissipate heat using the Aluminium casing. And the SSD - is now PCI-e. If you order a fusion drive for £160 - you get a HDD and a 128GB SSD. Now, I tried finding a 128GB PCI-e SSD with the same performance for £160 - and failed. Best you can get in that range is SATA.

And as for the LCD - you can't compare the iMac to any cheap 27" display. If you want to do a fair comparison, then you'll have to compare it to an LG 27EA83 - which uses the exact same panel as the iMac. Or the Dell u2713 which uses the same panel as the previous gen iMacs. You'll note that these will set you back £400 (Dell) and £600 (LG) plus.

And I haven't even started on Software. Want disk encryption? You're going to have to go for Windows 8 Pro. Filevault is included with OS X. Want Visual Studio - prepare to give over another £500. XCode is free with every Mac. Also - how much was a Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrade? Lion -> Mountain Lion was £15. Soon adds up.

 

Yep, exactly my point.  How exactly is Apple supposed to cover their costs developing iLife and (as you mention) XCode?  Both are "free" with a Mac.  You guys really think that costs them $0 to develop?  You better believe that the cost for those programs is included in the pricing of the product.

 

Especially Garageband.  I would say that software would be worth $200 itself.  Especially now with all of those lessons they provide.

 

Also, I just noticed this.

 

 

Well lets see....

 

Same base models (but the Lenovo has better specs):

 

1549 vs 1799:

 

250 dollars more for a name and a pretty case.

 

 

 

1549 vs 2199 to get the same CPU....

 

650 dollars difference.

 

Massively is a subjective term, but there is no question that they are considerably overpriced.

 

Thunderbolt doesn't make up for the discrepancy, sorry.

 

 

The same?!  Umm.  The iMac has a better CPU than that Lenovo.  You know that right?

 

The Lenovo one is 2.4Ghz.  The iMac one is 3.5 Ghz.



#153 PyX

PyX

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 20-December 03

Posted 02 October 2013 - 22:19

Pirates are better off buying PCs (just by $100-200 though).

Legal people can save up to thousands by buying a Mac.

 

Get me a PC guy who can compare the price of :

  • OS upgrades
  • the most popular PC antivirus, anti-malware and anti-spyware program (since technically you don't need one on the Mac)
  • the price of a high-quality amateur music editing software on PC (since the Mac comes with GarageBand)
  • the most popular programming app for mobile and desktop apps by programmers
  • the most popular editing software for music by artists
  • the most popular editing software for video by artists
  • the most popular editing software for images by artists
  • the most popular editing software for the web by artists
  • the most popular CAD app by engineers and architects
  • the most popular office suite and its whole suite of software

I have done the study myself and it killed when when I realized how OS X software is almost free next to its Windows counterparts.



#154 PyX

PyX

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  • Joined: 20-December 03

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:02

Just got it.... I'm still waiting for my 32GB of RAM to arrive, but gosh this beast is so fast... everything I do is instantaneous with the Fusion Drive.



#155 PGHammer

PGHammer

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  • OS: Windows 8 Pro with Media Center x64

Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:17

Thank you.  I said this earlier, but he conveniently skimmed over it.

 

So many people think that Apple is putting premium parts in their machines when it is the same generic stuff that other OEMs use.

Still, Apple DID begin some trends that PC OEMs are just starting to embrace.

 

Consider the iMac iSight - it broke ground by having both wired AND wireless support (in addition to, of course, the built-in webcam).  Never mind that it was an AIO desktop that ALSO included a DVD/CD-burning SuperDrive (also rare air for most non-Macs of its day) or that it came out in 2005 (Vista was still going through a recoding - based on Windows Server 2003, not XP).  Most of those same features (or improvements) are standard on every iMac today.

 

Yes - those features are appearing in Windows-based AIOs; but after how long?



#156 PGHammer

PGHammer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:30

Weird luck I guess... I've got Apple aluminium keyboards at both home and work. They get used a heck of a lot and I've had the one at home now for what must be at least 4 years - not a moments weirdness from it yet. The work one is only a year or two old, but again, no problems at all. Not doubting you at all, but just that my experience has been the opposite! 

 

Have to say they're my favourite keyboards ever. Easy to clean, reasonably resistant to food falling under the keys as they're quite flush to the chassis, quiet to type on, comfortable to use... and the added bonus of two USB ports hidden on the underside. Just an awesome design. 

Apple's keyboards DO rock - the iSight I did the mini-review on came with an Apple Pro keyboard.  However, to be honest, the single-button MightyMouse (which also came with it) biteth, and badly - even, if not especially in OS X - compared to even most wireless non-Apple pointing devices.  On my triple-boot desktop (where Mavericks is the third of three OSes  - replacing SteamOS in the rotation for now), I use the same keyboard and pointing device the other two OSes I run in the rotation do - Microsoft's Wireless Desktop 6000 V.3 and Logitech V220 Cordless.  The Apple Pro keyboard COULD replace the Wireless 6000 V.3 - IF it were cordless.  (To be honest, it's one of the few keyboards - corded or not - that could get me to willingly surrender the Wireless 6000 V. 3 - IS there a wireless version?)  However, OS X has surprisingly-solid support for both two-button mice and both three-button and two-button-with-wheel mice - the MightyMouse has neither a wheel or even a second button - let alone a third.  While the Pro keyboard smacked it out of the park, the MightyMouse was a badly-hit popup bunt - to the first baseman.



#157 Eric

Eric

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 21:42

These computers aren't new and this thread died in October. Can't we let it rest?